klipsch to B&W

[doviiman]

Anybody make the switch from Klipsch Reference to B&W? I am about to upgrade my complete klipsch Ref 3 II series music and HT system to B&W 803D or 804D, but am curious as to loss od sound. The Klipsch has two 8'' drivers and the B&W 804 diamonds only have two 6.5 inch drivers and the 803D has three 7 inch drivers. Will I really lose any mids bass by going with the 804 Diamonds. Not really worried to much about the 803D's as much, but if I end up with the 804 Diamonds could i possible me taking a step back in some sounds aspects?

[madmac]

Very interesting predicament you have there. I believe you are going a step up when moving to B&W but you may, or may not like the difference. Are your Klipsch using their famous horns for tweeters?. I have heard these horns and did not like the upper frequency presentation of them.The difference in overall sound is going to be quite substantial!!. Have you auditioned the B&W and liked them?.

It is my opinion that an 8 inch woofer will produce better bass than a 6.5 inch one (unless is a poor quality one) Also, once you go below that 8 inch threshold, you are likely going to need a powered sub to get good, deep bass. Even an 8 inch driver has it's bass limitations as far as I'm concerned. The sub you get should be at least 10 inch or bigger.

The B&W will likely produce overall better, more detailed sound however.

[doviiman]

Yes, I am actually concerned about this now. I have heard the B&W and love the sound of them, they have always been a dream speaker of mine since 1990. Granted I love my Klipsch as well, but in my quest to upgrade to a better quality sound overall is how I come to this point. Even thought its hard to say how speaker will sound once you put them in a room, i'd be really disappointed if after 10-15K in speaker upgrades, I felt that I was missing something from the speakers that I was use to having.
Yes, my Reference 3 II have the tweeter in the horn format. I am also using a velodyne DD-12 for my bass now. The funny thing is I never thought about the speaker size unitl my wife asked the difference between the 803/804/and the Klipsch. so as I proceeded to explain to her about the number of driver and sound, then the size fo the driver caught my attention. After researching all the dimension on all three speaker, the klipsch has the biggest drivers. So there lies my concern...

[stuofsci02]

I just want to confirm that the klipsch Ref 3 II were well under $1000 new correct?

[doviiman]

Yes, they were somewhere near that ball park I believe.

[stuofsci02]

Yes, they were somewhere near that ball park I believe.

I would definitely not be concerned about losing something going from the Klipsch to the B&W 804D or 803D expect the speaker sensitivity.

You have not indicated what you will use for amps etc. That would be good info. Also rooms size.

But.. Assuming all is well with the front end, IMO the B&W's are going to be head and shoulder above.. The DD-12 is also a very good sub, so even if the 804D are a little lower on bass, you should be able to make up for this with the sub.

[leo2498]

Hi I recently changed my rf-52 system to a new 804D system (804D+HTM4D+805D) and I can't believe how much sound you will get with this babys; the klipsch RF-52 have a lower bass output below 34 hz but I can tell you that tha bass of the 804D is a lot better, better picht and definition and the most important thing: solid low distortionless bass.

[madmac]

Yes, I am actually concerned about this now. I have heard the B&W and love the sound of them, they have always been a dream speaker of mine since 1990. Granted I love my Klipsch as well, but in my quest to upgrade to a better quality sound overall is how I come to this point. Even thought its hard to say how speaker will sound once you put them in a room, i'd be really disappointed if after 10-15K in speaker upgrades, I felt that I was missing something from the speakers that I was use to having.
Yes, my Reference 3 II have the tweeter in the horn format. I am also using a velodyne DD-12 for my bass now. The funny thing is I never thought about the speaker size unitl my wife asked the difference between the 803/804/and the Klipsch. so as I proceeded to explain to her about the number of driver and sound, then the size fo the driver caught my attention. After researching all the dimension on all three speaker, the klipsch has the biggest drivers. So there lies my concern...

Well....if you are looking for a change in sound, you are certainly gonna' get it going from Klipsch to B&W !!. The thing is this, we all get used to the sound of our systems and in many cases, like that sound and get used to that sound. You are hoping for better and you will likely get it with this upgrade. However, you might have to give your ears a little time to get used to this sound. I personally have heard many B&W speakers and they are good. Especially when you get into the high end stuff. The lower end B&W stuff impresses me less for the money spent.

[doviiman]

I would definitely not be concerned about losing something going from the Klipsch to the B&W 804D or 803D expect the speaker sensitivity.

You have not indicated what you will use for amps etc. That would be good info. Also rooms size.

But.. Assuming all is well with the front end, IMO the B&W's are going to be head and shoulder above.. The DD-12 is also a very good sub, so even if the 804D are a little lower on bass, you should be able to make up for this with the sub.

My plans are to start out with a used Classe 5200 to run the whole system especially if I get the 804D and HTM4D. If I get the 803D, then maybe a used rotel or bryston amp for now. due to budgets restraints

[Dmantis]

Anybody make the switch from Klipsch Reference to B&W? I am about to upgrade my complete klipsch Ref 3 II series music and HT system to B&W 803D or 804D, but am curious as to loss od sound. The Klipsch has two 8'' drivers and the B&W 804 diamonds only have two 6.5 inch drivers and the 803D has three 7 inch drivers. Will I really lose any mids bass by going with the 804 Diamonds. Not really worried to much about the 803D's as much, but if I end up with the 804 Diamonds could i possible me taking a step back in some sounds aspects?

This is a tuff question to answer from your prospective. Ok driver size really has little to do with sound quality. Loss of sound I'm curious to know exactly what you are referring to? Driver size can limit the range of what can be replayed but thats not a real concern when switching from REf3's to Diamond series B&W's.

Let me take a breath , ok basically you are going from a really nice mid line caliber speaker package to a full reference level system. Not much to compare here as they live in very different worlds. Without sounding elitist or contrary , there really isn't anything the Klipsch REF3's can do better , really nothing at all unless you want to consider easy to drive with the ability to play louder with less power , Scare you easier hence easy to drive , horn loaded throw vs a tweeter.

Keep in mind your budget restraints as Diamonds need great power and without it they will simply not perform anywhere near what they are built to do. Placement and calibration is essential with a expert level touch , again at this level of performance , you need to retain it.
Think about the room you are about to put them in. Your room plays a huge roll in how your system performs , something NO all the time treating a room will yield better results then a speaker upgrade. If your room is faulty then putting better speakers in there will probably not yield the results you are looking for.
Remember your building a system and the system consists of the room , speakers and gear driving them. Fail anywhere here and your system will suffer.
You do however have an amazing sub so bass is not an issue , get another DD-12 and you'll yield really good results.

If budget doesn't allow for the Diamonds and really good amps to drive them , then I suggest maybe stepping down to the CM series with very good amps to match. Matching is key to any system. Also another thought is to consider what size , kind and placement given upgraded speakers will live. Are the Diamonds the best choice for this room. Or will something else work better in given room?

When I spec speakers for a room , I take many things into consideration. What the customer is going to listen to on them , what size the room is , placements and seating , what are the best choices for this system etc. Engineering a system is an art and getting all the pieces in place correctly really makes a good system great.

Good luck with this interesting upgrade.

[doviiman]

Hi I recently changed my rf-52 system to a new 804D system (804D+HTM4D+805D) and I can't believe how much sound you will get with this babys; the klipsch RF-52 have a lower bass output below 34 hz but I can tell you that tha bass of the 804D is a lot better, better picht and definition and the most important thing: solid low distortionless bass.

Great, this is good information. In my heart of hearts I know the system has to sound better, but the larger driver had me curious. Do you have a picture of your system, i would love to see your setup. I actually want the same fronts as your with the 804D and HTMD4, but I will be using the in wall and in ceiling 800 series to complete the 7.1 surround sound. By the way what sub and amps are you using?

[doviiman]

This is a tuff question to answer from your prospective. Ok driver size really has little to do with sound quality. Loss of sound I'm curious to know exactly what you are referring to? Driver size can limit the range of what can be replayed but thats not a real concern when switching from REf3's to Diamond series B&W's.

Let me take a breath , ok basically you are going from a really nice mid line caliber speaker package to a full reference level system. Not much to compare here as they live in very different worlds. Without sounding elitist or contrary , there really isn't anything the Klipsch REF3's can do better , really nothing at all unless you want to consider easy to drive with the ability to play louder with less power , Scare you easier hence easy to drive , horn loaded throw vs a tweeter.

Keep in mind your budget restraints as Diamonds need great power and without it they will simply not perform anywhere near what they are built to do. Placement and calibration is essential with a expert level touch , again at this level of performance , you need to retain it.
Think about the room you are about to put them in. Your room plays a huge roll in how your system performs , something NO all the time treating a room will yield better results then a speaker upgrade. If your room is faulty then putting better speakers in there will probably not yield the results you are looking for.
Remember your building a system and the system consists of the room , speakers and gear driving them. Fail anywhere here and your system will suffer.
You do however have an amazing sub so bass is not an issue , get another DD-12 and you'll yield really good results.

If budget doesn't allow for the Diamonds and really good amps to drive them , then I suggest maybe stepping down to the CM series with very good amps to match. Matching is key to any system. Also another thought is to consider what size , kind and placement given upgraded speakers will live. Are the Diamonds the best choice for this room. Or will something else work better in given room?

When I spec speakers for a room , I take many things into consideration. What the customer is going to listen to on them , what size the room is , placements and seating , what are the best choices for this system etc. Engineering a system is an art and getting all the pieces in place correctly really makes a good system great.

Good luck with this interesting upgrade.

First off let me say, thanks you for taking the time to explain this in such detail. I really apprecaite this.
I understand the room makes a large part of the system sounding good. And yes that is also part of my plan to add acoustic panel in several areas of the room. As for the amps, yes, I have thougth about that as well. I am chosing my amps base on reviews and opinion on this fourm. Having said that, my fisrt choice the Classe 5200 if I get the 804 diamons with the HTM4D. If I get the 803D, I will look for a used Bryston or Rotel amp to push them. The deciding factor is about 7K for the front speakers. If i can find a used pair black 803D, around 7k or less, Im buying. If not then I will buy the 804D.
As for the room placement, that going to be a crap shoot once I get the speakers, because my room has a very odd shape to it.

[leo2498]

Great, this is good information. In my heart of hearts I know the system has to sound better, but the larger driver had me curious. Do you have a picture of your system, i would love to see your setup. I actually want the same fronts as your with the 804D and HTMD4, but I will be using the in wall and in ceiling 800 series to complete the 7.1 surround sound. By the way what sub and amps are you using?

Hi doviiman, my home theater you can see in this link http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gal...&folderid=6706 , my main amp is a rotel rb1582 for the fronts and for the rest i'm use a denon avr-3310 and the sub I have a cheap definitive technology while i get a new one(in my plans are velodyne optimum or a JL fathom). I am a begginer in this but after hear different amplifiers like mcintosch and other I could not hear such difference that I chose wait and save some cash to in a near future maybe get a classe CA-5300 but honestly I can't hear a big improvement like I felt with the speakers. I have the idea of the classe because a ego factor than another thing. acousticals panel will be my next move after the new tv(I just bought the samsung un55d8000). my advise for you is try to get what sound better for you ears. many people could say that speakers like this need a high end amp and special cables and a lot stuff that just break your pocket but IMHO my speaker sound very good with the rotel anyway.

[stuofsci02]

leo,

Nice equipment and setup... I really suggest adding some acoustic treatment.. Was the best thing I ever did for my 804s... Mine were DIY

Cheers

[doviiman]

Hi doviiman, my home theater you can see in this link http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gal...&folderid=6706 , my main amp is a rotel rb1582 for the fronts and for the rest i'm use a denon avr-3310 and the sub I have a cheap definitive technology while i get a new one(in my plans are velodyne optimum or a JL fathom). I am a begginer in this but after hear different amplifiers like mcintosch and other I could not hear such difference that I chose wait and save some cash to in a near future maybe get a classe CA-5300 but honestly I can't hear a big improvement like I felt with the speakers. I have the idea of the classe because a ego factor than another thing. acousticals panel will be my next move after the new tv(I just bought the samsung un55d8000). my advise for you is try to get what sound better for you ears. many people could say that speakers like this need a high end amp and special cables and a lot stuff that just break your pocket but IMHO my speaker sound very good with the rotel anyway.

Nice and clean set-up, great job. I can't wait until I am an owner of a set of B&W speakers. It look as if I will be piecing my system together part by part. If you go to the post that called 802 and room size, there are pictures of my HT room and the upgrade plans.
I also have a Denon amp, its the 4306, that I have to use as a pre to drive the Classe 5200 and drive the in-wall and ceiling speakers.

[doviiman]

leo,

Nice equipment and setup... I really suggest adding some acoustic treatment.. Was the best thing I ever did for my 804s... Mine were DIY

Cheers

Can you give me more information on how you built your own sound panels and are they as effective as going with, say panel from "Real Trap"? I am on a budget so anyting I can do myself is a great help.

[stuofsci02]

Can you give me more information on how you built your own sound panels and are they as effective as going with, say panel from "Real Trap"? I am on a budget so anyting I can do myself is a great help.

They are very easy to build.. My estimated cost is about $28 per panel. The main ingredient is 2ft x 4ft x 2" thick sheets of Owen's Corning 703. This is sometimes hard to find, I would suggest looking at insulation warehouses etc. I had to drive a hour from my house to get.

You will also need some 1"x4" pine or other wood, screws, and a fabric of your choice. The fabric should be permeable (you can test by trying to breath through it).

Here are some pictures below on how to build.. You can certainly build these other ways too.

These will work just like real traps or any other manufactures wall panels, because they use the same material or equal material. You just need to be sure the make them as thick as whatever you are looking at from real trap. The ones I built are 3.5" thick with 2" thick OC703. So there is an air gap behind the OC703.. This air gap gives it better lower frequency properties.

But in general the 2" OC 703 on its own is quite linear in absorption from 250 hz and up. And even at 125hz it still does function. Have a look at this link and look at OC703 plain in 2" thickness under the sound absorption table. Anything lower and you will need to build some bass traps...

http://commercial.owenscorning.com/assets/0/321/333/f28dc02d-7b1f-4678-b20d-6e6ae855be0c.pdf

[stuofsci02]

dovviman,

Is your room still the same as in that other thread?

Cheers,

Stuart

[doviiman]

dovviman,

Is your room still the same as in that other thread?

Cheers,

Stuart

Yes, its still the same. I had to take a break from the project when I went to Iraq.

[doviiman]

They are very easy to build.. My estimated cost is about $28 per panel. The main ingredient is 2ft x 4ft x 2" thick sheets of Owen's Corning 703. This is sometimes hard to find, I would suggest looking at insulation warehouses etc. I had to drive a hour from my house to get.

You will also need some 1"x4" pine or other wood, screws, and a fabric of your choice. The fabric should be permeable (you can test by trying to breath through it).

Here are some pictures below on how to build.. You can certainly build these other ways too.

These will work just like real traps or any other manufactures wall panels, because they use the same material or equal material. You just need to be sure the make them as thick as whatever you are looking at from real trap. The ones I built are 3.5" thick with 2" thick OC703. So there is an air gap behind the OC703.. This air gap gives it better lower frequency properties.

But in general the 2" OC 703 on its own is quite linear in absorption from 250 hz and up. And even at 125hz it still does function. Have a look at this link and look at OC703 plain in 2" thickness under the sound absorption table. Anything lower and you will need to build some bass traps...

http://commercial.owenscorning.com/assets/0/321/333/f28dc02d-7b1f-4678-b20d-6e6ae855be0c.pdf

Thanks for the information, I will look at in in detail whne I get off work.
I assume you use a diferent denisty for Bass traps? Are you using a combination if Sound panels and bass traps?
As you can see from the pictures of my room, I have limited space, but need them nonetheless

[audioqueso]

I went from Klipsch to B&W to Klipsch

I actually had a RF-5 II setup right before I made my first B&W purchase.

Here is my respond to someone else who was asking about Klipsch to B&W.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...sch#post503400 (post #5)

And the I purchased a pair of Klipsch RB-51 II for my office.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...sch#post536773 (post #3)
To be honest, I was surprised at the difference in sound quality. I had this memory in my head that the Klipsch were really great, but just not my cup of tea. So when I received my RB-51 II, I was excited about it. Yes, they sounded good in my office, but when I compared them to the 600 S3 in my bedroom, I was a bit sad to find out that the 600 S3 really sound THAT much better. Yes, it is a different sound compared to the Klipsch, but that wasn't the only difference. The amount of clarity that my 600 S3 had over the Klipsch was sad.

A few months later I tried out all 3 speakers in a very large party room. I thought the Klipsch would shine here. However, the 805 really showed that no matter how loud I played the music, the music remained just as clear and crisp.

[doviiman]

[QUOTE=stuofsci02]leo,

Nice equipment and setup... I really suggest adding some acoustic treatment.. Was the best thing I ever did for my 804s... Mine were DIY

Cheers







[/QUOTe

Wow, I just seen your set up. I could not see the pictures at work for some reason. That is nicely done. Decor is awesome as well. I would love to have that set up...

[sgtjim57]

"Wow, I just seen your set up. I could not see the pictures at work for some reason. That is nicely done. Decor is awesome as well. I would love to have that set up..."

What he said.

[leo2498]

[QUOTE=stuofsci02]leo,

Nice equipment and setup... I really suggest adding some acoustic treatment.. Was the best thing I ever did for my 804s... Mine were DIY

Cheers

Hi stoufsci02, nice set up too; yes the room treatment will be my first change but i need import to my country this panels first.

[stuofsci02]

Thanks for the information, I will look at in in detail whne I get off work.
I assume you use a diferent denisty for Bass traps? Are you using a combination if Sound panels and bass traps?
As you can see from the pictures of my room, I have limited space, but need them nonetheless

Bass traps will be built differently, but you can use the same material. Bass traps require volume of material. So if you too a whole bunch of these OC 703 and stacked them, you have a bass trap.

I still have to do my bass traps, but it is a lower priority. My room is very large 18' wide by 25'long and I have two subs which balance out the bass very well.

[stuofsci02]

Wow, I just seen your set up. I could not see the pictures at work for some reason. That is nicely done. Decor is awesome as well. I would love to have that set up...

Thanks.. It is in my basement.. I finished this room just for the HIFI

[doviiman]

Thanks.. It is in my basement.. I finished this room just for the HIFI

Impressive is an understatement.. ;x( ;x( ;x( ...

[stuofsci02]

Yes, its still the same. I had to take a break from the project when I went to Iraq.

doviiman,

I hate to be a downer, but having looked at your room pictures I really think you are fighting an uphill battle. Even with a speaker as small as the 804Di they will be right in the corner.. And even in that spot they are only a few feet from the listening position. I would really caution spending a lot of money on good equipment as I have to believe that room is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

I would suggest having the speakers at least 22" off the side wall and minimum 16" off the back wall. Then you should put your seating position in an equal triangle with the speakers..

Is it possible to get anywhere close to this?

Can you change the wall structure at the front of your room?

For me the room is more important than the speaker..

[doviiman]

doviiman,

I hate to be a downer, but having looked at your room pictures I really think you are fighting an uphill battle. Even with a speaker as small as the 804Di they will be right in the corner.. And even in that spot they are only a few feet from the listening position. I would really caution spending a lot of money on good equipment as I have to believe that room is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

I would suggest having the speakers at least 22" off the side wall and minimum 16" off the back wall. Then you should put your seating position in an equal triangle with the speakers..

Is it possible to get anywhere close to this?

Can you change the wall structure at the front of your room?

For me the room is more important than the speaker..

No Worries about being a downer :T This has been my biggest issuse since wanting to upgrade.
My wall are a big issues the way their designed/ come it. I considered trying to push the wall back, but there is a support beam that runs supports the roof line that would require a major modiication to the structrual design, so changing the wall is not an option. At best I would have to try the 804D with some sound panels in hopes that it sound better than the current klispsh set up.
My two options are push back or remove the stage under the screen completely and place the speakers in front of the screen off to the sides, and if thats to restrictive for viewing, place them in the corner at an angle. Either way its not idea, but hopes that I get a better sound than I already have.

[stuofsci02]

[QUOTE=leo2498]

leo,

Nice equipment and setup... I really suggest adding some acoustic treatment.. Was the best thing I ever did for my 804s... Mine were DIY

Cheers

Hi stoufsci02, nice set up too; yes the room treatment will be my first change but i need import to my country this panels first.

Leo,

Where are you from?

[stuofsci02]

No Worries about being a downer :T This has been my biggest issuse since wanting to upgrade.
My wall are a big issues the way their designed/ come it. I considered trying to push the wall back, but there is a support beam that runs supports the roof line that would require a major modiication to the structrual design, so changing the wall is not an option. At best I would have to try the 804D with some sound panels in hopes that it sound better than the current klispsh set up.
My two options are push back or remove the stage under the screen completely and place the speakers in front of the screen off to the sides, and if thats to restrictive for viewing, place them in the corner at an angle. Either way its not idea, but hopes that I get a better sound than I already have.

I notice that you have two couches.. Why not remove the front couch? This would give you the space you need to bring the speakers out and away from the walls...

[madmac]

They are very easy to build.. My estimated cost is about $28 per panel. The main ingredient is 2ft x 4ft x 2" thick sheets of Owen's Corning 703. This is sometimes hard to find, I would suggest looking at insulation warehouses etc. I had to drive a hour from my house to get.

You will also need some 1"x4" pine or other wood, screws, and a fabric of your choice. The fabric should be permeable (you can test by trying to breath through it).

Here are some pictures below on how to build.. You can certainly build these other ways too.

These will work just like real traps or any other manufactures wall panels, because they use the same material or equal material. You just need to be sure the make them as thick as whatever you are looking at from real trap. The ones I built are 3.5" thick with 2" thick OC703. So there is an air gap behind the OC703.. This air gap gives it better lower frequency properties.

But in general the 2" OC 703 on its own is quite linear in absorption from 250 hz and up. And even at 125hz it still does function. Have a look at this link and look at OC703 plain in 2" thickness under the sound absorption table. Anything lower and you will need to build some bass traps...

http://commercial.owenscorning.com/assets/0/321/333/f28dc02d-7b1f-4678-b20d-6e6ae855be0c.pdf

The perfect home theater setup with the center nicely on plane with the main's!!!. Very nice!!! :T

[leo2498]

[QUOTE=stuofsci02]

Leo,

Where are you from?

stuofsci02 I'm from Colombia and it's hard get the material for DYI.

[doviiman]

I notice that you have two couches.. Why not remove the front couch? This would give you the space you need to bring the speakers out and away from the walls...

Actually there are three reclining chairs in front and one sofa in the back row on a build up platform. Yes, I have considered this as well, but because it primarly a HT room for a family of 5 then after hours secondly my man cave for listeing to music and cold beverages :B , i kind of have to leave the three chairs.

[stuofsci02]

Actually there are three reclining chairs in front and one sofa in the back row on a build up platform. Yes, I have considered this as well, but because it primarly a HT room for a family of 5 then after hours secondly my man cave for listeing to music and cold beverages :B , i kind of have to leave the three chairs.

I figured as much... Family ruining the dream :W

[doviiman]

I figured as much... Family ruining the dream :W

Yep, that give and take relationship...

[Briz vegas]

What sort of sound do you like? We know you like Jazz, are there aspects of your speakers that you would not sacrifice (I am suspecting you will say the bass).

The 804 is known for its clean bass, I read at the time I purchased my 804s that the bass drivers had less than 10% distortion at reference volumes, "which for a floor standing speaker is very low" was the quote in the review. What that means is that you get tight and accurate bass; that typically gives the impression of less bass. I say typically because I have found that this impression varies depending on your setup. I even find that jumping between Audirvana and Pure Music playback software on my MAC changes the bass balance, although each has its merits so I bounce between the two depending on my mood.

Unless you are a detail freak I think you are on the right track with the 803D. You have lots of amp with the Classe, and they need alot. 804D has a very delicate and detailed sound. 803D will do a better job of convincing you that the double bass is right there in the corner of your room. They should also have no problem delivering the slap on strings and the resonance of the instruments body. In my experience its these nice characteristics that start to emerge in spades as you refine your system over time- it just sounds more and more like a real double bass or sax or whatever (its the drug of this hobby if you get hooked like I did).

Mind you, 803D will also scream out for good bass traps. The more bass you have the more you need to control it, both in terms of electronics and room.

I heard a "great" bass demo at a audiophiles house. Speakers were big Vivids, amps were big Audio Research monoblocks, and the bass on Massive Attack just rolled around his untreated room like a bull in a china shop - impressive, but awful (and he knew it). The room was clearly overloaded to the point where all you could hear was this rolling bass. That is not going to happen with 804, but 803 is a different matter.

With the 804s alone I pretty much didn't get any bass to speak of until I installed bass traps, so they have multiple roles.

[doviiman]

What sort of sound do you like? We know you like Jazz, are there aspects of your speakers that you would not sacrifice (I am suspecting you will say the bass).

The 804 is known for its clean bass, I read at the time I purchased my 804s that the bass drivers had less than 10% distortion at reference volumes, "which for a floor standing speaker is very low" was the quote in the review. What that means is that you get tight and accurate bass; that typically gives the impression of less bass. I say typically because I have found that this impression varies depending on your setup. I even find that jumping between Audirvana and Pure Music playback software on my MAC changes the bass balance, although each has its merits so I bounce between the two depending on my mood.

Unless you are a detail freak I think you are on the right track with the 803D. You have lots of amp with the Classe, and they need alot. 804D has a very delicate and detailed sound. 803D will do a better job of convincing you that the double bass is right there in the corner of your room. They should also have no problem delivering the slap on strings and the resonance of the instruments body. In my experience its these nice characteristics that start to emerge in spades as you refine your system over time- it just sounds more and more like a real double bass or sax or whatever (its the drug of this hobby if you get hooked like I did).

Mind you, 803D will also scream out for good bass traps. The more bass you have the more you need to control it, both in terms of electronics and room.

I heard a "great" bass demo at a audiophiles house. Speakers were big Vivids, amps were big Audio Research monoblocks, and the bass on Massive Attack just rolled around his untreated room like a bull in a china shop - impressive, but awful (and he knew it). The room was clearly overloaded to the point where all you could hear was this rolling bass. That is not going to happen with 804, but 803 is a different matter.

With the 804s alone I pretty much didn't get any bass to speak of until I installed bass traps, so they have multiple roles.

I listen to a varied range of music, Jazz, R&B/rap, Rock/Alternative and a lot of foriegn music I have collected from my career being in the Navy, from India to Japan.
Yes, I love bass, and sometiems feel my klipsch lacked mid bass and clarity from a music aspect. From a movie stand point, they were great and provided loudiness.
My fear, in going to the 804Di is that I get the clarity for music, still don't get the mid bass. As for the 803Di, I think they would be the ultimate speaker, but my room set-up (see 802D and room size thread) may not allow me to get the best placement for a speaker of that size, which will hender the output as well. I am kind of in a pickle of wanting an upgrade system for music and HT, but maybe not having the idea space for it. This sucks...

[Dmantis]

I listen to a varied range of music, Jazz, R&B/rap, Rock/Alternative and a lot of foriegn music I have collected from my career being in the Navy, from India to Japan.
Yes, I love bass, and sometiems feel my klipsch lacked mid bass and clarity from a music aspect. From a movie stand point, they were great and provided loudiness.
My fear, in going to the 804Di is that I get the clarity for music, still don't get the mid bass. As for the 803Di, I think they would be the ultimate speaker, but my room set-up (see 802D and room size thread) may not allow me to get the best placement for a speaker of that size, which will hender the output as well. I am kind of in a pickle of wanting an upgrade system for music and HT, but maybe not having the idea space for it. This sucks...

I'm sorry to read that but I have to agree , if you don't have the proper space , your upgrade will not really be one. If we all just had dedicated rooms of perfect size for all our toys....