Nautilus 801 amplifier recommendation

[tanwn]

i am currently using a humble rotel rb1090 to power my old N801. I would like to upgrade to a 2nd hand Classe 2 channel amp or any suitable brand (bryston etc) that would not break the bank. Can someone recommend a good classes 2 channel power amp? I would prefer at least 380W and above.

[sgtjim57]

Not classe but I am sure a pair of Emotiva XPA-1's (500w mono) would do a fine job of providing amplification and you could save yourself a huge amount of money to spend on music ect. $999 each with free shipping and a 5 year warranty plus 30 days in home trial period.

[mjb]

From Classé, your choice would be between a CA-2200 (200w/ch) or a pair of CA-M400 (400w/ch). Unfortunately for you, they both tend to hold a good used price.

[tanwn]

what about the old CA-400 classe?

[mjb]

what about the old CA-400 classe?

CA-401? This is from an older series, but still no doubt an excellent amp if you can find one secondhand.
Check Classés other discontinued models too.

[Dmantis]

This might spark some interest . I prefer Bryston over Classee.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/bry...st-mono-blocks

[Antus]

bryston 4bsst is good enough for N801. unless u have a huge room, i wonder anyone need more power than that.

one more thing, u will need to check ur preamp and see if it's powerful enough to drive the amp to full potential. a regular receiver's preamp section can only output 1V max to power amp. 1V is not going to be enough for amp like 4Bsst.

[Pedro]

In my opinion from many reviews and myself experiences I had the best choices are the Krell FPB600cx or EVO 600e followed by the EC Nemo amps. They are expensive but will load completely your speakers. The N801s are very difficult to drive because the large 15in bass driver and the low impedance curve they have reaching 3ohms. The amps must handle high current at low impedances!

[Pio]

Not classe but I am sure a pair of Emotiva XPA-1's (500w mono) would do a fine job of providing amplification and you could save yourself a huge amount of money to spend on music ect. $999 each with free shipping and a 5 year warranty plus 30 days in home trial period.

+1 on the Emotiva's - keep hearing more and more great things about those.

You need a lot of current for B&W's especially the big 801. Another option that wont break the bank is a used Sunfire Signature, thing puts out 1,200 watts into 4 ohms - and it partners very well with the Nautilus B&W's.

Sometimes I use my Signature Sunfire instead of the JC1's and I have to tell you, to my ears, they are very close....

[wkhanna]

My advice is to try PewterTA’s mod to the 1090 before spending significant $ on anything else. It is V simple and transformative.

Even in its stock form, I would call it many things. Least of all would be ‘humble’. :W

[bigburner]

tanwn, I agree with Bill. The RB1090 is not humble when we're talking about the grunt required to drive your N801s well. I'm not sure about that suggested mod, but I'm a well known sceptic.

I'm also with sgtjim57 and Pio with regards to the Emotiva XPA-1. I can tell from my XPA-2 that its bigger brother would be even better. The XPA-1 probably offers 10% less refinement than the big name brands - and looks a bit industrial - but it comes at a fraction of the price.

Horses for courses I guess.

Nigel.

[PewterTA]

I have the instructions together for the simple mods to be done to the 1090. I would say it's on par with the classe 2200 now that I'm said and done with it (just a lot of solder work). My RSP-1098 & RB-1090 sound almost identical to CP-800 & CA200. At least to my ears there was not much difference that I could perceive...and that's with my Rotel having my modified B&W600 series and the classe having the 802Ds & Diamonds hooked up.

Don't get me wrong, the 802s made a very nice difference, but there was so much similarities between the Classe and Rotel it was really scary how close my system sounds.

It's enough for me to say I'm just upgrading to the 802Diamonds and forgetting the classe gear (for now). Course I'd like to go modify the Classe amp... hee hee!!!

Even when I modified Bill's 1090, I gave him my modified 1080... after a day of listening he didn't want the 1090 back because the 1080 sounded so much better (minus a slight loss in the low end)...but once he got the 1090 back and there was NO change in sound and more power in the low end... I don't think he'd have kept the 1080 after all.

And for what it's worth, I had the Emotiva XPA-1s for about a week or so and in my honest opinion they aren't much different than the 1090 and I think the 1090 is a little more musical, the emotiva were slightly more "sterile or clinical" sounding. Rotel beat them with some warmth to the sound.

Now that was before I modified the RB-1090... now that I have the 1090 modified I think I'd probably end up saying there's even more of a gap now.

If you're around the Pittsburgh area, I'll gladly modify the amp for you... takes about 3 or 4 hours that's it... but hit me up if you want the instructions on how to disassemble and modify all the connections inside. I can shoot you the .docx file and as soon as I find where all the pictures are I'll post a thread with everything.

[tanwn]

I have the instructions together for the simple mods to be done to the 1090. I would say it's on par with the classe 2200 now that I'm said and done with it (just a lot of solder work). My RSP-1098 & RB-1090 sound almost identical to CP-800 & CA200. At least to my ears there was not much difference that I could perceive...and that's with my Rotel having my modified B&W600 series and the classe having the 802Ds & Diamonds hooked up.

Don't get me wrong, the 802s made a very nice difference, but there was so much similarities between the Classe and Rotel it was really scary how close my system sounds.

It's enough for me to say I'm just upgrading to the 802Diamonds and forgetting the classe gear (for now). Course I'd like to go modify the Classe amp... hee hee!!!

Even when I modified Bill's 1090, I gave him my modified 1080... after a day of listening he didn't want the 1090 back because the 1080 sounded so much better (minus a slight loss in the low end)...but once he got the 1090 back and there was NO change in sound and more power in the low end... I don't think he'd have kept the 1080 after all.

And for what it's worth, I had the Emotiva XPA-1s for about a week or so and in my honest opinion they aren't much different than the 1090 and I think the 1090 is a little more musical, the emotiva were slightly more "sterile or clinical" sounding. Rotel beat them with some warmth to the sound.

Now that was before I modified the RB-1090... now that I have the 1090 modified I think I'd probably end up saying there's even more of a gap now.

If you're around the Pittsburgh area, I'll gladly modify the amp for you... takes about 3 or 4 hours that's it... but hit me up if you want the instructions on how to disassemble and modify all the connections inside. I can shoot you the .docx file and as soon as I find where all the pictures are I'll post a thread with everything.

Dear Pewter,

Really appreciate if you could send me instructions on how to mod my rb-1090. I am quite handy and have removed the internal parts myself to replace the thermistor. I agree with those whom mentioned that emotiva sounded a bit clinical as i have tried xpa2 and found the rotel to be more suited to the B&W. Really do not want to upgrade my amp unless i can find a really good 2nd hand deal classe. Currently i don't really find anything amiss with my rotel rb-1090 and N801 match as it is able to give the extended bass and control with a neutral treble. Just wandering if upgrading to a 400W classe will give more slam! And also am I doing justice to the N801 with my rotel. tan6655b@hotmail.com

[wkhanna]

If by ‘slam’, you are referring to dynamic transient, or the ability of an amplifier to transition from V quiet to V loud V quickly without sounding like it is bottlenecked and waiting for the current in the wall socket to get to the speakers, I have little doubt the ‘ample’ reserve power readily available from the 1090 is not up to the task. Very few amps will be able to deliver more raw instantaneous power. Those that can will not be had in the under $3k realm, new or used, IMHO.

What Dan’s mod will provide is cleaner, more taut and precise bass that on first impression may actually be misconstrued as less bass. In actuality, and after a short period, you will find the low end quality to posses less ‘boom’, more precision, be more musical with tonal definition and a character that sounds more like live music. The midrange will sweeten especially with vocals and strings, and the top end will be cleaner with less grain, more detail and a shimmer that catches you looking for the real cymbals that surely must be in your room.

Sound stage and depth are maintained while focus is slightly improved.

These observations are based on listening to both my system and Dan’s before and after the mod with no other variables added to the mix.

As always, IMHO YMMV.

[bigburner]

Just wandering if upgrading to a 400W classe will give more slam!

Are you referring to a CA-401? I'd really like to give one of those a trial! Look at the size and weight of it. Makes the 1090 and my XPA-2 look like toys.

Nigel.

[madmac]

If by ‘slam’, you are referring to dynamic transient, or the ability of an amplifier to transition from V quiet to V loud V quickly without sounding like it is bottlenecked and waiting for the current in the wall socket to get to the speakers, I have little doubt the ‘ample’ reserve power readily available from the 1090 is not up to the task. Very few amps will be able to deliver more raw instantaneous power. Those that can will not be had in the under $3k realm, new or used, IMHO.

What Dan’s mod will provide is cleaner, more taut and precise bass that on first impression may actually be misconstrued as less bass. In actuality, and after a short period, you will find the low end quality to posses less ‘boom’, more precision, be more musical with tonal definition and a character that sounds more like live music. The midrange will sweeten especially with vocals and strings, and the top end will be cleaner with less grain, more detail and a shimmer that catches you looking for the real cymbals that surely must be in your room.

Sound stage and depth are maintained while focus is slightly improved.

These observations are based on listening to both my system and Dan’s before and after the mod with no other variables added to the mix.

As always, IMHO YMMV.

Wow...really well said!!. That's exactly what good audio should sound like!! :W

[tanwn]

thanks for all the response. I will still keep my RB-1090 even if in future i manage to get a reallly good deal 2nd hand classe ca-400/401. I was just wondering whether i have been doing justice to my N801 all this while (7yrs or more) and if upgrading to say a classes ca-401 would give me an even faster transient snap or slam in the woofer department at high speaker volume. I am currently very happy with RB-1090 and can definitely live with it forever but i hope to see a huge giant like a classe ca-401 sitting beside the n801 and even if it only offers 5% improvement , I like the big size looks could kill image.

[wkhanna]

Your only hope. ;x(

Of course, you will need two of them. :W

[PewterTA]

I sent you the instructions, sorry I haven't been on.

Do the mod to the 1090... then find your classe amp and demo it... I'm betting you won't get the classe....

Modifying the 1090 makes it awefully hard to justify the better Classe amps...it's a lot of money (difference wise) and you'll be surprised at how close they'll sound in the end.

if you want better, I think you need to move towards what Bill said or go for the Bryston 14SST2 PRO.... 600watts should help!

[Skyblue]

While I am a great believer in trying things out, I am however sceptic to the claim that simple tweaks can improve amps to way beyond their (price) league. Don't you think that classe hav a number of talented audio engineers on staff? Don't you think Rotel does?

I am fairly certain that both companies have that, AND a solid amount of marketing people to boot in order to nsure that their products are priced very near what the market will value them at.

Now, in rare cases, I suppose a simple tweak would come up. In general no. But do try it out. In the end its your ears and your money, and who knows, it just might work out.

[PewterTA]

The Classe CA-M600s would be almost identical to the Bryston and Titan...so one could easily get that. When getting up to that price range though...I think you really need to hear things in your own system.

I would've been all for McIntosh until I heard McIntosh and didn't like the sound at all...felt like I missed soo much detail and the PRaT just wasn't there.

I very much wanted to be completely blown away by how much better Classe was over my Rotel amp...and instead, as I listened to Classe on the 802Diamonds and my Rotel on DM604s3s) I kept thinking, "Wow...my Rotel/B&Ws are really darn close to this sound!"

But I also thought, to be fair, if I did the same thing to the Classe Amps...how much better then would the classe & B&Ws sound!

I'm saying that Rotel and Classe are both "voiced" similarly. When you make the changes to the RB-1090 amp... it brings it closer to the same thing that Classe is putting out. Now are they identical... no, I can tell the Classe has a slightly smoother sound than the Rotel...but all the detail and about 90% of the power is there.

So I'm just saying before one goes out and jumps right up, if they are willing to modify... you can be impressed with the changes that happen. My B&W DM604s3 sound more like the 700 series with everything I've done to them (if not almost exactly)... So it can't really hurt (well if you don't damage what you're trying to modify).

I think most people would be pretty darn surprised at how close they are vs. how far away. Then at that point... the price is a huge factor.

Modifying a MSRP $3K amp can sound very similarly to a $5K (well $10K due to monoblocks) of the CA-M300... so you'd need to get the CA-M600s ($14K) to get a much better sound. At that point does one spend the money or not that depends on what a person has to spend.

[tanwn]

dear pewter, i am glad that you have provided good info on how to tweak the rotel to make it improve. As much as i like to believe you, but your comparison between classe/802diamond and rotel / dm604s3 i seriously doubt the dm604/rotel in the same room will sound similar / better then the classe / 802 diamond period! The matrix and marlan head nature of 802 diamond alone will trounce the dm604s3 in the tightness and boominess of the bass anytime anywhere. Anyway thanks for the rotel instructions.

[wkhanna]

Skepticism is healthy. It is the enemy of charlatans.

However, presumption is the enemy of truth.

When Dan & I described our observations when he simply upgraded the internal wire and substituted the mechanical factory spade connection to the drivers (both price point driven) with hand soldered connections on his speakers, many were skeptical. Which is fine by me. But not one of all those who protested our report as biased or somehow flawed ever actually tried it.

Reminds me a bit of the Emperor's tailors :W

link to metaphor

[PewterTA]

Ohh I agree, there's differences. The clarity in the marlan head, the micro details in the highs with the diamond tweeter and 4 magnet setup, and the power in the bass and quickness of the rohacell driver can not be produced by my 604s and not at any point did I say that mine did that.

which all of these is why I'm pretty certain the 802Diamonds will be here soon btw.

However...beyond those differences, my speakers sound close to the same in tonality, voicing, imaging, 3D depth. It's all very similar, the 802Diamonds are just that step up in revealing things.

The BIGGEST difference was how the 802Diamonds disappear in the sound stage, to me, it sounds like no sound comes from the speakers themselves. Mine can not really do that at all and the synergy between all the drivers sticks out. 802Diamonds have some of the best synergy between all the drivers I've ever heard. The 802Ds (model before Diamonds) didn't even have these characteristics, they did have a much bigger sound stage though.

I wasn't trying to give a comparison on the speakers by the way. I was just trying to showcase the fact that I listened to the classe with better speakers and the Rotel with "not even close" speakers and was just shocked by the amount of similarities vs. the lesser amount of differences.

Plus, I'm finding more and more I have a more open mind about things than many do apparently, where I'll give things a chance and try things that "can't possibly be" and sometimes, yeah, there is no way. Then other times I'm just very pleasantly shocked. But for me, it's all about the adventure and figuring out what I like and how I want and can make my system sound better to me!