need help: 683 vs CM9

[vacwm]

Good day everybody,
I am new to the audio world as to this forum.
I have been reading a lot and I sincerely thank this community for all the information posted- made me a wiser man when it comes to 'sound'.
I am building a home theater in my basement.

I have listened to many different speaker makes amongst: totem, martin logan, paradigm, energy, klipsch, dbs, and B&W.

my heart is torn between the CM9 and the 683. Again, i am not an expert nor do i understand the technicality behind sound. But i do have a trained ear. I can hear the difference between the CM9 and the 683.
I can afford both, but the 683 are at $1,700 where as the CM9 are at $3,500 (I live in Canada). I am not sure that the difference is worth it... thoughts?
Also, it seems that a lot of the B&W owners use them for music and not HT. I will be using them for HT... thoughts?

i really can appreciate all the help and advice about my setup.
Here is what the dealer is advising:
CM9
CMC2
ASW-10CM
2 pairs of CCM-50 *ceiling*
ROTEL RSX-1560 7.1

what do you guys think?

[Aiden]

Good day everybody,
I am new to the audio world as to this forum.
I have been reading a lot and I sincerely thank this community for all the information posted- made me a wiser man when it comes to 'sound'.
I am building a home theater in my basement.

I have listened to many different speaker makes amongst: totem, martin logan, paradigm, energy, klipsch, dbs, and B&W.

my heart is torn between the CM9 and the 683. Again, i am not an expert nor do i understand the technicality behind sound. But i do have a trained ear. I can hear the difference between the CM9 and the 683.
I can afford both, but the 683 are at $1,700 where as the CM9 are at $3,500 (I live in Canada). I am not sure that the difference is worth it... thoughts?
Also, it seems that a lot of the B&W owners use them for music and not HT. I will be using them for HT... thoughts?

i really can appreciate all the help and advice about my setup.
Here is what the dealer is advising:
CM9
CMC2
ASW-10CM
2 pairs of CCM-50 *ceiling*
ROTEL RSX-1560 7.1

what do you guys think?

If you have to ask if the difference in sound is worth it, then it is isn't.

[dukester]

If you have to ask if the difference in sound is worth it, then it is isn't.

just being the devils advocate, i say if you have to ask, you obviously hear something in the cm9's to question your decision. i owned the 683's and really enjoyed the bass. however, the impressive bass was not enough to overcome what they lacked in soundstage/depth (boxy & veiled to me). one thing i'm pretty sure of, the htm61 did not work out well for me...did not match well no matter what i tried. so if HT is important, and as critically important as a center channel is, i'd go w/the cm's.

btw, that rotel sounds pretty damn good...the deal breaker for me was the lack of auto room correction...but still an outstanding rcvr.

[Briz vegas]

Maybe you need to understand the upgrade and listening process.

Personally I don't think you need perfection for Home Theatre, but that is me. HT has alot more going on that 2 channel music. I have rarely been dissatisfied with HT performance with all the distractions of visuals, plot, general distractions from others in the room and the freshness of a new film never seen before. If you are a HT music person then things might be a little bit different.

I think you need to understand what floats your boat and whether you are a potential "upgrade" candidate. If you are likely to want to upgrade then getting the best speakers you can will at least delay the next upgrade. If 683 leaves you totally satisfied then the HT system can remain for many many years.

Reasons for upgraditus
I think this differs from person to person. The urge to upgrade comes from one or more of the following
- Something about your system bugs you and detracts from the enjoyment
- You hear a better system than yours
- You are bored with your system (or life in general) or you feel you have to have the best
- You have become accustomed to your system and notice the sonic signature rather that the music you are listening to (more of a two channel thing where you are more likely to get repeat critical listening).

I don't think anyone truely hears a system without prelonged listening. Its the reason that blind testing is flawed - unless you can do it over a week or more. In an audition you focus on the big differences and you don't hear the full picture, its just too much information for our brains to process all of the differences in one sitting. Your mood and the level of novelty also affects your perception. Its means that there is always a risk involved in buying a new system. ideally you should have a long audition but that is typically impossible to achieve.

Example: Only 2 weeks back my "regular" hifi dealer and I heard another customers new valve (purchased online) in a familiar valve amp for the first time. Our immediate reaction was "wow". We later took the valve out and 10 minutes later another regular customer came in. The dealer was keen to get another opinion so it was put back in the system. This time the wow factor was not there, the dealer turned to me and said "is it me or was it better the first time", I could only agree, the wow factor had evaporated on the second listen. It may have returned on subsequent listens but it was gone at that time for both of us.

I suggest going back a few times to listen to the two options that you like, say 2 or 3 times. Let your dealer know that you are a serious buyer and most will appreciate the difficult decision you are trying to make. Once the initial gloss has gone (by the third audition) you should have an idea which option is likely to keep you happy.

I have upgraded in my 2 channel system about 20 times over the past 4 years (so I must be a bad offender when it comes to wanting more). The above is my take on what makes a sound buying decision that is "likely" to keep you happy. I still have my 804s after 4 years, everything else has changed. The sound is light years from what I was getting when I first got them. As I said to someone in a private post, my 804s are probably one of the best sounding pairs out there because so much time has been spent refining their performance.

[vacwm]

thanks guys, very valid points. i have not heard the center channels yet. only the 2 front columns. i figured that once i settle on one of them i will ask the dealer to have the full setup ready for me to audition one las time.
maybe i should ask them to test out the center channels.

here is one of my fears: i am getting mixed opinions from different vendors about the following point. Some say that certain speakers are made for specific experiences and some say BS. For example: my Totem dealer says that totem's are made for HT, but other speakers are not. B&W dealer says the latter is BS, if a speaker sounds good in Jazz music it will sound good to me running HT as well cause it has proved it variances, range, clarity and power.
what's your take on that?

[htsteve]

here is one of my fears: i am getting mixed opinions from different vendors about the following point. Some say that certain speakers are made for specific experiences and some say BS. For example: my Totem dealer says that totem's are made for HT, but other speakers are not. B&W dealer says the latter is BS, if a speaker sounds good in Jazz music it will sound good to me running HT as well cause it has proved it variances, range, clarity and power.
what's your take on that?

vacwm,

A stout 2 channel set up (mainly referring to main speakers and a stereo amp) will be the anchor to an excellent HT. So I am agreeing with the B&W dealer.

I also built a dedicated HT room in my basement. And my mains speakers (802D's) are powered by a Mac MC-402. A great combo for two channel, to be sure. It is also the anchor to a great home theater.

As for 683 vs. C9, that is simply preference. If they really sond similar to you, you might go with the 683's, save some money, and make additions else where.

What is the rest of your system?

One area to consider when building a dedicated room is acoustic treatments. I use Real Traps, with quite good results. Something to consider. If you want to compare notes on room building, send me a PM.


Hope this helps.


PS Welcome to the forum.

[vacwm]

Thanks for the note. I would love to compare and chat. I am a beginner at this and I Am trying to avoid NB mistakes.
Here is the setup of the cm9 that I am looking at:
Front: CM9
Center: CMC2
Sub: ASW-10CM
Surround: 2 pairs of CCM-50 *ceiling*
Receiver: ROTEL RSX-1560 7.1

If I decide to go with the 683 then I would keep the surround and the receiver and get the matching center and sub.
It is killing me that the difference in price is huge (exactly double) and I'm happy w the performance of both cm9 and 683.
I don't want to get the 683 and then regret it 6 months later- at the same time I don't want to spend twice the money for a difference that I might not care for 6 months later.
Ugly dilemma for a beginner.
what do you guys think?

[Briz vegas]

Yup - no one here can answer your question, you are asking us to second guess your personal preference in 6 months time. Impossible.

If its alot of money to you and you are happy with the look of the speakers then go with the 600s. It will be better than what 95% of the rest of the world is listening to at home and probably equal to the cinema in town, if not better.

There are lots of things you can do to improve the sound in a dedicated room that most people never do, such as room treatments for example. Putting your DVD or blue ray player, or amp on the right rack or supports can make a very significant difference to sound quality. I've done that with my old NAD DVD player. You can play with your power to improve the sound in various ways and with a receiver you can adjust the audio as well. Its not like there is nothing you can do if you find yourself wanting more in the future.

I would suggest with the B&Ws you may be better off considering a pre/power or receiver plus power amp with the 600s if you are driving all those channels. B&W FST speakers are very power hungry, although Rotel are better than most at handling difficult loads.

[htsteve]

I would suggest with the B&Ws you may be better off considering a pre/power or receiver plus power amp with the 600s if you are driving all those channels. B&W FST speakers are very power hungry, although Rotel are better than most at handling difficult loads.

vacwm,

This is my thinking as well. For the cost for the 683 based system (vs the CM based system), you can get a very nice external amp to go along with the receiver. The 600 series, especially the 683's, will like the significantly added power.

Since you are opting for a Rotel receiver, stay in that family and get one of their 5 channel amps. Like the RMB-1575. Or if your space and budget allows, a stereo amp (RB-1572 or RB-1582) for the 683's plus a 'smaller' multi channel amp like the RMB-1565 for everything else.

Also, for the 600 center channel, I would suggest the HTM61, as it has the FST midrange driver. This will match better with the 683's. Do a search in the forum. I seem to recall that at least one of the center channels in the 600 series was not well liked. It might have been an older version of the series, though.


Hope this helps.

[stuofsci02]

vacwm,

Where are you located in Canada?

I have had the 683 and HTM61 in the past and I now have 804s + HTM4s, and also have a pair of CM7.

I have only heard the CM9 once and found it to be an excellent speaker. That said, if all you are interested in is HT and TV, and you don't mind the cheaper look of the 683 then I think the extra $$ to get the CM9 is probably not worth it. I would however recommend staying away from the HTM61 and going for the CMC2 (the big CM center) even if you do get the 683.

Now if music is going to be priority now or down the road I would certainly recommend the CM series speaker. They are fantastic. For me they beat the 600 series hands down..

[dukester]

have you considered the CM8's? Some $$ savings there...maybe directed towards a beefy jl f112 or the new velodyne db1+ (i think).

[stuofsci02]

have you considered the CM8's? Some $$ savings there...maybe directed towards a beefy jl f112 or the new velodyne db1+ (i think).

I would even consider getting a pair of CM7 + CMC2 to save a few bucks. With the new CM8 a lot of shops have the CM7s still and are willing to price them to move (for as cheap as the 683 or cheaper). I would go CM7s over 683s having owned them both...

[htsteve]

I would even consider getting a pair of CM7 + CMC2 to save a few bucks. With the new CM8 a lot of shops have the CM7s still and are willing to price them to move (for as cheap as the 683 or cheaper). I would go CM7s over 683s having owned them both...

vacwm,

A pretty good idea.

[vacwm]

Thanks guys... great ideas. I am in Ottawa.
as you know the CM7 are d/c and the dealers in Ottawa do not have any. I listened to the CM8 but prefer the 683 to it! i think the 683 sounds closer to the CM9 than the CM8 does. i think i am going to go for the CM9.

[stuofsci02]

Thanks guys... great ideas. I am in Ottawa.
as you know the CM7 are d/c and the dealers in Ottawa do not have any. I listened to the CM8 but prefer the 683 to it! i think the 683 sounds closer to the CM9 than the CM8 does. i think i am going to go for the CM9.

Cool.. I live outside of Toronto, so I thought if you were in the GTA I could recommend some places..

I am suprised that you preferred the 683 to the CM8. Do you mind if I ask what you liked better about the 683s? I would expect the CM8 should be an improvement to the CM7, but perhaps this is not the case...

[dukester]

Thanks guys... great ideas. I am in Ottawa.
as you know the CM7 are d/c and the dealers in Ottawa do not have any. I listened to the CM8 but prefer the 683 to it! i think the 683 sounds closer to the CM9 than the CM8 does. i think i am going to go for the CM9.

no question the cm9 is an excellent speaker...not really surprised you feel that way about the 683's...they are definitely bass heavy, and may be the reason why they might be closer to the cm9's. but i would be interested to compare the mids/highs of the 683's to the cm8's (probably not this crazy weekend) as i'm actually thinking of the cm8's for another room. i considered keeping the 683's but i liked the soundstage/imaging of the cm's better, not to mention the aesthetics. btw, what finish will you be getting them in? also, regarding separates or av rcvr...as good as the 1560 is, i echo others in recommending going with separates...makes upgrading power much easier. in any case, good luck and congrats on choosing the cm9's :T

[Industrial]

Cool.. I live outside of Toronto, so I thought if you were in the GTA I could recommend some places..

I'm in Ottawa as well, we pretty much have only one B&W dealer here.

[stuofsci02]

I'm in Ottawa as well, we pretty much have only one B&W dealer here.

Where is that?

[stuofsci02]

no question the cm9 is an excellent speaker...not really surprised you feel that way about the 683's...they are definitely bass heavy, and may be the reason why they might be closer to the cm9's. but i would be interested to compare the mids/highs of the 683's to the cm8's (probably not this crazy weekend) as i'm actually thinking of the cm8's for another room. i considered keeping the 683's but i liked the soundstage/imaging of the cm's better, not to mention the aesthetics. btw, what finish will you be getting them in? also, regarding separates or av rcvr...as good as the 1560 is, i echo others in recommending going with separates...makes upgrading power much easier. in any case, good luck and congrats on choosing the cm9's :T

Yes, I am sure the 683 have more bass then the CM8. For me though the bass was a bit boomy and at the expense of imaging and smoothness.. Don't get me wrong.. I love the 683 (had them for 2 years and would have kept them longer if a great deal on the 804s didn't come up).. I still think that for HT the advantages of the CM9s would not be utilized to justify the cost difference.. Music.. Different story...

[emig5m]

Maybe go with used/mint condition previous 800 "S" series! (804S) Heck, I got mine brand new for $645 more than brand new CM9's! That was an impossible to refuse deal so I jumped on them and couldn't be happier! (previous 683 owner) :T

[vacwm]

what do i like about the 683 over the CM8? well i found the bass heavier and more responsive, i also found the sound to be slightly brighter, which i liked- maybe a tad too bright with the 683, a tad too deep in the CM8 and just perfect with the CM9.
the drivers on the 683 are closer to that on the CM9 than the CM8.

the framing in my Theatre room is almost done, 4 more walls to complete... then the insulation comes. Wiring is almost done, 20% of wiring remains.
Dry wall... putty and then final decision on equipement.
i will post some pictures when done...

feel free to recommend B&W dealers in Toronto or somewhere in between T and O.
i don't mind checking them out. The dealers in O town (Audioshop) have provided me with great service... i would rather give them the business, but i need to ensure that i am getting into a win-win deal...

[vacwm]

sorry forgot to answer the color question: black; to fit my HT room...

[emig5m]

what do i like about the 683 over the CM8? well i found the bass heavier and more responsive, i also found the sound to be slightly brighter, which i liked- maybe a tad too bright with the 683, a tad too deep in the CM8 and just perfect with the CM9.

Get the CM9. :T If you get the 683 you'll always be second guessing. Plus the CM series has a better center channel anyway since you're doing HT so everything will match. I love the new piano black and that would be my first choice in finish if buying brand new today! Congrats in advance on your new CM purchase and we'll see you in about a year when you're urging' for the upgrade into the 800's.. :B :rofl:

[vacwm]

hahahaha yea... everyone seems to have great things to say about hte 800's. The dealer suggested that i listen to them and i said no. i have a bad habit of buying the best i product that i can afford, and if i listen to the 800 i am going to end up buying them. i have higher priorities right now, so i am trying to settle for a happy medium.

Stuofsci02........... Ottawa is the capital of Canada. It is in the province of Ontario... It is between Toronto and Montreal. about 5 hours from Toronto and 2 hours from Montreal.

[stuofsci02]

Stuofsci02........... Ottawa is the capital of Canada. It is in the province of Ontario... It is between Toronto and Montreal. about 5 hours from Toronto and 2 hours from Montreal.

hahaha

Yes I am Canadian and have been to Ottawa many many times... I meant where is the B&W dealership in Ottawa..

[vacwm]

oops... sorry bud... Audioshop is on Bank St... Bank and Glebe area...

[stuofsci02]

oops... sorry bud... Audioshop is on Bank St... Bank and Glebe area...

Ah yes.. This is where my uncle gets his Energy stuff.