801D - Ugly?

[Kal Rubinson]

If you flip 16 pages in the hardback brochure you will see on the right page the Mondorf M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor. On the left page is the crossover network showing this capacitor and two M-Cap Supremes. On the same page at the top is a small picture of the base of the 800D plinth where the crossover is mounted.

If you did read TAS then you would have seen the article that mentions the different capacitors used throughout the new 800 Series where the 800D employs the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold and M-Cap Supremes while the rest are using M-Cap Supremes and/or M-Caps.

Well, I do not read TAS but I did see what you referenced in the B&W book where, of course, no discussion of any differences between the component selection among the models is noted. I will have to go to B&W for clarification.

Kal

[PavelL]

Well, I do not read TAS but I did see what you referenced in the B&W book where, of course, no discussion of any differences between the component selection among the models is noted. I will have to go to B&W for clarification.

Kal

what was it you Kal said about different tonal balance among the three models namely 800, 801 and 802? Could the fact that the woofers are playing into the midband alone explain the "superiority" some find with 800D's mids? :scratchhead: Still the X-over components' part must be clarified with B&W. My original thinking was that ALL the "D" suffixed models had crossover components superior to those of "S" models...

[Kal Rubinson]

what was it you Kal said about different tonal balance among the three models namely 800, 801 and 802?

Dunno. Don't recall ever addressing this issue.

Still the X-over components' part must be clarified with B&W. My original thinking was that ALL the "D" suffixed models had crossover components superior to those of "S" models...

I thought so too.

Kal

[RebelMan]

Well, I do not read TAS but I did see what you referenced in the B&W book where, of course, no discussion of any differences between the component selection among the models is noted. I will have to go to B&W for clarification.

Remember my comment about the diamond tweeter? A lack of information from one source does not invalidate the information found in another. The brochure and the white paper discusses the technology primarily used in the 800D, some of which applies to the rest of the new 800 Series models. Most people also don't realize that the previous 800's (the 800N and the S800) were using technologies that the rest of their corresponding lines weren't, namely the neodymium magnets used in the FST drivers. It wasn't until the release of the new 800 Series that this technology found its way down the line.

You could always just pop off the bottom plate of your crossover housing and see for yourself. I am sure you'll find it much easier to do then spiking!!! :B

[PavelL]

Rebelman, what is TAS anyway? Any links available? I'm not ready to buy 3 pairs of 800, 801 and 802 just to pop open x-over plynths. Why did you mention B&W brochure in the first place when it does NOT give any indication of differences between the "D" models? I don't get it. Now the magnets used in N800s? Is your point "800D is better 'cause there must be something superior anyway. there always was"? :scratchhead:

[Kal Rubinson]

Remember my comment about the diamond tweeter? A lack of information from one source does not invalidate the information found in another. The brochure and the white paper discusses the technology primarily used in the 800D, some of which applies to the rest of the new 800 Series models. Most people also don't realize that the previous 800's (the 800N and the S800) were using technologies that the rest of their corresponding lines weren't, namely the neodymium magnets used in the FST drivers. It wasn't until the release of the new 800 Series that this technology found its way down the line.

Yes. I am aware of that scenario.

You could always just pop off the bottom plate of your crossover housing and see for yourself. I am sure you'll find it much easier to do then spiking!!! :B

Even easier is an email to B&W.

Kal

[PavelL]

Yes. I am aware of that scenario.

Even easier is an email to B&W.

Kal

but how about getting an answer from them? they are GENERALLY supportive though often it goes something like "sorry, but NO measurements outside our R&D..." hence all the speculation.

[Kal Rubinson]

but how about getting an answer from them? they are GENERALLY supportive though often it goes something like "sorry, but NO measurements outside our R&D..." hence all the speculation.

I know but I was not going to make a general inquiry. I do know some people there. In any case, I will see them at CEDIA next week.

Kal

[RebelMan]

Rebelman, what is TAS anyway? Any links available? I'm not ready to buy 3 pairs of 800, 801 and 802 just to pop open x-over plynths. Why did you mention B&W brochure in the first place when it does NOT give any indication of differences between the "D" models? I don't get it. Now the magnets used in N800s? Is your point "800D is better 'cause there must be something superior anyway. there always was"? :scratchhead:

TAS is The Absolute Sound magazine. The B&W brochure "shows" the special crossover network that is used in the 800D, not what's in the 801D or the 802D and so on. In the brochure B&W comments on the first-order networks employed and briefly discusses the selection process of the crossover components for the new series. However, they do not explicitly state which components went into which units. It wasn't until I read the article in TAS that cleared some of these details up. They state the 800D is unique in that it is the only one to use the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor for the all important midrange section of the crossover network. The reference to the brochure was only meant to visually point this capacitor out which can very easily be overlooked.

The reference to the FST magnets was used to illustrate that some technologies are reserved for only the top of the line models. In the case of the previous Nautilus and Signature 800 Series it was only the N800 and the S800 that received special treatment to their midrange drivers. I am suggesting that B&W is repeating this pattern with the 800D but with the selection of capacitors. The TAS article also hints at other improvements found in the 800D that are not identified in the rest of the new series but these are still a mystery to me.

[RebelMan]

Even easier is an email to B&W.

Sometimes. :W

[RebelMan]

I know but I was not going to make a general inquiry. I do know some people there. In any case, I will see them at CEDIA next week.Kal

Hopefully they will be the right people to ask, like the engineers that worked on the 800 Series. :B

[Kal Rubinson]

Hopefully they will be the right people to ask, like the engineers that worked on the 800 Series. :B

To be sure. :B

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

Still the X-over components' part must be clarified with B&W. My original thinking was that ALL the "D" suffixed models had crossover components superior to those of "S" models...

I asked John Taylor at B&W's CEDIA booth about this explicitely and he said that the crossover component selection (not necessarily the values) were identical across the entire D-series and that they all used the highest quality/precision from the selected lines.

BTW, I also asked about the varying degrees of play in the attachment of the Marlan heads, about which he was moderately surprised. As far as the 802D is concerned (asked because one of my three is looser than the other two), he suggested removing the upper woofer driver and tightening the nut that fixes the mounting stud. He also warned that, because of the matrix bracing, it will require using small tools in close quarters.

Kal

[PavelL]

mission accomplished THANK YOU Kal ;x(

[RebelMan]

mission accomplished

Not necessarily! I PMed Kal for more specifics. Waiting to hear what he says.

[Kal Rubinson]

Not necessarily! I PMed Kal for more specifics. Waiting to hear what he says.

YOu should know by now.

Kal

[RebelMan]

YOu should know by now.

Kal

The answers are too vague. Do you have political aspirations Kal? :lol:

[Kal Rubinson]

The answers are too vague. Do you have political aspirations Kal? :lol:

I am not witholding anything. They are the answers I was given. They satisfy my curiosity about this relatively minor issue.

Kal

[RebelMan]

TAS was very specific about the use of the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor being used ONLY for the midrange crossover in the 800D. Unless someone, like John Taylor explicitly states this capacitor was used for all D models or someone with enough ambition to pop open the bottom of their 802D crossover plate can verify this, the jury is still out. While I believe what you (Kal) are saying and what they told you the answer is far too vague. Like I mentioned in my PM to you their selection of parts does not imply implementation. Not so minor in my opinon.

Aldo, when you replaced your binding posts on your 802D do you recall seeing the "M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold" capacitor? The key words to look for are "Silver/Gold" imprinted on the capacitor.

[Kal Rubinson]

He said they used the same M-Cap Supremes in all. He did not say Silver/Gold but he did say they were the same and all of the highest spec. Short of surgery, that's all I can contribute.

Kal

[PavelL]

selection of parts does not imply implementation. Not so minor in my opinon.

that reminds me... there was this Tchibo German coffee ad on Russian television that went something like "we pick only the best coffee beans" A dressed-up WHITE man shown picking coffee beans :rofl: A Russian comedian later added about where the rest of the beans end up... :W

[Kal Rubinson]

Like I mentioned in my PM to you their selection of parts does not imply implementation. Not so minor in my opinon.

I missed this line but PavelL pointed it out. What can you be implying? There are three parameters I see: circuit topology, selection of parts, value of parts. What do you mean by "implementation?"

Kal

[RebelMan]

What can you be implying? There are three parameters I see: circuit topology, selection of parts, value of parts. What do you mean by "implementation?"

B&W has "selected" M-Cap, M-Cap Supreme and M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitors to be used in the 800 Series line. This does not imply that they are using (implementing) all three types of capacitor in all of the D and S models. The 800D uses all three capacitors. The specific question I would like to have seen answered would have been "Is the 800D the only model that uses the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor?"

[Kal Rubinson]

B&W has "selected" M-Cap, M-Cap Supreme and M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitors to be used in the 800 Series line. This does not imply that they are using (implementing) all three types of capacitor in all of the D and S models. The 800D uses all three capacitors. The specific question I would like to have seen answered would have been "Is the 800D the only model that uses the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor?"

Well, I guess, it depends on what you mean by the words "same" and "identical" which were the ones I used in my questions and the ones which were affirmed back to me. I wish I could offer more.

Kal

[RebelMan]

I wish I could offer more.

Thanks Kal, but I think you sufficiently covered it all. I consulted my B&W source and it was physically confirmed that the 802D, 801D and 800D do in fact share the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor and like you previously stated, they only vary in value. So there we have it, finally.

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks Kal, but I think you sufficiently covered it all. I consulted my B&W source and it was physically confirmed that the 802D, 801D and 800D do in fact share the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor and like you previously stated, they only vary in value. So there we have it, finally.

Whew! I am relieved (and gratified).

Kal

[PavelL]

Thanks Kal, but I think you sufficiently covered it all. I consulted my B&W source and it was physically confirmed that the 802D, 801D and 800D do in fact share the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor and like you previously stated, they only vary in value. So there we have it, finally.

So what DID TAS say about capacitors on the 800D? M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold used on the mid driver TOO?

[thaile88]

Awesome look man!

they are nice in the difference way from the 800 and 802.

[wettou]

Thanks Kal, but I think you sufficiently covered it all. I consulted my B&W source and it was physically confirmed that the 802D, 801D and 800D do in fact share the M-Cap Supreme Silver/Gold capacitor and like you previously stated, they only vary in value. So there we have it, finally.

This is good, I always wonder if I was missing anything, My next upgrade will be these after the kids are out of College and I still have any $$ left

[sg2]

Hi,

For what it's worth, you can see pictures of my 802D's underwear (including closeups of filter caps) here : http://s.guillard.free.fr/802D_ptfe_feet/

To my understanding, the filters are essentially the same in the 80xD line, the only thing that might differ is the bass low pass, but the medium bandpass and tweeter highpass sections are identical (components & topology) for the 800D, 801D and 802D.

Regards,
--
Stéphane

[cug]

In my mind, the single 15" woofer just looks slightly disproportionate.

Slightly? You really said SLIGHTLY?

You're not alone. :B

I love the look of the 802D and 800D. But even more I like the smaller ones (804S, 805S) but they have obvious disadvantages due to cabinet size.

PS: Hmm, tried to delete the comment after seeing that I didn't want to comment an oooooold post here, but there seems to be no way to delete a posting?!

[RebelMan]

Hi,

For what it's worth, you can see pictures of my 802D's underwear (including closeups of filter caps) here : http://s.guillard.free.fr/802D_ptfe_feet/

To my understanding, the filters are essentially the same in the 80xD line, the only thing that might differ is the bass low pass, but the medium bandpass and tweeter highpass sections are identical (components & topology) for the 800D, 801D and 802D.

Regards,
--
Stéphane

This is an old and outdated thread. Updates/corrections have been posted elsewhere. (Sorry Kal, the confirmation I got at the time was not completely accurate.) The capacitors in the 800D are unique and special. The 802 does share the MCaps for bass and the MCap Supreme Silver/Gold for the tweets but the midrange in the 802D uses an inferior MCap in it's make up. The 800D ONLY uses MCap Supreme and MCap Supreme Silver/Gold for the midrange and tweets. The crossover network is a considerable step up in the 800D and in the auditioning room.

[Marco Lisi]

This is good, I always wonder if I was missing anything, My next upgrade will be these after the kids are out of College and I still have any $$ left

These are real beauties!!! I've had the opportunity to listen to them on a afternoon some time ago. But how do you relate the sonic performance of these Nautili in comparison to the 800D? Big difference is ofcourse active versus passive system...

:T

[wettou]

These are real beauties!!! I've had the opportunity to listen to them on a afternoon some time ago. But how do you relate the sonic performance of these Nautili in comparison to the 800D? Big difference is of course active versus passive system... :T

So would you say that the Nautilus sounded better ie closer to live performance?