distortion problem

[stevek]

hey guys i hope some one can help me with this.i have cm9 cmc2 hooked up to a onkyo tx sr605" temporarily" and a denon3312 out for repair do to these issues wich obviously wasnt the problem i have direct tv,denon 3800bdci,denon dvd2200.i use tributaries speaker cable, hdmi and interconnects.and i just purchased a panamax 5300pm in hopes of solving my problem
the problem is harshness or distortion mostly in the high frequencies and voices.the first month i had the speakers i did not hear this.sometimes its worse than others.. i had totally lost the soudstage and everything was kinda muddled
i first thought it was my speaker cables laying on an old monster surge protector because it improved a little after i cleaned all that up".sound stage returned" witch lead to the purchase of the panamax.
i know im not crazy and something is not right,anyone with any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
thanks steve

[madmac]

Well....I don't know where to start..... or what to say. I do not understand most of what you have just said or where you are going,,,,or want to go. All I got from all this, is that you have some distortion problems...that's it!!.

Please re-post and be very specific about what you have (CM9 ??), how it's setup, cables, connections etc......what's happpening, in what mode...etc...

[stevek]

sorry its hard for me to describe.
the set up
cm9 and cmc2 hooked up to a onkyo avr txsr605.the cm9 are b iamped using tributaries speaker cable,the cmc2 is also using tributaries just not bi amped i have the dvd 2200 hooked in to the avr with rca interconnects just for sacd and dvd audio,the dvd 3800 is hooked into the avr with tributaries hdmi and the direct tv tuner is also via hdmi.all of the power cords and the cable are run to a panamax.5300
i am hearing i guess distortion or harshness mostly in the high frequencies,voices crackling loss of detail.
when i first hooked up the speakers the sound was amazing then something changed.i dont know what it is or what happened.
it can be heard on all three speakers and with any format,tv,sacd,dvd,cd..
i thought i had a problem with my avr witch is a denon 3312 witch i sent in to be looked at.
im lost as to what may be causing this and i hope i explained this better.

[stevek]

ok i guess im not good at explaining my issues.
any suggestions on steps to take to isolate the problem.
again i hear high frequency distortion with everything i play.
it is very subtle but it is there.
i believe i have eleminated electrical being that i purchased the panamax
could it be in speaker terminations,i have mostly tributaries but i have a few others that i believe are made of silver not gold like the others.
i also have in ceiling surrounds that i have not been up in the attic to check.
could a problem with one connection cause distortion in every channel
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[Alaric]

Have you tried isolating each component and testing them individually? Or try the "wiggle test". Manually shake (gently) the cables and wires while you're hearing the distortion to check connections. Also try to determine if one (or both) tweeters are damaged. That last may be made easier by removing the jumpers on the speaker posts to better isolate the circuit. Post back and let us know what you find from these checks. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here , so you should be able to get some help. Good luck!

[stevek]

i have the speakers bi amped
i just finished cutting the power to each component and tried to find it that way.
right now whatching direct tv its seems to have cleared a little but it always seems to come back
when i pause a component and turn the volume all the way up i hear a loud buzzing noise.i go from source to source doing that and it seems to be there sometimes and sometimes its not.
i unplug and plug back in and wiggled around the hdmi cords and i can hear audible sounds inside the speakers.
i think it could be coming from my dvd 3800 but im not sure.
this is very frustrating
i also fear it could be maybe the crossovers in the speakers
i have absolutely no experience with audio equiptment.lol

[Alaric]

I don't know if it's relevant , but plasma TVs bleed energy. Enough to make HAM radios act stupid to the point of unusable in some cases.

[stevek]

i have a mitsubishi dlp?

[stevek]

i may have found my problem.
something seems to be wrong with my denon dvd 3800.i have it is now powered off .it used to always be on stand by
i still detect noise when i swith my receiver to dvd multi witch is where it is hooked up.it still has power connected.next i will pull the power cord and see if it totally eliminates the hum.
do this sound logical that the dvd would be sending interference to all formats even when standby mode.

[Alaric]

Ground loops can do funny things. Sounds like you're on the right track , though.

[madmac]

Most 'hums' are due to power issues. re-plug ALL your gear into a different plug and be SURE that the polarity is correct and that the receptacle is GROUNDED!!.

Another thing you mentioned is that your surround wires are up in the attic. Hummm.....worrysome!. Try disconnecting the surrounds from the amp
and play the system without them to check if the 'sound' is still there. It's all about the process of elimination, kind of like the Scientific Method really.

However, and at the end of the day, most 'hums' and other weird noises are due to something wrong in regards to power.

[stevek]

thanks guys for all your suggestions,,im still on the hunt for the ghost in my machines.i have decided to wait for my denon to be returned to narrow it down,i dont think the cm9s like the onkyo to much.i have ripped everything out at least twice changed out speaker wires etc.driving me nuts.
i guess my next step will be contacting direct tv to see if there may be a problem there and then into the electrical system of my house.
again thanks for your suggestions.
maybe i need to go ahead and get an amp and see what happens.
steve

[Gianluca]

Hello,

If you think it is a ground loop then disconnect anything that is not necessary. Plug them all in one at a time, chances are it will be the directv since it has another ground source.

Next I would eliminate the BI-AMP setup and keep it as simple as possible. One source and one amplification to start then maybe go back to BI_AMP. I would also make certain that the + and - are not reversed.

Luca

[Alaric]

Just for S & Gs , bypass the M*ster surge protector and see what happens.

[sleddogg]

Take everyting over to your best friends house and try it there, if it works, trade houses with him.

[dukester]

I had this problem (hum) twice. First occurence was due to poor quality RCA cables. Second, as Gianluca suggested, was the dvr/cable box. More specifically, the coax cable. Try using a better shielded cable into and out of your Panamax...worked for me. Good luck...

[madmac]

All the above suggestions are great except for Sleddog's, which is not really viable!!. I like the 'simplify' one quite a bit also. Just use a slow, process of elimination method to find the problem and you will find it I'm sure.

[stevek]

i kinda like sleddogs suggestions.i have tried about everything except checking the houses electrical and the directv.i was also thinking about the speakers being mag. shielded or not.thats where im at.
ilast night i was thinking about it possibly being cable line related.i remember directv guy having some issues in other rooms
this problem has probably always been here but my old speakers"def tech bp7002 may have covered it up.
you guys are a lot of help thanks,i guess the good thing about this mess is i will learn a few things along the way.
as for mag.shielding i noticed last night that when i put the dvd player in pure direct it seemed to clean up a little and i spaced the speakers about a foot away from the electronics.
may be more than 1 issue.i will find it eventually

[stevek]

well i think i have got it.i made the brilliant move of sliding the speakers out about 10 inches further from all my gear and imagine that it clears up.boy i could have saved myself a lot of frustration doin that from the start.live and you learn.
had to have been a shieding issue i guess.
thanks for everyone help i think i have learned a little along the way

[Alaric]

That's one of the things that makes these forums great. We all get to learn things. I know a lot more than I ever would have picked up just by personal experience. Glad you got it sorted out!

[madmac]

Very interesting Stevec!!......glad you fixed it.

[stevek]

thanks guys,it seems to be over,i still hear the humming when i have the dvd switched to stereo but its when its paused and the volume is all the way up.i was told that that is common.
i plan on purchasing an emotiva xpa 5 or i saw a upa 7 on audiogon by the end of the month and im sure that will make things even more pleasing

[stevek]

great news all my problems have returned,sounded good for about 4 days.maybe i am just goin crazy.direct tv coming monday maybe they will find something.lol

[madmac]

By moving the speakers, you moved some 'stuff'....wires etc.....there is a lot of wires in today's setups so your problem is undoubtedly in your wiring somewhere. Keep plugging along buddy...... You'll find the problem sooner or later!!

[Stoney]

I had a vaporiser that would cause a hum on my sup amps (even when they were in standby). The vaporiser was actually on the second floor of the house and my system was on the ground floor on the other side of the house. That same house was at the end of a cul de sac. When the neighbor was using power tools, my lights would dim. To get to my point, could be something outside of the system causing noise on the input power.

[madmac]

When the neighbor was using power tools, my lights would dim. To get to my point, could be something outside of the system causing noise on the input power.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you've got some major power issues my friend. Maybe it's time for an electrician???. 8O

[Stoney]

I have moved. Problem solveed.

[madmac]

Well now that's a solution !!! hehehe!!!