800 Diamond series

[beden1]

Yeah.. I don't think the HTM4Di + 804Di is a bad match at all (especially if HT is secondard).. But if HT is the priority, it could certainly be better...

I used to have the HTM4s with my 804s and there wasn't really much wrong with it, until I got my HTM3s.. There was definate gains with the HTM3s. I think the same is true with the Di series as well... I know B&W indicates now that the HTM4Di is a match to the 804Di, but I think it is more from a lack of other options..

IMO, the HTM4D is a much, much more capable speaker than either the HTM4 ot the HTM3. The comparison is not even close.

[stuofsci02]

IMO, the HTM4D is a much, much more capable speaker than either the HTM4 ot the HTM3. The comparison is not even close.

It depends on what you want out of the speaker.. But I don't know how you can say the comparison is not close.. Perhaps between the HTM4s and HTM4Di.

The HTM4Di vs. the HTM4s and HTM3s is the same as comparing the 805Di vs. the 805s vs. the 804s.

The 805Di is definately noticeably better then the 805s there is no doubt, so I would give you that the HTM4Di is better then the HTM4s. But is the new 805Di better then the 804s? For sure it is in the treble region and perhaps airyness, but it is not when it comes to range and overall soundstage.

With the HTM4Di you are giving up the FST midrange, which means that the midrange will not match anything other then the 805Di.

[mpauline]

It depends on what you want out of the speaker.. But I don't know how you can say the comparison is not close.. Perhaps between the HTM4s and HTM4Di.

The HTM4Di vs. the HTM4s and HTM3s is the same as comparing the 805Di vs. the 805s vs. the 804s.

The 805Di is definately noticeably better then the 805s there is no doubt, so I would give you that the HTM4Di is better then the HTM4s. But is the new 805Di better then the 804s? For sure it is in the treble region and perhaps airyness, but it is not when it comes to range and overall soundstage.

With the HTM4Di you are giving up the FST midrange, which means that the midrange will not match anything other then the 805Di.

So if I go with the 803Di or for that matter the 804Di I should really go for the HTM2Di for the best timbre match. Ouch because that center is very expensive. I know what you are thinking...it is the most important speaker for home theater.

[mpauline]

I think that depends on the scale of your room and where you'll be sitting. I have 804Ds either side of my display and I couldn't be more pleased for both music and movies. I personally prefer the phantom center compared to vocals coming from below the screen and it's less clutter in a smallish room.

Room is only 11 feet wide so that is one of the reasons that I thought of running without a centre channel. That and the fact that I could spend more on the mains that way.

[beden1]

So if I go with the 803Di or for that matter the 804Di I should really go for the HTM2Di for the best timbre match. Ouch because that center is very expensive. I know what you are thinking...it is the most important speaker for home theater.

I think that would be a total waste of money. Do yourself a favor and listen to the two of them along with the floor standing speakers and let your ears make the decision.

[beden1]

It depends on what you want out of the speaker.. But I don't know how you can say the comparison is not close.. Perhaps between the HTM4s and HTM4Di.

The HTM4Di vs. the HTM4s and HTM3s is the same as comparing the 805Di vs. the 805s vs. the 804s.
The 805Di is definately noticeably better then the 805s there is no doubt, so I would give you that the HTM4Di is better then the HTM4s. But is the new 805Di better then the 804s? For sure it is in the treble region and perhaps airyness, but it is not when it comes to range and overall soundstage.

With the HTM4Di you are giving up the FST midrange, which means that the midrange will not match anything other then the 805Di.

Huh? 8O

[stuofsci02]

Huh? 8O

The HTM4Di is basically and 805Di, the HTM4S is basically and 805 and the HTM3S is meant to be a 804s (although it is not ported). All as close as they could possibly make it.

So I am saying that at the very best you would expect the HTM4Di to sound like an 805Di..

[mpauline]

I think that would be a total waste of money. Do yourself a favor and listen to the two of them along with the floor standing speakers and let your ears make the decision.

Will have to find somewhere else to audition because the store I auditioned all the speakers at have way more B&W floor product than most but don't have the HTM2D to listen to. The HTM4D sounded good to me. Maybe a little restrained compared to the 803Di's.

By the way I will definitely let my ears do the final test. Thanks to everyone for giving me their different opinions.

[stuofsci02]

So if I go with the 803Di or for that matter the 804Di I should really go for the HTM2Di for the best timbre match. Ouch because that center is very expensive. I know what you are thinking...it is the most important speaker for home theater.

Well, it is clear that Beden1 and I disagree, but what you said above is IMO correct. In general between 65-75% of a movies sound track comes through the center speaker. So it stands to reason that this is speaker should be up to the task.

Now, if you want to do phantom center, then this is ok, but keep in mind that it really only works for a person sitting dead center in the sweet spot. Also, if your focus is really on HT I think you would be making a mistake... For movies I would rather go without rears then without a center if I am not sitting dead center.... But if you watch movies by yourself, then it could be a very good solution.

Cheers

[londoner]

Room is only 11 feet wide so that is one of the reasons that I thought of running without a centre channel. That and the fact that I could spend more on the mains that way.

That's a very similar width to my room. I have 55" Sony between two 804Dis. Sofa is relatively close in and TV is on a stand so looking at middle of screen when sitting.

I don't find the sweet spot as narrow as people are claiming here and can watch happily from the side of sofa or even from chair off to the side. Maybe it's because 804Dis are good at imaging and vocals are very clear.

Phantom center clearly doesn't work for some people but there's a lot that I like about it
* vocals are projected as if from middle of the screen - I personally find speaker below the screen in a small room quite distracting
* TV can be an a stand that can easily be moved backwards and forwards to make the image size really big for widescreen films or push back for something less immersive or to be out of way when listening to music
* there's less clutter and funds can be concentrated on main speakers

It should be quite easy for you to get your dealer to demonstrate phantom center. I'd try with speakers you plan to get as I suspect the quality of imaging makes a big difference as to whether it works.

[madmac]

Well, it is clear that Beden1 and I disagree, but what you said above is IMO correct. In general between 65-75% of a movies sound track comes through the center speaker. So it stands to reason that this is speaker should be up to the task.

Now, if you want to do phantom center, then this is ok, but keep in mind that it really only works for a person sitting dead center in the sweet spot. Also, if your focus is really on HT I think you would be making a mistake... For movies I would rather go without rears then without a center if I am not sitting dead center.... But if you watch movies by yourself, then it could be a very good solution.

Cheers

You have hit the nail squarely on the head here!. Today's modern DD, DTS both regular and HD versions are NOT made to be displayed without a center channel speaker. If you are getting good gear for HT, you seriously owe it to yourself to buy the biggest and best center speaker you can afford.....above ALL else. Leaving that speaker out is simply a crime against a good home theater!!.......a true CRIME!! :E

[madmac]

Madmac I think that it was just age. This sub is 10 years old. Decided to fix myself. Just ordered the driver from B&W North America for $150. With taxes, shipping, and exchange should come in at about $225. Better than buying a new sub at this point.

Good for you!!. You saved a pile of money doing it yourself too. Now, screw that driver in good and tight!!! :T

[Rod#S]

I agree totally. I am now going to listen to the 802Di's to see if the jump from an 803Di is worth it. If I did that I would have to go without a center and do the phantom thing.

Be careful with the phantom center. I gave that a try before taking the plunge into the Diamond series and hated it. It just didn't work well enough, for me anyways. A new person to home theater who had never listened to a complete surround system wouldn't know what they were missing but if you have been running a HT system for years with a center you will know something just isn't right. I found the dialog didn't phantom properly all the time (sometimes it was perfect sometimes embarrasingly bad), there were issues with volume between dialog, music and sound effects with the dialog getting completely lost in the mix. So my my word of advice, try the phantom center setup for at least a week, just do what I did, with your current setup tell your receiver/SSP that you don't have a center and run it like that for at least a week and see what you think.

[htsteve]

Room is only 11 feet wide so that is one of the reasons that I thought of running without a centre channel. That and the fact that I could spend more on the mains that way.

My acoustically treated HT room is 11 feet wide as well. I have 802D's and the HTM2D up front. They are pretty awesome. I wouldn't let that size concern you.

Since your concern is HT, I would look at the front three as a single issue to be resolved.


Hope this helps.

[mpauline]

Be careful with the phantom center. I gave that a try before taking the plunge into the Diamond series and hated it. It just didn't work well enough, for me anyways. A new person to home theater who had never listened to a complete surround system wouldn't know what they were missing but if you have been running a HT system for years with a center you will know something just isn't right. I found the dialog didn't phantom properly all the time (sometimes it was perfect sometimes embarrasingly bad), there were issues with volume between dialog, music and sound effects with the dialog getting completely lost in the mix. So my my word of advice, try the phantom center setup for at least a week, just do what I did, with your current setup tell your receiver/SSP that you don't have a center and run it like that for at least a week and see what you think.

Funny that you say that because about two months ago I sold my HTM1 in preparation for my upgrades. Two weeks later I went out and bought an old Mirage MCsi because I found it strange listening to movies without the center. I guess I have been just fooling myself thinking of such a plan so that I could buy the 802Di. After all doesn't everyone have Marlin Head envy ;x(

[mpauline]

My acoustically treated HT room is 11 feet wide as well. I have 802D's and the HTM2D up front. They are pretty awesome. I wouldn't let that size concern you.

Since your concern is HT, I would look at the front three as a single issue to be resolved.


Hope this helps.

Hey Steve I bought your HTM1 a number of years ago from Paragon and then almost bought your 804S's. In this upgrade I really want to just buy the maximum LCR speaker package that I can afford. I put some money away for this and I know that it will get used on other things if I don't use it now. I think I will be tapped out when I buy 803Di's and the HTM2Di. Especially given the fact that I probably next need to change my amps.

Interesting that some don't think it necessary to go with the HTM2Di with the 803Di.

I am even tempted to abandon the new Diamonds and try and find the front set up that you have. Unfortunately it is very hard to find the HTM2D on the used market.

[Rod#S]

Funny that you say that because about two months ago I sold my HTM1 in preparation for my upgrades. Two weeks later I went out and bought an old Mirage MCsi because I found it strange listening to movies without the center. I guess I have been just fooling myself thinking of such a plan so that I could buy the 802Di. After all doesn't everyone have Marlin Head envy ;x(

lol... I hear ya. I love the look of my 802 Diamonds. Would you consider doing what I did? I went for the HTM2 Diamond first. Once that was paid off I then got my 802 Diamonds. For me though the 804 Diamonds or 803 Diamonds were never even a consideration for my mains, I had fallen in love with the look of the 802D and 800D speakers years ago and wouldn't have been happy with either the 804 Diamond or 803 Diamond no matter how good they sounded. I also never liked the look of the 801D, I always felt it looked to fat. I felt like crying when everyone got confirmation that the HTM1D was not being updated to the new gen Diamond line.

The trouble now is I'm so happy with my 802s I'm having a really really hard time considering anything other than another pair of 802s as my surrounds :E

[mpauline]

l
The trouble now is I'm so happy with my 802s I'm having a really really hard time considering anything other than another pair of 802s as my surrounds :E

LOL. If I did that I would be living in a van down by the river.

[htsteve]

In this upgrade I really want to just buy the maximum LCR speaker package that I can afford.

I agree. That's a good plan. It's the approach I took in putting funds into the 802D/HTM2D combo. I eventually addressed the rears. But get the most LCR you can get.

I think you have center channel options with the 803Di. But when you go to 802Di's, the HTM2Di is the choice there.


Hope this helps.

[scanido]

Will have to find somewhere else to audition because the store I auditioned all the speakers at have way more B&W floor product than most but don't have the HTM2D to listen to. The HTM4D sounded good to me. Maybe a little restrained compared to the 803Di's.

By the way I will definitely let my ears do the final test. Thanks to everyone for giving me their different opinions.

From a guy that's spent countless hours deciding between my next set of speakers and auditioning the new line; if you decide on the 803Di then the logical choice for center is the HTM2Di. You will be most happiest pairing it this way, especially since you alluded that HT will primarily be used. If your already spending this much coin, do it right with the best speaker pairing!

803Di - Htm4Di if your primarily in music and occasionally in multichannel.

[Rod#S]

LOL. If I did that I would be living in a van down by the river.

but think of the sound system in that van :B

[mpauline]

Bought the 803Di and HTM2Di. Wow I cannot wait until I get them.

[stuofsci02]

Did you get them from Regency?

[dukester]

Bought the 803Di and HTM2Di. Wow I cannot wait until I get them.

Congrats on the upgrade. Initially i was about 60/40 2ch/HT, now its more like 90/10 due to how good they sound (as you already know). That said, they sound just as good in HT...and the HTM2Di compliments them perfectly.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the 803Di's will expose weak links in your system; from source recordings to pre-amp to amp. With the continued help of many folks here, and after a few more upgrades, i've found a pretty good set-up and I'm confident you will as well. Enjoy! :T

[mpauline]

Did you get them from Regency?

Yes I did. Spent a couple of hours there listening to the 802Di And 803Di with everything from Mozart to Pearl Jam. John was really excellent to deal. He never made me feel like my constant requests to switch speakers nor seemingly endless questions about soundstage were becoming tiring.

[stuofsci02]

Yes I did. Spent a couple of hours there listening to the 802Di And 803Di with everything from Mozart to Pearl Jam. John was really excellent to deal. Hedid not ever make me feel like my constant requests to switch speakers nor seemingly endless questions about soundstage were becoming tiring.

Yes. I really like John. Before I bought my Chord amp Ilwent there at least 3 times for about 3 hours each time. He always had the amps warmed up and was happy to switch them over and over. Great store, with excellent inventory.

[Rod#S]

Bought the 803Di and HTM2Di. Wow I cannot wait until I get them.

Congrats! When do they get delivered?

[mpauline]

Maybe next weekend. The order will not go in until Tuesday so hopefully will arrive at the store by Friday.

[mpauline]

Yes. I really like John. Before I bought my Chord amp Ilwent there at least 3 times for about 3 hours each time. He always had the amps warmed up and was happy to switch them over and over. Great store, with excellent inventory.

Should be really interesting how different the 803Di's sound in my home theater. I think the Chord CD player that John was using is worth $8000 or more. A little different than the OPPO 95 I am using. Plus his Chord amps and preamp must be over $20,000. That is the hard part about auditioning the Diamond series with such great equipment and then thinking how it will sound with my mid-fi equipment.

[Skyblue]

Dont worry too much

[Pedro]

I also never liked the look of the 801D, I always felt it looked to fatounds :E

Well you gotta listen before judge. There are many weird speakers over there, but you have to know their sound to know if worth or not especially for your taste. You might find a better sounding speaker with ugly profile, why not? That´s very bad judging equipment without listening.

[Rod#S]

Well you gotta listen before judge. There are many weird speakers over there, but you have to know their sound to know if worth or not especially for your taste. You might find a better sounding speaker with ugly profile, why not? That´s very bad judging equipment without listening.

I should have qualified my statement better, I wasn't commenting on it's sound, just it's appearance. Like you mention there are indeed a lot of spectacular sounding speakers out there that look odd shall we say. I'm a shallow guy I guess because no matter how good a speaker might sound if I think it looks ugly I wouldn't have it For example if someone were to give me a pair of 801Ds or say any of the Wilson speakers (even the mighty Wilson Alexandria X-2 Series 2) I would promptly sell or trade in on something else, the 801Ds would quickly go towards a pair of 800 Diamonds and the Alexandria, well, that would go towards a pair of Focal Grande Utopia EMs as an example.

[stuofsci02]

I should have qualified my statement better, I wasn't commenting on it's sound, just it's appearance. Like you mention there are indeed a lot of spectacular sounding speakers out there that look odd shall we say. I'm a shallow guy I guess because no matter how good a speaker might sound if I think it looks ugly I wouldn't have it For example if someone were to give me a pair of 801Ds or say any of the Wilson speakers (even the mighty Wilson Alexandria X-2 Series 2) I would promptly sell or trade in on something else, the 801Ds would quickly go towards a pair of 800 Diamonds and the Alexandria, well, that would go towards a pair of Focal Grande Utopia EMs as an example.

The 801D looks a lot better in person.. It is quite impressive.. But it would not look good in a small room.. It needs space... I thought about them for my room 18' wide by 24' long. Too late now unless I go used..

[stuofsci02]

Should be really interesting how different the 803Di's sound in my home theater. I think the Chord CD player that John was using is worth $8000 or more. A little different than the OPPO 95 I am using. Plus his Chord amps and preamp must be over $20,000. That is the hard part about auditioning the Diamond series with such great equipment and then thinking how it will sound with my mid-fi equipment.

Yeah.. The Chord stuff is really nice.. But don't sell your Oppo 95 short.. I took all my gear to his store last year to find out where my big next upgrade should be.. I compared the Chord to my Oppo 83SE and it was better for sure, but not leaps and bounds better. For me the Chord pre-amp was a bigger difference..

But at the end of the day it is all cumulative.. A little better here and there makes a lot of difference when it is all together..

But if you a sticking stricktly to HT, then IMO a good powerful amp is key...
Something tells me however, that you are going to be doing more two channel then you think :W

[Pedro]

For example if someone were to give me a pair of 801Ds or say any of the Wilson speakers (even the mighty Wilson Alexandria X-2 Series 2) I would promptly sell or trade in on something else, the 801Ds would quickly go towards a pair of 800 Diamonds and the Alexandria, well, that would go towards a pair of Focal Grande Utopia EMs as an example.

But man, If those odd could sound better than the better look ones would you still trade? I am sorry my friend but the importance you´re giving to look isnt right. I do agree the look is important but can´t be more than the sound. Example I love my 801D sound and also their look, but I wont never trade for the old 800D which even looking a little bit better they dont sing as much as the 801D from my experiences.

Give yourself more listenings you´ll understand the importance of sound over any look especially under a blind test hehe

[madmac]

Should be really interesting how different the 803Di's sound in my home theater. I think the Chord CD player that John was using is worth $8000 or more. A little different than the OPPO 95 I am using. Plus his Chord amps and preamp must be over $20,000. That is the hard part about auditioning the Diamond series with such great equipment and then thinking how it will sound with my mid-fi equipment.

You can hook up a ghetto blaster to good speakers and they will sound good!! :T

[Rod#S]

But man, If those odd could sound better than the better look ones would you still trade? I am sorry my friend but the importance you´re giving to look isnt right. I do agree the look is important but can´t be more than the sound. Example I love my 801D sound and also their look, but I wont never trade for the old 800D which even looking a little bit better they dont sing as much as the 801D from my experiences.

Give yourself more listenings you´ll understand the importance of sound over any look especially under a blind test hehe

Honestly I would still sell or trade to get something that equaled the speakers I didn't like the look of. I would just never be content looking at something I don't like to look at It would of course be slightly different if say the speakers were permanently hidden behind an acoustically transparant screen and I never had to look at them but when the speakers dominate a room they have to be pleasing for me to look at.

To a lesser extent I'm facing a similar thing for my surrounds. Logic dictates between the 803 Diamonds and 802 Diamonds the 803 Diamonds are more than enough to get the job done but I just love the look of the marlan head of the 802 so I'm giving very serious thought to just swallowing the additional cost to get the speaker I like the look of more. I actually really like the look of the 803 and 804 it's just they don't have that awe factor of the look of the 802 and 800 for me.

[Pedro]

Thank God, I never faced a serious problem with the look. I can think one is more beautiful than the other but I never took that to make any decision. I think most audiophiles put the sound in the first place and that´s what really matters to me no matter how odd they look. I learned to like a speaker by its sound not by its look, my passion goes to the music and sound. I can tell you, when I was a newbie I really looked at many speakers like you and thought "I would never buy N802 wtf are those clown heads hehe", but then my passion with sound started growing each more and today only music and sound matters to me. And so as that I am not giving too much importance to mch listening.

Regard to your surrounds, well I´d go for 804Di at most, unless your room is too big. I´ve seen many greatest mch setups and just those richier went to all 802D or 800D. Most didnt care using different speakers design, at least if they werent in the same series coz you got to have all them using similar drivers, tweeters etc...

[Rod#S]

I'm the same way with guitars, it's got to look the part as well as sound the part. I'm just unwilling to sacrifice one for the other, there are just so many options out there in speakers and guitars, etc. that a sacrifice should never have to be made to get what your eyes, ears and heart desire within your budget.

I've scratched the 804 Diamonds off the list because they are to short for rears, they would work for surrounds but I'm going to want identical speakers for both positions. This hobby can be oh so cruel sometimes

[Pedro]

Good luck my friend.

For now I´m just enjoying the sound my 801Ds, I dont miss anything and didnt have to sacrifice anything: my ears and eyes are 100% satisfied . The Krell Evo 600e amps have just arrived days ago and I must upgrade the rest of the system using Royal signature Siltech cables and top source/pre, playing on an exclusive stereo listening room For HT/mch I got another exclusive room with CM series and hell do I need more? For now I dont think so :B

B&W "If music matters"

[Rod#S]

My dealer started carrying the Siltech cables a few months ago, very nice cables. The 801Ds must really sing with the Evo 600e's, those amps are worth more than my 802 Diamonds.

Having 2 dedicated rooms must be nice. I would love to be able to have a dedicated 2 channel room with 800 Diamonds powered by Bryston 28B-SST squared amps. Oh well, one can always dream.

[mpauline]

You can hook up a ghetto blaster to good speakers and they will sound good!! :T

LOL! I came home and listened to the audition CD's on my current speakers. What a dramatic difference. It is going to be a real pleasure to listen to the 803Di's in my home in the next week or so. I am also eagerly anticipating what the HTM2Di will sound like because the center I am currently using is really getting on my nerves. The dialogue intelligibility is so poor on my Mirage MCsi compared with the HTM1 that I sold. So the HTM2Di should be stellar.

[Rod#S]

You should love the HTM2Di, mine is crystal clear without being sharp and has excellent bass extention for a dedicated center. I have mine currently crossed over at 70Hz. Initially I had it set to 60Hz but I got some clipping when watching Tron Legacy on Blu-ray so I raised it up to 70Hz. That was the only title clipping occurred on and I haven't had a problem since going to 70Hz. I would prefer to be able to set the crossover to match my 802Di's but that can't really be done with the HTM2Di, I would need a HTM1D to handle the 50Hz crossover used on my 802Di's.
What surprised me the most about the HTM2Di is it's ability to blend so well and keep pace with the 802Di's on multichannel music, it does a wonderful job so mated with a pair of 803Di's I suspect you'll be grinning from ear to ear

[Rod#S]

... The Krell Evo 600e amps have just arrived days ago and I must upgrade the rest of the system using Royal signature Siltech cables and top source/pre, playing on an exclusive stereo listening room ...

Dang, I was just checking the prices of the Royal Signature, I joked that your Krell amps are worth more than my 802 Diamonds, lol, depending on length and the model in the range your cables are too A person could buy a nice car for the price of the Emperor II's let alone the Emperor Crown and Emperor Double Crown.

[DeepEndX]

Pedro, EVO 600e's with your 801D must have some crazy bass! I remember when I had the N801, I used to take off the grills of the N801 while playing 1812 Overture SACD. The woofer extended close to 1-2 inches from the sitting position during the canon blast.