The new PM1

[Mikael]

Hi folks here is a picture of the new PM 1. i hope this is the first speaker in a new series to take over the 7 series. The design looks like a updated 7 series.

I think it's the best looking B&W speaker in a long time.

[Mikael]

Here's a couple more:

[Ron526]

2012 LM-1

Ron

[nirvana_1911]

Any announced or rumored pricing as yet?

[beden1]

The one pictured on the stand kinda looks like a mail box!

[Miketr75]

The one pictured on the stand kinda looks like a mail box!

I agree :-))

[rgbyhkr]

More pictures and info including spec sheet WITH pricing:

http://www.homecinema-hifi.com/nouvelle-enceinte-bibliotheque-pm1-de-bw/

http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?id=3026

[Industrial]

Is this the only 700 replacement series in the works? I like the tweeter placement and sides but find the front ugly . I wonder if they will make something that's more like the old 804s. Looking for new speakers and just can't justify the price of the new 804d's with so many other things I need my funds for.

[stuofsci02]

Looks a bit pricey at $3300 MSRP per pair with stands, but they did say it is an improvement on the 805S in which case pricing may not be to bad.

I will reserve judgement until I see it and hear it.

[Aquarius]

More pictures here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonusart/

[rgbyhkr]

Embargo was apparently lifted today. See the What Hi-Fi article:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/bw-pm1-...ts-world-debut

Jeff

[rgbyhkr]

The article says that it will be available in Burgundy later on. I don't recall seeing any B&W product in that finish color. Anyone have a link to a current or former model so I can get an idea of what it might look like? Thanks!

Jeff

[dan87951]

lol mailbox, so true! Not a huge fan on looks. They should just bring back the 800 S series as the replacement 700 series. Those who prefer the much cheaper aluminum tweeter can have it.

[beden1]

Embargo was apparently lifted today. See the What Hi-Fi article:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/bw-pm1-...ts-world-debut

Jeff

Sensitivity - 84dB spl = Ouch!

[stuofsci02]

Sensitivity - 84dB spl = Ouch!

Yeah, but it would be hard to do much better with the mid/bass driver size (only 5") the way B&W designs its speakers..

It has the same driver sizes as the 686 and CM1 which are both 84db spl too..

[Industrial]

Sensitivity - 84dB spl = Ouch!

Same as the cm1's. Too bad a floorstander isn't available ATM.

[beden1]

That's very inefficient to try and get a full body sound, particularly for stereo at lower volumes

[stuofsci02]

I think full bodied sound will be tough with only a 5" driver, although I could be wrong..

I think alot of the SPL from a larger speaker comes from the low freq. This speaker just cannot go low, so I think that will be the big diff..

[beden1]

I think full bodied sound will be tough with only a 5" driver, although I could be wrong..

I think alot of the SPL from a larger speaker comes from the low freq. This speaker just cannot go low, so I think that will be the big diff..

Yes, and if B&W is specifically targeting stereo, there are currently very few stereo pre-amps that do LFE, so sub woofers will be out of the equation. Unless of course, you have another $5,000+ to spend on something like the announced Classe CP-800 that does bass management.

But, if I was going to set up a stereo system with a $5,000 pre-amp and separate amp/amps, I'd also probably have the budget for a better full range speaker setup.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding their target market with these speakers?

[stuofsci02]

I guess time will tell..

I could see these being nice for a small den...

[Charlieu]

I have a computer room that these would be perfect for. I especially like that they are front ported. It gives you more latitude for positioning them.

[Briz vegas]

It fills a niche I think. 805 has gone upstream so this picks up on the quality and somewhat affordable prestige level market. I listened to a quaily dynaudio setup just last week an the bass was very nice. The room was not small, actually it was open plan. What it did have was carefully designed room treatment. We played alot of different styles of music, no R&B mind you.

I would have room treatment over a subwoofer any day.

I like my 705s better in the looks department, but they look ok. I guess they had to watch that it didn't look better that the 805s. They could have played with something more daring but I guess that was the signature diamond.

[Mikael]

I seriously doubt that B&W are spending that kind of money that it cost to develope a new treble unit, for just one, maybe 2 speakers. And B&W remarks about there is not room for a whole series of speakers is just bull. the price gap between the CM series and the 800DI series is just to big, not to have a series between. just my 2 cents.

[stuofsci02]

Not sure I agree... CM9 is about half the cost of the 804Di.. So IMO the gap is not that big that something else needs to be in there.

[rgbyhkr]

Up on B&W's site now:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/PM1

[SPACEMANRICK]

Thanks for the update on the website. The brochure is a great read.....I look forward to seeing and hearing the speakers in person. That is a lot of money for a bookshelf speaker but the proof will be in how they sound.

[JustinGN]

I, personally, adore the look of the PM1's - a nice blend of modern aesthetic with traditional textures and materials, definitely a looker when placed near, say, an Eames lounger. $3200 USD for a pair is pretty steep though, especially for a pair of glorified bookshelf speakers - and it looks like they need quite a bit of quality power to boot, which puts a total Hi-Fi price well past the $5k mark. Combined with a lack of matching subwoofer, color me skeptical about the performance claims on the low end.

The high end, however, is intriguing. It seems B&W wants to move away from synthetic diamond and into straight carbon tweeters, and I'm wondering if A) They're cheaper to make & B) Sound better than their Diamond ancestors. If both hold true, it could be the next "trickle-down" feature to look forward to for those of us still sitting in the 600 camp.

Anyone heard these yet that could compare them to, say, other speakers in the B&W lineup? It seems that B&W themselves are pushing this as on-par with or better than the 805D, but I'm very curious how it'll sound to other bookshelf speakers in the various ranges (CM, 800D, 600) as well as the "lower-end" (Ha ha, lower-end my ass) 600 series floor standers.

[jpbas1]

I like the look as well. The price point puzzles me a bit though. It borders on the 805Di price point through some other non-traditional markets (ie used or resale prices). Unless it completely torches the 805di in performance... I am still staying with the 800 series or least CM series in terms of price to performance ratio.

[beden1]

I like the look as well. The price point puzzles me a bit though. It borders on the 805Di price point through some other non-traditional markets (ie used or resale prices). Unless it completely torches the 805di in performance... I am still staying with the 800 series or least CM series in terms of price to performance ratio.

I would doubt very much if these speakers rival that of the 805D. More likely B&W is raising the prices on the 800 Diamond line to make up the difference.

[style]

nor listen but ......hey man (read B&W) we are not soooo stupid!!

with all respect!


style

[rgbyhkr]

I would doubt very much if these speakers rival that of the 805D. More likely B&W is raising the prices on the 800 Diamond line to make up the difference.

I like the look as well. The price point puzzles me a bit though. It borders on the 805Di price point through some other non-traditional markets (ie used or resale prices). Unless it completely torches the 805di in performance... I am still staying with the 800 series or least CM series in terms of price to performance ratio.

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't quite understand the pricing commentary. I can understand the dislike of an upmarket price move for the 805Di from the 805S and this model's price jump over the former 700 series equivalent, but I don't see major issues on the price of these in comparison to the 805Di. The PM1 will eventually hit the used/resell market and when they do, the price will be far lower than that of a used 805Di. So, comparisons between those 2 seem like apples and oranges. Generally, I think the pricing works (at least the US pricing) as $2800 is closer to the $1500 CM5 than the $5000 805Di. The gap between the 2 gets filled an on the side of less expensive. These aren't cheap, but they are far from the most expensive 2-ways out there.

Jeff

[jpbas1]

Don't get me wrong... my comments about pricing "are only that B&W will only get me again..." I don't have an issue with the cost at all. My child can go to public schooling if he has to. :W I loved my 805Di's; and love the 802's that followed... but if the PM-1 bridges the gap in performance and price... I'll own a pair eventually. The comment was essentially to see where the PM-1 will fit amongst the new CM and 800-series line. I don't want to think that the new carbon fitted tweeter design is to replace the Diamond... but so will be evolution and progress...

[btf1980]

Here's a video of the designer of the PM1 discussing the speakers.

http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/news/new-products/bowers-wilkins-pm1-exclusive-interview-with-designer-morten-warren/

The speakers look good in the video to me, but I suppose some people will always find fault no matter what. I mean, some people on this forum complained about the new diamond series looking tacky, despite them looking almost identical to the previous generation with the exception of a small silver ring.

I'm glad B&W is not resting on their laurels, and they are developing new products. They are a speaker manufacturer with a long, proven track record. They've earned their stripes.

[Grasynoll]

I might have missed this but where are they being manufactured??

[alebonau]

The article says that it will be available in Burgundy later on. I don't recall seeing any B&W product in that finish color. Anyone have a link to a current or former model so I can get an idea of what it might look like? Thanks!

Jeff

would be very interesting to see the burgundy - probably another name for rosewood :B

great to see B&W fill the gap the 805S left :T

[alebonau]

I might have missed this but where are they being manufactured??

good question, china or blighty ?

also do wonder if they have gone for fixing points under the speaker just like the 805D. as would be usefull of a speaker this size, so can securely mount on a stand and not get accidently toppled off if get bumped :E

[Industrial]

good question, china or blighty ?

also do wonder if they have gone for fixing points under the speaker just like the 805D. as would be usefull of a speaker this size, so can securely mount on a stand and not get accidently toppled off if get bumped :E

So the whole weight of the stand and speaker combined gets toppled over. Sorry still bitter as this happened to me

[alebonau]

So the whole weight of the stand and speaker combined gets toppled over. Sorry still bitter as this happened to me

that wouldnt be good. some stands can be quite sturdy and sand weighted to prevent just this sort of thing.

the 805D and focal 1007be/1008be come with fixing points. just wondering of the pm1 come with these as well

[rgbyhkr]

Here are some "real world" shots of the PM1 taken by a UK dealer:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankharveyhifi/archives/date-posted/2011/06/30/

Jeff

[rgbyhkr]

Some more from a different person here:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.213784925323488.47266.182257318476249&l=ffa6a086e6

[azazel]

They look like an upgrade on the cdm range which had mdf visible on the edges of the sides. Now its plywood. As a compromise on the 805 I think it looks ok but they seem overpriced to me. B&W could suffer in the current economic climate as they have recently increased their prices alot, and hifi is discretionary spending. Their big growth came with the nautilus range and they increased their facilities during the boom years. They may find they have got too big over the coming years. Personally, I think the old nautilus range with the signature models were the best value, and B&W should have increased the finish options.

[aarsoe]

Find it very interesting that they have strayed from the classic crossover. They say it is still at 4 Khz - but according to the picture they now use 3.9 uF vs a 4.7 uF as they normally have always have done, so shouldn't that also change the crossover freq?

[dan87951]

They look like an upgrade on the cdm range which had mdf visible on the edges of the sides. Now its plywood. As a compromise on the 805 I think it looks ok but they seem overpriced to me. B&W could suffer in the current economic climate as they have recently increased their prices alot, and hifi is discretionary spending. Their big growth came with the nautilus range and they increased their facilities during the boom years. They may find they have got too big over the coming years. Personally, I think the old nautilus range with the signature models were the best value, and B&W should have increased the finish options.

Couldn't agree more. The Sig 800's are one of my favs and the replacement tweeter is "reasonable" if needed to replace.

[alebonau]

heard the little PM1s off electrocompaniet amp and cd player along with 805D also in the same room.

the pm1 is definitely a mini 805D. superb build cant fault it. a very solid speaker the pm1, very nicely put together. It does indeed have fastening points under the speaker so can very securely affix to the matching stand. and the matching stand is also a very classy piece.

yes sure the 805D a clear step up, but then it does cost twice as much and can see a lot of people buying the pm1's and very happy with them

[Allman]

I had a listen today at my usual dealer, he was one of the first receiving the pm1.

The good thing, they look gorgeous :E

The bad, i was shocked how poor they sounded, i mean really poor. There little speakers and that's exactly how they sound even at moderate listening levels. my dealer indicated they need a really good amp which scares potential buyers away due to cost. Next to it was a 805d and after a side by side it was obvious the 805d is not even close, granted they cost 2000 euro more inclusing stands.

I really wanted to like the pm1. But it's off my list, 3000 euro including stands.... :roll:

I feel the 805d price is way to high but i'm going to give it a try at a home demo in a couple of weeks time.

Anybody else got a chance to listen?

Brgds,
Alex