801D or new 800 Diamond?

[Antonkk]

Hi everyone! It's been a while. I parted with my 802Ds half a year ago, since my Mac 6900 never did them any justice and they never got to sing in my system. Since then I uprgaded my electronics to all top of the line Electrocompaniet system - EMC-1 UP Cd player, 4.8 pre and NEMO monoblocks but instead of B&W I got myself a mint pair of JBL 250 Ti's. They are great speakers for sure but a bit too tall for my living room which causes some noticeble problems and while the sound is very good I miss a lot of things about B&W's as well (diamond tweeter first of all). Sure this time with NEMOs (it's pretty cool to have an amp that can drive ANYTHING) the idea is IF I return to B&W I will go straight to the top which means B&W 800 Diamond but my heart longs for the big fat 801D. The promlem of course is that it's nowhere to be seen even of used market anymore but let's pretend it's available (at least I hope one day a pair shows up) - how does it compare to 800 Diamond? Did anyone make any SERIOUS A/B tests?

[Skyblue]

I think its a room issue. As I understand it, the 801D's are more perfect speakers, but require a perfect big room. 800diamonds are more forgiving, in the sense that the base is rolled off, allowing them to sound good under more normal conditions.

[wettou]

800 Diamond sing, love them :T

[Kal Rubinson]

I think its a room issue. As I understand it, the 801D's are more perfect speakers, but require a perfect big room. 800diamonds are more forgiving, in the sense that the base is rolled off, allowing them to sound good under more normal conditions.

That's why I add a sub. :W

[Antonkk]

I think its a room issue. As I understand it, the 801D's are more perfect speakers, but require a perfect big room. 800diamonds are more forgiving, in the sense that the base is rolled off, allowing them to sound good under more normal conditions.

I never knew that 800 has a rolled off bass! 802's bass was certainly not good enough for my room. My room is certainly less than perfect - one speaker stands right next to the window pane and partially next to the glass door to the balcony.

[Skyblue]

I never knew that 800 has a rolled off bass! 802's bass was certainly not good enough for my room. My room is certainly less than perfect - one speaker stands right next to the window pane and partially next to the glass door to the balcony.

Then 801's are probably not for you. But as you mentioned you did upgrade the amp since then. Interestingly the new 802 had fine bass with just a 100 watt amp. That too could be a room issue.

[Pedro]

Dear Antonn,

Could you tell your room size? Depending the size would be possible to fit the 801D. I´ve heard the old 800D and It didnt compare with 801D not just in the bass aspect but the fact they were less musical and a bit more analytical. From the reviews I have been reading about currently 800 Diamond series especially from the new 800D they are less forgiving than the previous series, and that makes me less inclined to upgrade my 801D to a new 800Diamond.

If your room has enough space go with 801D and you wont be dissapointed. I´ve noticed you need/like bass and that´s the way to go

[wettou]

To each his own 800 Diamonds sing........

[Antonkk]

Dear Antonn,

Could you tell your room size? Depending the size would be possible to fit the 801D. I´ve heard the old 800D and It didnt compare with 801D not just in the bass aspect but the fact they were less musical and a bit more analytical. From the reviews I have been reading about currently 800 Diamond series especially from the new 800D they are less forgiving than the previous series, and that makes me less inclined to upgrade my 801D to a new 800Diamond.

If your room has enough space go with 801D and you wont be dissapointed. I´ve noticed you need/like bass and that´s the way to go

Pedro, I have a big room, it's an open studio of over 40 sq. meter BUT I'm limited strictly to 3,7 meter wide listening zone with the window pane on one side and a column between the speakers and the sofa on another side. If I move the speakers wider the column will block the right speaker entirely. So the maximum that I can give my speakers is 233 cm between the speaker's centers in case of 801 (or my current JBL 250 Ti) or 235-237 cm in case of 800. The 802 didn't were just fine in my room and I always felt that 800 will not make a big visual difference.

[Antonkk]

[Skyblue]

That's why I add a sub. :W

I have as well. It wouldn't think it would be necessary with speakers that expensive... Mind you my amps are cheap, so perhaps thats the problem.

[Antonkk]

That's why I add a sub. :W

So you find the 800 Diamonds to lack bass? Really?

[Kal Rubinson]

That's why I add a sub. :W

So you find the 800 Diamonds to lack bass? Really?

Did you miss the smiley? Seriously, I do not use the sub because of a lack of bass extension but, rather, because the positions I choose for best imaging with the three 800Diamonds result in modal peaks in the low bass. Rerouting the sub-45Hz to a strategically placed and EQ-ed sub permits the bass to be extended and smooth.

[Antonkk]

Well, it looks like one of the local stores still has a pair of 801's. Before I call them - how CRITICAL is the small distance between the window pane and the side of the speaker for 801? Didn't affect my 802's much but since they were slimmer the distance was bigger.

[quan325i]

I honestly think it's really hard to beat the 801D for the money. They were the reason I own their older brothers, the 801N, for the last 5 years. I've been to CES, Audio Show and listened to a wide range speakers from $500/pair to $150K+/pair (the YG flag ship). Given the proper power, they will sing like you wouldn't believe. I was not aware of the 801N potential until I upgraded from the MC501 to the Krell 650mc.

QN

[Pedro]

I second you. I´ve listened to many other expensive speakers, and none of them gave me the same satisfaction and complete sound of 801D. Plus they are very friendly with any type of amplification, and as the old N801 they like the bigger krells. They never sound analytical or clinical with those amps. I´ve listened them with hybrid gears and I must confess these beasts do a better job with full SS electronics.

[Antonkk]

Pedro, what's the distance between the centers of your 801 speakers? It's weird that in most photos the 801's are positioned closer to each other than 800's. Wonder if they don't require such a big distance between them.

[Pedro]

Nowadays they´re still 1,5 meter away from each other (really too much close). But for the new room they will be one meter from each wall and 3 meters away. Then I shall have a good image and soundstage. As I´ve said , from my experience, maybe the most important is the distance between you and the speakers. I had many improvements sitting at least 3-4 meters away them. You will feel much more the bass wich usually isnt felt when you sit close to them.

[Antonkk]

Nowadays they´re still 1,5 meter away from each other (really too much close). But for the new room they will be one meter from each wall and 3 meters away. Then I shall have a good image and soundstage. As I´ve said , from my experience, maybe the most important is the distance between you and the speakers. I had many improvements sitting at least 3-4 meters away them. You will feel much more the bass wich usually isnt felt when you sit close to them.

You mean just 1.5 meters between cabinets or between the centers of the drivers? I mean my 802's sounded like crap with a distance less then 225 cm between the centers of the drivers. As for the distance between me and the speakers that's my least problem. 4 meters easily. What really concerns me is the distance between the left speaker and the window pane (15-20 cm or something) though I guess I can cure that sonically with a fat curtain.

[buggerhead]

Well, it looks like one of the local stores still has a pair of 801's. Before I call them - how CRITICAL is the small distance between the window pane and the side of the speaker for 801? Didn't affect my 802's much but since they were slimmer the distance was bigger.

Wow, thats impressive. Guess they are too nice to get rid of. Where in the world are you living?

[Antonkk]

Wow, thats impressive. Guess they are too nice to get rid of. Where in the world are you living?

Oh I bet the store will love to get rif of 801's for the price which is actually higher than their retail! They know they have the last pair in Russia so they simply wait for the desperate 801 hunter. I live in Moscow so the speakers can be easily delivered but I have some reservations.

[Antonkk]

I decided to pass on the cherry 801's (I like my speakers black plus the price is outrageous) so I guess I'll have to settle for 800 Diamonds. What's really concering me is that on every picture that I see they stay SO insanely far apart from each other, 3 meters minimum. Can they even play decently at the normal 802 distance? I mean 230-235 cm between the centers of the drivers?

[stuofsci02]

I would be concerned about space.. 2.3 meters is nothing for a big speaker.. I have my 804s a shade over 3 meters apart..

[wettou]

Did you miss the smiley? Seriously, I do not use the sub because of a lack of bass extension but, rather, because the positions I choose for best imaging with the three 800Diamonds result in modal peaks in the low bass. Rerouting the sub-45Hz to a strategically placed and EQ-ed sub permits the bass to be extended and smooth.

THREE 800Diamond yes my dream only one to go :T What do you use for surround.

[Kal Rubinson]

THREE 800Diamond yes my dream only one to go :T What do you use for surround.

Currently, 804S.

[Antonkk]

I would be concerned about space.. 2.3 meters is nothing for a big speaker.. I have my 804s a shade over 3 meters apart..

Well, 3 meters sounds like an overkill for any speaker I can think of, except maybe for JBL 4350. To me the perfect balance of width and focus lies somewhere between 230 and 250 cm. Most 802 and 801 set ups that I saw are positioned in that range. My 802's certainly sounded good with 235 between them. It's the 800's that in many pics are rather far from each other.

[stuofsci02]

Well, 3 meters sounds like an overkill for any speaker I can think of, except maybe for JBL 4350. To me the perfect balance of width and focus lies somewhere between 230 and 250 cm. Most 802 and 801 set ups that I saw are positioned in that range. My 802's certainly sounded good with 235 between them. It's the 800's that in many pics are rather far from each other.

Well, to each their own. I have tried both and my preference is to have them 10ft apart with about 10 ft to my listening position.



Cheers..

[DeepEndX]

Nice setup stuofsci02. Very clean.

When I had my N801's, I had them 3.5 meters apart. N801s dynamics were amazing when I turned it on LOUD.

[Antonkk]

I wonder if B&W themselves have any "golden rules" regarding the 800 series speakers distance between themselves.

[stuofsci02]

Nice setup stuofsci02. Very clean.

Thanks!

[stuofsci02]

I wonder if B&W themselves have any "golden rules" regarding the 800 series speakers distance between themselves.

Yep.. See the manual for the 802D

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Downloads/Product/Manual/ENG_FP29505_802-Diamond_manual.pdf

They recommened 1.5 - 3.0 meters..

[Antonkk]

Yep.. See the manual for the 802D

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Downloads/Product/Manual/ENG_FP29505_802-Diamond_manual.pdf

They recommened 1.5 - 3.0 meters..

Well, that's a rather broad rule, don't you think? Sure closer than 1,5 they will sound like crap and wider they will sound weird. I'm talking about the perfect distance for each model.

[stuofsci02]

Well, that's a rather broad rule, don't you think? Sure closer than 1,5 they will sound like crap and wider they will sound weird. I'm talking about the perfect distance for each model.

Well alot will depend on the room and listening distance..

The general rule of thumb is to create an equal triangle with your seating position and the speakers..

But closeness to room boundaries will dictate position as much as anything.

I always try to keep the distance from the side walls different then the rear walls.. If they are both 0.5 meters for example, it will amplify the same frequency. I am currently 1 meter from the back walls and 0.8 meter from the side walls.

Also you don't want to be backed against a wall in your sitting position. That was my old problem before I built my listening room in the basement. Now I have 12 feet behind me and it is awesome.

So what is the biggest equal triangle you can make while avoiding those issues?

[Antonkk]

Well alot will depend on the room and listening distance..

The general rule of thumb is to create an equal triangle with your seating position and the speakers..

But closeness to room boundaries will dictate position as much as anything.

I always try to keep the distance from the side walls different then the rear walls.. If they are both 0.5 meters for example, it will amplify the same frequency. I am currently 1 meter from the back walls and 0.8 meter from the side walls.

Also you don't want to be backed against a wall in your sitting position. That was my old problem before I built my listening room in the basement. Now I have 12 feet behind me and it is awesome.

So what is the biggest equal triangle you can make while avoiding those issues?

Well, as I said the biggest distance that I can give 800s is probably 240 between the centers of the speakers. But from my experience with 802's the triangle rule was far from the best option. They worked best with only a slight toe in and approximately 3,5-3,8 meter distance between the drivers and my ears. The room is 7 meters deep so I have plenty of space beyond me, it's not a problem.

[stuofsci02]

That is surprising.. I have never heard a speaker where sitting so far back given the speaker spacing has produce good results..

I have listened to the new 802Di and the old 801D and both were equal triangle setups..

[Skyblue]

Well, if you spend around $20k on a hifi system, then do spend an hour or 2 to experiment with placement.

.. Unless of course, you can make the $20k in less time.

... Then hire someone..