802Di or 800Di or 800D or stick to the 801S3

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • JürgenW
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2004
    • 156

    802Di or 800Di or 800D or stick to the 801S3

    I am happy with my B&W Matrix 801 S3 speakers for quite a while. For me the greatest shortcoming is a sometimes unclear bas, but that does bother me only with certain recordings. I like a bas which doesn’t sound strengthened or unclear. When listening to e.g. a contrabass I want to hear just that.
    Anyway I was and am wondering if the new B&W’s are a real improvement in my home.

    Some days ago I listened at my dealer’s shop to 800Di’s in an acoustically bad room and I thought that my speakers are still at least not less. But after that I got the opportunity to listen to 802Di’s in another room, not a big one, crowded and with a bank against the rear wall. Distance speakers – listener: 3 meters. At first I wasn’t impressed, but then I heard Anna Netrebko, sempre libera, Otello. I got the impression that I heard far more shades in Nebreko’s voice then I could remember and which made listening to her voice more worthwhile. (So at that moment it wasn’t the bas-thing that attracted me most.) After that I listened at home to the same CD and it confirmed my impression: I didn’t hear the shades.
    Therefore I thought I will give it a more prepared second try and make a new appointment by my dealer.

    I am thinking about listening to the 802Di, the 800Di and the 800D.
    At first I didn’t think I should take into consideration the 800 speakers, because they don’t fit so well into my room (acoustically and because of their massiveness). But I think I should give them a try.

    Let me describe my room:
    length: 8,5 meters; deep 3,50-4,00 m; high 3,10 m. Concrete walls, wooden floor with carpets, wooden CD and book cases. I would say the room is quite damped.

    I listen to the speakers at a distance of 2,70 meter (across the short side of the room; can’t change that; the speakers have room to the sides but to the back it is restricted to about 0,3 – 0,5 meter), sitting in a bank with cloth fabric upholstery.

    When I made a new appointment at my dealer, he offered the possibility of hearing an 800D (so not a Di), too, which he is selling for the price of the new 802Di’s.
    My dealer told me that because of the better construction of the 800 that speaker could be a better choice, because sometimes it works better nearer to a wall then a 802.

    And after so many words here come my questions.
    I would appreciate if someone who has experience with comparing these speakers and could tell me if he thinks they one of the speakers are / could be an improvement at my home.
    Also I would like to get some hints to what I should special attention when comparing the speakers.

    (If I have heard the speakers at the dealer and I think one of them could be the one for me, I will get the opportunity to listen to hem at my home, before I will decide if I want to by them. But moving around with these speakers isn’t a hobby of mine. So I want to well prepared before that.)
    Last edited by JürgenW; 12 February 2011, 10:09 Saturday.
  • Pedro
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 303

    #2
    I never got the oportunity to listen M801S3, but i heard the 800D(old) and currently own the 801D. For your taste especially the bass importance you would have, i would suggest the possibility to hear the 801D. It has more extension and is more forgiven, more, musical, and should sound as the M801 but with much more improovements. I felt the best BW i ever heard of course for my style.

    Comment

    • JürgenW
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2004
      • 156

      #3
      Thank you, Pedro.

      I would appreciate if others would react, too.

      I know the subject in general has been discussed several times, but I would welcome reactions which are specific about my situation and wishes.

      Comment

      • IceG
        Junior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 29

        #4
        Two thoughts Jurgen.

        One is whether the dealer is at all biased towards the old stock 800 he is trying to move on. Get him to demo, as he offers, the two speakers side-by-side in his demo room close to the wall and away from it. You can then decide.

        Secondly; I find that Nautilus 802s (mine are pre-Diamond) need vastly more power than my old Matrix 802S3s. If you have loose bass with your 801s (I assume they are classic Matrix range)it could be the amp. It would likely get worse with Nautilus/Diamonds.

        Sorry I can't help with specifics of your question.

        Comment

        • JürgenW
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2004
          • 156

          #5
          Thank you IceG,

          You're right I have the Matrix 801S3. There are on stands, 30 cm from the ground. That gives them some space beneath and adds to their good sound with quite a lot of music.
          (And should I get the 800Di or 802Di then the height difference won't be much.

          I will do a side by side comparison of the 800D, 800Di and 802Di.

          I use two monoblocks, Audionet MAX (German), which should be powerful enough.

          I think that the Matrix 801S3 can't produce the kind of dry bass which I prefer (in certain musical situations).

          Comment

          • windshear
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2004
            • 243

            #6
            Hi Jurgen

            I used to have the M801SIII. I replaced them with the 802D's not the new Di's. I must say i certainly miss the 801's as they went deeper and to my ears were less bright. The sound was smoother, more forgiving, so much so that i was looking for faults in the 802D's. It will be interesting hearing your comparative evaluation.

            A picture when they were both in the room.

            Comment

            • Pedro
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 303

              #7
              The matrix series should to be the most forgive speakers, so a careful listening to the D´s or Di´s is important.. I dont think the new DI are more forgiven, from what i read it´s the oposite, they are more detailed sometimes a bit forward sounding and less forgiving. As i said i heard many BWs except the new Dis from the new speakers the 801D still the most forgiven, and is the model to think about jumping from M801. Even if the 803D/Di, 802D/Di, or 800D/Di could be more forgiven they would never have the same bass IMO.

              Comment

              • beden1
                Super Senior Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 1676

                #8
                What is the output of your amps? Also, where are the speakers positioned? Like, how far from the back walls, or are they in front of corners in the room? I have to believe that it is not the speakers' problem for the lack of bass that you hear in some instances.

                Comment

                • wettou
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • May 2006
                  • 3389

                  #9
                  Originally posted by windshear
                  Hi Jurgen

                  I used to have the M801SIII. I replaced them with the 802D's not the new Di's. I must say i certainly miss the 801's as they went deeper and to my ears were less bright. The sound was smoother, more forgiving, so much so that i was looking for faults in the 802D's. It will be interesting hearing your comparative evaluation.

                  A picture when they were both in the room.
                  http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachm...chmentid=17498
                  Nice room still with a CRT projector :E

                  I thought these were extinct!
                  Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                  Comment

                  • Hammie
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 304

                    #10
                    Originally posted by wettou
                    Nice room still with a CRT projector :E

                    I thought these were extinct!
                    AND 4:3 screen... 8O
                    Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                    Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                    Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                    Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                    B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                    Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                    My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                    Next Upgrade: Cables

                    Comment

                    • wettou
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • May 2006
                      • 3389

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Hammie
                      AND 4:3 screen... 8O
                      So do you watch a lot of TV! You know the new projectors are quite good
                      Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                      Comment

                      • windshear
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 243

                        #12
                        Have you owned a CRT projector, you know they still are very good
                        What have you done with your old 4:3 aspect ratio material, i have lots so i have the best of both worlds. Plus im waiting for it to die before i replace it, maybe my sell by date will arrive before it dies. :T

                        Ok back on topic ....... 802Di's

                        Comment

                        • JürgenW
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 156

                          #13
                          Originally posted by beden1
                          What is the output of your amps? Also, where are the speakers positioned? Like, how far from the back walls, or are they in front of corners in the room? I have to believe that it is not the speakers' problem for the lack of bass that you hear in some instances.
                          Output per monoblok:
                          400 W in 8 Ohm
                          700 W in 4 Ohm
                          1.100 W in 2 Ohm

                          Let me quote from my post at the beginning to describe my room and the positioning of the speakers:
                          'length: 8,5 meters; deep 3,50-4,00 m; high 3,10 m. Concrete walls, wooden floor with carpets, wooden CD and book cases. I would say the room is quite damped.

                          I listen to the speakers at a distance of 2,70 meter (across the short side of the room; can’t change that; the speakers have room to the sides but to the back it is restricted to about 0,3 – 0,5 meter), sitting in a bank with cloth fabric upholstery. '


                          I do not miss bass, I want the bass more controlled, more precise, but that wish applies only to certain situations. Most of the time I listen with sheer delight to the music in my room.
                          There is nothing bad with my installation (as far as I can see), but I want to see if I can improve it. There are some friends who think I am crazy, because they, too, like the sound as it is now.

                          But I think there are some points I could adress for improvement:
                          1. bass could be more precise,
                          2. please note that what draw my attention when hearing the 802Di wasn't a 'better' bass, but hearing the shades in the voice (high(er) notes) of Anna Netrebko.
                          Until then I thought: in my home it sounds at least as good, if not better.

                          One more story to give insight in my approach.
                          When listening to the 800Di they played Patricia Barber's Cafe Blue, Ode to Billy Joe. A record I didn't know. That song sounded great. So I bought the cd myself (that one: Collector's Edition, HDCD, 24crt gold version, newly remastered).
                          I listened to the record at home and was disappointed. The music sounded hollow to me, artificial, too much electronically worked on. (Some way like Cassandra Wilsons, Blue Light 'Til Dawn.)
                          And I don't think my speakers can't give the good sound, but that they are revealing that Barber's cd has the kind of weakness I described.

                          So it isn't about bad and good, but about improving a good system in a given room.
                          And the question is: could an 800Di/800D, 802Di improve things.
                          And the things are: more precise bass and being in state to give more nuances in the higher notes. Very important for me because I love to listen to opera and (classical) songs.
                          Last edited by JürgenW; 13 February 2011, 07:50 Sunday.

                          Comment

                          • IceG
                            Junior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 29

                            #14
                            Hi Jurgen,

                            yup, those amps should do the job going by the specs! They have a very good reception in the UK for build, performance and power.

                            I suggest that a speaker with two smaller bass drivers may give more precision than one with a single larger one as each bass unit on its own would likely need less power to stop and start it. That points to the later models potentialy giving you the bass precision (rather than power) you crave. And one current fashion in the UK is to improve mid-range and high-end (especially famle vocals) by adding subwoofers; implication is that low bass is an important element of the harmonics of that sound. So again better controlled bass should help you.

                            And I guess the most recent mid-range and tweeter drivers should be a generational increment in perfrmance over the Matrix series which is after all about 15+ years old.

                            So there is technical logic to your approach to meeting your needs; choose the best solution of the three at the dealers then get him to install in our room and then you'll know.

                            Im sure you know this but always use music familair to YOU to demo. When you hear something new it always has the attraction of unfamiliarity so should sound good. Especially if the dealer has chosen it to show off the equipment! My current demo/test tracks are Forget You and F*** You from Cee-Lo green's new album. The album mixes are terrible; thick, compressed and unlistenable on my system. But the F*** You bonus track is much better; I just compare the two and see if the album track gets better and the distinct difference remains.

                            And if you end up keeing the Matrix 801s that is no bad system and a complement to a great speaker.

                            Comment

                            • JürgenW
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 156

                              #15
                              Originally posted by IceG
                              And if you end up keeping the Matrix 801s that is no bad system and a complement to a great speaker.
                              I am wondering if that wan't be the outcome.

                              I have to wait 3 weeks before I know.

                              Thanks to you and everyone else who reacted.

                              Comment

                              • Hammie
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 304

                                #16
                                Originally posted by windshear
                                Have you owned a CRT projector, you know they still are very good
                                What have you done with your old 4:3 aspect ratio material, i have lots so i have the best of both worlds. Plus im waiting for it to die before i replace it, maybe my sell by date will arrive before it dies. :T

                                Ok back on topic ....... 802Di's
                                Sorry about that. I was just having a little fun. No offense was meant by my 4:3 comment.
                                Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                                Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                                Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                                Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                                B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                                Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                                My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                                Next Upgrade: Cables

                                Comment

                                • Canuck525
                                  Member
                                  • Sep 2010
                                  • 31

                                  #17
                                  I had the Matrix 801 III. They are very good speakers in the right room( 40 foot long).If the room is smaller the bass will sound loose and boomy. I also had the 802D which I really wasn't crazy about.They were quite veiled compared to the 801 III . I now have the 800 Diamond.In a word WOW!!!! These things are incredible but give them a few hundred hours to get there(when the crossover gets broken in).I have never enjoyed a system as much as this.

                                  Comment

                                  • azazel
                                    Member
                                    • Dec 2010
                                    • 31

                                    #18
                                    I have owned the matrix 801s3 and now have some N802. I think one bass driver in each speaker works better than two, so I would love to get some N801 although I doubt they go much louder as the heads are the same as the 802, but I prefer the looks of the N802 which I think is the nicest looking speaker in the range. I loved my matrix 801 and enjoyed listening to them just as much, but the midrange is a great improvement with the Nautilus heads and tweeters. I would worry about overdriving the diamond models as the tweeters are so expensive to replace.

                                    Comment

                                    • Pedro
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jan 2006
                                      • 303

                                      #19
                                      Overdriving isnt a problem especially for speakers which goes very low impedances like N802 or 802D, the more power you have the less is the risk to damage tweeters. I don´t know many recalls about broken diamonds tweeters, one of the reasons is they dont "ring" so much at high levels as the Nautilus. For example at -6dB you got 50khz for Nautilus and 33Khz for diamonds, that´s why nautilus can more easily broken.

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      Searching...Please wait.
                                      An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                      Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                      An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                      Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                      An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                      There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                      Search Result for "|||"