804D Audition/Comparison

[mrciave]

802D/802Di distant comparison

For what is worth, I got the chance to listen to 802Di in a shop with full Accuphase front-end, and I can try to compare them with my 802D that I have at home (but with completely different front-end). I guess this would apply to any D-Di model comparison.

My impression is that the new series is sure more revealing, bass is "tighter" or "drier", details are more in evidence, sound is brighter, BUT... IMHO, the BUT is that the new series is less musical.

At least with my 802D, it seems like they are music machines that are perfectly at home with classic music, sure they have their pros and cons, but you are listening to music, not to your audio system.

The new series seems to go in the direction of "the girl with the guitar and some bells in the background", but the musical and emotional involvment seems a bit artificial.

Summarizing, the old series could be defined as reflexive, discrete, humble, subtle and maybe British, while the new series is a bit more aggressive, slap-it-in-your-face, modern, un-natural.

Anyway, I've gone through different front-ends and cables-tables-spikes-... with my speakers, and I'm pretty sure none of these modifications would turn the D into Di series (just to confirm that the different environment/front-end of the shop is not the cause of the differences).

Just my two cents.

Andrea

[bigburner]

BUT... IMHO, the BUT is that the new series is less musical.

At least with my 802D, it seems like they are music machines that are perfectly at home with classic music, sure they have their pros and cons, but you are listening to music, not to your audio system.

The new series seems to go in the direction of "the girl with the guitar and some bells in the background", but the musical and emotional involvment seems a bit artificial.

Summarizing, the old series could be defined as reflexive, discrete, humble, subtle and maybe British, while the new series is a bit more aggressive, slap-it-in-your-face, modern, un-natural.

If you're right Andrea perhaps the new Diamond series will be to B&W what the Edsel range was to Ford?

Probably not, but the Edsel is an amazing story of failure which is worth a few minutes of your time folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel

Nigel.

[style]

Hi Andrea,

the new DI serie for me is yes "tighter" or "drier", details are more in evidence...like you have wrote (in LF) is more surgery is as sound in the low frequencies, very controlled than before but not to say that music seems to me too!
I speak from my upgrade from 803D to 803DI...
comparison between 802D and 803DI, in my living room is full advantage of new 803DI.
I have the 802D I've bought and discarded the 803DI.

surgery is as sound in the low frequencies, very controlled than before but not to say that music seems to me too!
I speak from my 803D to pasaggio 803DI.
comparison between 802D and 803DI, in my living room is full advantage of new 803DI.
I have the 802D I've bought and discarded the 803DI.

The 802DI was certain that would be super, but even if I 60m3 available.. the 802 would not have had room to play at the top. (placed in a "correct" and sonicals position..)

Style

[beden1]

Hi Andrea,

the new DI serie for me is yes "tighter" or "drier", details are more in evidence...like you have wrote (in LF) is more surgery is as sound in the low frequencies, very controlled than before but not to say that music seems to me too!
I speak from my upgrade from 803D to 803DI...
comparison between 802D and 803DI, in my living room is full advantage of new 803DI.
I have the 802D I've bought and discarded the 803DI.

surgery is as sound in the low frequencies, very controlled than before but not to say that music seems to me too!
I speak from my 803D to pasaggio 803DI.
comparison between 802D and 803DI, in my living room is full advantage of new 803DI.
I have the 802D I've bought and discarded the 803DI.

The 802DI was certain that would be super, but even if I 60m3 available.. the 802 would not have had room to play at the top. (placed in a "correct" and sonicals position..)

Style

Are you saying that you first tried the 802D in your home and now have the 803Di, or, you had the 803Di and now have the 802D?

[mrciave]

If you're right Andrea perhaps the new Diamond series will be to B&W what the Edsel range was to Ford?

Probably not, but the Edsel is an amazing story of failure which is worth a few minutes of your time folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel

Nigel.

I hope not! Interesting story anyway...

But I guess it's all down to personal taste. For me both series are great speakers, and I believe at this level it's more of a "different" rather than "better" or "worse".

For sure there will be objective improvements in the Di series (technology goes on and if used wisely it surely produces good results). Whether the objective improvements are also perceived as a nicer or more realistic sound, that's another story.

I still could not listen to a live jazz session where the bass is not boomy or the room is not creating reflections, deteriorating 'focus"... Lately I've spent some time trying to figure out "how big and clearly located is an instrument" played live, and how big and focused it feels in my home with various recordings... Guess what, in live sessions focus is very poor and instruments keep changing location, size and tone. So???

Andrea

[beden1]

I hope not! Interesting story anyway...

But I guess it's all down to personal taste. For me both series are great speakers, and I believe at this level it's more of a "different" rather than "better" or "worse".

For sure there will be objective improvements in the Di series (technology goes on and if used wisely it surely produces good results). Whether the objective improvements are also perceived as a nicer or more realistic sound, that's another story.

I still could not listen to a live jazz session where the bass is not boomy or the room is not creating reflections, deteriorating 'focus"... Lately I've spent some time trying to figure out "how big and clearly located is an instrument" played live, and how big and focused it feels in my home with various recordings... Guess what, in live sessions focus is very poor and instruments keep changing location, size and tone. So???

Andrea

It's been about a week since I auditioned the 804Di and I'm supposed to get them tomorrow.

It's hard sometimes to use common usage words to describe sounds and the associated emotions one gets from listening to music. But, my initial reaction is to say that I essentially found the 804Di to be more musical overall than my 803Ds, in the room where I listened to them, and driven with that particular system.

So far, I'd have to say that the 804D produced more vibrato and tremolo, along with an extended wavelength in the lower registers as compared to the 803D, when played in an acoustically dampened listening room which is typical of what I find at most dealer showrooms.

[mrciave]

It's been about a week since I auditioned the 804Di and I'm supposed to get them tomorrow.

It's hard sometimes to use common usage words to describe sounds and the associated emotions one gets from listening to music. But, my initial reaction is to say that I essentially found the 804Di to be more musical overall than my 803Ds, in the room where I listened to them, and driven with that particular system.

So far, I'd have to say that the 804D produced more vibrato and tremolo, along with an extended wavelength in the lower registers as compared to the 803D, when played in an acoustically dampened listening room which is typical of what I find at most dealer showrooms.

Absolutely not meaning to spoil the party. You chose what you prefer, and that will keep you happy for a long time.

And I also guess that, if many people is preferring the Di series over the D, there must be a reason (style even chose the 803Di over the 802D, so...).

I also see that many Di supporters are actually previous B&W owners (many of them D owners), and it's well known that, after getting used to a certain sound, you tend to search what your now settled ears are missing. I can imagine myself, in a few years, looking for more clarity or detail. But I just became a 802D owner a few months ago, and previously I had Diapason Micra II, so I guess I was looking for full range, impact and involvment.

Maybe in 5 years we're all here again saying that the Di series is actually too thin, airy or bright, and the new 800Pl series by B&W (where Pl stands for Plutonium) is more subtle, discrete...

Life is a spinning wheel!

[beden1]

Absolutely not meaning to spoil the party. You chose what you prefer, and that will keep you happy for a long time.

And I also guess that, if many people is preferring the Di series over the D, there must be a reason (style even chose the 803Di over the 802D, so...).

I also see that many Di supporters are actually previous B&W owners (many of them D owners), and it's well known that, after getting used to a certain sound, you tend to search what your now settled ears are missing. I can imagine myself, in a few years, looking for more clarity or detail. But I just became a 802D owner a few months ago, and previously I had Diapason Micra II, so I guess I was looking for full range, impact and involvment.

Maybe in 5 years we're all here again saying that the Di series is actually too thin, airy or bright, and the new 800Pl series by B&W (where Pl stands for Plutonium) is more subtle, discrete...

Life is a spinning wheel!

Don't get me wrong about the D series versus the Di series. I really like my 803Ds and I am not thinking of replacing them. They are now performing extremely well in the large expansive and more lively room they are in, and aided by a suitable electronics system. It's quite possible that the Di Series would not work as well, because my room is on the brighter side?

It's my initial impression that the 804Di will work very well in the more dampened room where I will be placing them, and where their apparent more open nature may be better for this particular system.

[mrciave]

Don't get me wrong about the D series versus the Di series. I really like my 803Ds and I am not thinking of replacing them. They are now performing extremely well in the large expansive and more lively room they are in, and aided by a suitable electronics system. It's quite possible that the Di Series would not work as well, because my room is on the brighter side?

It's my initial impression that the 804Di will work very well in the more dampened room where I will be placing them, and where their apparent more open nature may be better for this particular system.

This is an interesting point of view, the concatenation of tonal balance of speaker + the one of the room. With the 802D, I so far did not work on the room (which is still with two out of four walls completely empty), the room is really lively, but the Ds are able to shine even in such a difficult environment.

On the other hand, I can say that my old system (Diapason Micra II) played in 7 different rooms/houses, with completely different materials/dimensions/furniture, and it was still pretty much the same. OK, probably the comparison fits that a Corolla will drive pretty much the same on any road, while an F1 car (or an Indy for you guys in the US) will need to be tweaked for each circuit. But still... I wonder if a Di in a damped room will match a D in a lively one.

Anyway, next in my plan is to work a bit on the room (but WAF plays a big role here :lol: ), so I'll take into account that with the D I should not kill too much the room, or finally I'll want to buy a new set of Di :roll: .

[style]

Brooks, I had tried the 802D and the 803DI: my choice is be for the 803DI.

my room is 10meter long x 6 meter but the system is placed in the 6 meter not to the long side of the room and this is not the top: the "old" 803D was occasionaly with a "boomy" effect, with the new 803DI this effect is no more present: the sound go away in all the space without problem...
the sound that you go have from your system is at the 40% made from the room!!!
a system from 100'000 $$ in a bad location can have a sound not so agreable like a system from the 1/3 of this price in a "good" location....

Yes Andrea, I agree: is diferent not "better or worse"...at first is a personal taste.....
you have a 802D in stereo and is very different vs. a 803D in a 5 channel system (htm2D as center and rear speaker...) Or?

I made a set like you Brook: a 2 channel with a turntable in 30m3 ca.
maybe with a integrat, cd player and turntable...(a Pass int150 second hand?!) I like the Vienna Beethoven as speakers: are very musical especailly with the female voices, in a jazz, jazz/blues,....

THe 804D was my first speaker wenn B&W present the new DI serie.
With my friend from B&W was organized a pair of 804D in pianoBlack to replace the 803D but dont will be a great idea...--> listen the 804D at B&W: great,super,amazing....but from a 803D main speakers in a multichannel system and replace with the 804DI uhmmm...the 803DI is be the best choice.
the 802D old serie is a great speaker, all the respect from one of the vest speaker never made but for MY system the 803DI is the top...

Style

[beden1]

Brooks, I had tried the 802D and the 803DI: my choice is be for the 803DI.

my room is 10meter long x 6 meter but the system is placed in the 6 meter not to the long side of the room and this is not the top: the "old" 803D was occasionaly with a "boomy" effect, with the new 803DI this effect is no more present: the sound go away in all the space without problem...
the sound that you go have from your system is at the 40% made from the room!!!
a system from 100'000 $$ in a bad location can have a sound not so agreable like a system from the 1/3 of this price in a "good" location....

Yes Andrea, I agree: is diferent not "better or worse"...at first is a personal taste.....
you have a 802D in stereo and is very different vs. a 803D in a 5 channel system (htm2D as center and rear speaker...) Or?

I made a set like you Brook: a 2 channel with a turntable in 30m3 ca.
maybe with a integrat, cd player and turntable...(a Pass int150 second hand?!) I like the Vienna Beethoven as speakers: are very musical especailly with the female voices, in a jazz, jazz/blues,....

THe 804D was my first speaker wenn B&W present the new DI serie.
With my friend from B&W was organized a pair of 804D in pianoBlack to replace the 803D but dont will be a great idea...--> listen the 804D at B&W: great,super,amazing....but from a 803D main speakers in a multichannel system and replace with the 804DI uhmmm...the 803DI is be the best choice.
the 802D old serie is a great speaker, all the respect from one of the vest speaker never made but for MY system the 803DI is the top...

Style

I am setting up my stereo system in our finished basement because my family spends much of their time in our family room watching TV. Same thing with your family, or why not just add a turntable to your SSP-800 and 803Dis?

I have a gym set up in our basement too, so I can get in shape body and mind while listening to some great tunes! :T

I'm hoping to pick up my speakers and turntable tomorrow and just plug them in as everything else is already set up. The only thing that I am not looking forward to is cleaning my 400+ record collection that has not been used in 15+ years. :E I have those cleaning supplies being delivered tomorrow also.

All of the other pieces of the system are ones that I have used in other systems over the years. I'm happy to be able to use them again.

[ShadowZA]

...
I have a gym set up in our basement too, so I can get in shape body and mind while listening to some great tunes! :T ...

Now that is perfect! :T :T :T

[RebelMan]

I have a gym set up in our basement too, so I can get in shape body and mind while listening to some great tunes! :T

:rofl: Too funny.

The only thing that I am not looking forward to is cleaning my 400+ record collection that has not been used in 15+ years.

Wow-and-Flutter Batman! 8O How did you stack them, horizontally or vertically?

[beden1]

:rofl: Too funny.

Wow-and-Flutter Batman! 8O How did you stack them, horizontally or vertically?

Vertically and somewhat snug on the bottom shelves of a wooden wall unit. I didn't want them to warp. I put them back into alphabetical order last night and looked at each album to check out their condition. Fortunately, 97% of mine have either none or very few light scratches, but the opposite is true of my wife's albums from college! 8O

Also, it appears that my son and his friends got their hands on the Pink Floyd albums when they were in middle and high school. Those have finger prints all over them and a some scratches.

I planned on cleaning all of them anyway just to start off right, and then just use a record brush to dust before listening. I'm also going to place the records in rice paper and the album covers in plastic sleeves.

I'll do it this weekend while watching college and pro football games.

[style]

beden I have too the same "problem": the sistem with the 803Di is in a room not "only for music"
ShadowZA have see the pictures from my sistem and can give you feedback...

I will have a "privat room" for my privat investigation! ! ! :W

no gym set up in my basement but a bier will be available :lol:

and a new "Local attic under the roof" is on the air... :T

style

[beden1]

I picked up my 804Ds and a new turntable on Friday, and was able to get them set up in my room without incident, fortunately. The 804Ds are definitely easier to move around than were the 803Ds, and I'm sure the 802Ds and 800Ds! :T

They sound great, and I think I have them positioned properly now after numerous adjustments. I discovered some reverberation in the room which surprised me since there are suspended ceiling tiles and wall-to-wall thin pile carpeting, along with some furniture, book shelves, and the gym equipment? The system is positioned on and around an entertainment center in a corner of the room, and I think the back joining walls are causing the reverb. I hung some canvas pictures that my daughter was storing from college and they have helped quite a bit. I'm going to research some acoustic panels to install down the road. I may also get a couple of bass traps, although the bass seems pretty focused.

My greatest surprise was hearing how good the system sounds using my Aragon 24K preamp and Aragon 8008 amp. I have had the preamp in storage for about 23 years and only used it for about a year before going into an HT system. The 8008 was used for outboard power in an HT system, so I never heard them together in a stereo system before.

The dealer where I bought my turntable used to be an Aragon dealer, and said the amp was designed by the same engineer who went on to design a number of Levinson's best amps. At any rate, the system is very detailed with terrific clarity and a dead quiet background, and with a full body of sound. I think it's less forgiving of lousy recordings than I find my Classe amps, but it's been great for records and my older (not mixed with the gain maxed out) CDs.

I need to bring my Sony ES CD player up from FL, along with some cables and odds and ends. I will probably also bring my Classe CP-500 preamp up to hear how it sounds, but, I think I'm liking the current setup.

The 804Ds are perfect for my room, and I think anything larger would be overkill. I am just so thrilled to have a stereo system again, and in a room where I can listen without disturbing the household. It's like going home again. :B

[garak]

Congrats Beden! That should give you some extra motivation to get in the gym.

[beden1]

Congrats Beden! That should give you some extra motivation to get in the gym.

Everyday since Friday! Plus, I think I've listened to more music in the past five days than I have during the past year. :T

[mrciave]

Everyday since Friday! Plus, I think I've listened to more music in the past five days than I have during the past year. :T

Well done and congrats!

I see what you mean, I have a job that allows me home office, which means a table and a laptop in front of my 802Ds.

The sound is so good that sometimes I get distracted from the work

[Skyblue]

Well done and congrats!

I see what you mean, I have a job that allows me home office, which means a table and a laptop in front of my 802Ds.

The sound is so good that sometimes I get distracted from the work

Hehe, I have a headfi setup in my home office. Its so good, that I went down to work here at 23:17.

[emig5m]

[beden1]

Well done and congrats!

I see what you mean, I have a job that allows me home office, which means a table and a laptop in front of my 802Ds.

The sound is so good that sometimes I get distracted from the work

802Ds in your office! :E I wouldn't get much work done either! :T

[beden1]

Still trying to get the room set up. In the mean time, just use your imagination! :B

[beden1]

I listened to Leonard Bernstein and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra playing the Gershwin Rhapsody In Blue last night and it was spectacular. Good enough that I also brought out some Jazz albums that my parents had back in the day. The 804Ds are starting to really open up and they sound stunning. I think they are the best money I've spent so far in this crazy hobby.

I forgot to mention that I listened to the 804Ds powered by a McIntosh MC275 tube amplifier while I was there to pick up my speakers. For those of you who think all amplifiers sound the same, you need to listen to this amp to see how wrong you are. The sound was luscious, fluid and dark, yet full of detail with a smoothness that was like being lulled to sleep. Kind of like you're wrapped in a warm blanket in front of the fireplace after coming in from a day of snow skiing. I almost bought it right there as it was so good, but I stopped myself as I hate making on the spot decisions when it comes to this hobby.

I don't know much about maintaining a tube amp, so I will do some research. I was also amazed about how much sound came out of an amp delivering only 75 watts per channel, and how well the 804Ds responded with this amp.

[RebelMan]

I forgot to mention that I listened to the 804Ds powered by a McIntosh MC275 tube amplifier while I was there to pick up my speakers. For those of you who think all amplifiers sound the same, you need to listen to this amp to see how wrong you are. The sound was luscious, fluid and dark, yet full of detail with a smoothness that was like being lulled to sleep. Kind of like you're wrapped in a warm blanket in front of the fireplace after coming in from a day of snow skiing. I almost bought it right there as it was so good, but I stopped myself as I hate making on the spot decisions when it comes to this hobby.

I don't know much about maintaining a tube amp, so I will do some research. I was also amazed about how much sound came out of an amp delivering only 75 watts per channel, and how well the 804Ds responded with this amp.

Amen brother! The MC275 is an amazing amplifier. You forgot to mention the beautiful and prodigious bass output from that 50+ year old inspired amp too. If I were a Mac head this amp would be at the top of my list. In fact if I became a Mac head it would be because of this amp. It really is that good. A DEFINITE MUST listen with the B&Ws. I heard them with the 802D and Classe' CP-500 pre-amplifier.

beden1, if you were that close to pick them up it's a no brainer to get, seriously.

[beden1]

Amen brother! The MC275 is an amazing amplifier. You forgot to mention the beautiful and prodigious bass output from that 50+ year old inspired amp too. If I were a Mac head this amp would be at the top of my list. In fact if I became a Mac head it would be because of this amp. It really is that good. A DEFINITE MUST listen with the B&Ws. I heard them with the 802D and Classe' CP-500 pre-amplifier.

beden1, if you were that close to pick them up it's a no brainer to get, seriously.

The bass was really alive with full depth as well, and your right, I should have mentioned it! :T

The MC275 also drove a pair of 802Ds well, or was it used as a mono amp (you said "them")?

From what I read, it seems many people do use them as mono blocks, but, it seemed to do very well on it's own? I also have to qualify that I would be using it for stereo only in a room that is 23'Wx21'Lx7'2"H.

That's the thing I have been wrestling with during this past week. The sound I'm hearing through my system now is very detailed, fast and full bodied. I'm finding it exciting and enjoyable to listen to.

Or, do I go with the darker lush sound of the MC275, which first appears more layed back and perhaps subtle, but then it keeps surprising you when you hear instruments that reveal that it is not missing out on anything?

[RebelMan]

The MC275 also drove a pair of 802Ds well, or was it used as a mono amp (you said "them")?

From what I read, it seems many people do use them as mono blocks, but, it seemed to do very well on it's own? I also have to qualify that I would be using it for stereo only in a room that is 23'Wx21'Lx7'2"H.

There were two, each bridged. I think one would be sufficient for a pair of 804D2 but if not you could always add another if need be.

That's the thing I have been wrestling with during this past week. The sound I'm hearing through my system now is very detailed, fast and full bodied. I'm finding it exciting and enjoyable to listen to.

Or, do I go with the darker lush sound of the MC275, which first appears more layed back and perhaps subtle, but then it keeps surprising you when you hear instruments that reveal that it is not missing out on anything.

I do not have any experience with Aragon amplifiers so I have nothing to compare them too. All I can say was the combination of B&W, Classe' and McIntosh in that setting was sublime. Who would have thought.

What front-end were they using?

[beden1]

There were two, each bridged. I think one would be sufficient for a pair of 804D2 but if not you could always add another if need be.

I do not have any experience with Aragon amplifiers so I have nothing to compare them too. All I can say was the combination of B&W, Classe' and McIntosh in that setting was sublime. Who would have thought.

What front-end were they using?

They had a Teac Esoteric CD player and a McIntosh C500 solid state preamplifier. The salesman did comment that he felt my CP-500 would do very well in combination with the MC275.

When I first auditioned my 804Ds the week before, it was in the same room as where we listened to them driven by the MC275. They were initially driven by a pair of MC501s and some very high end preamp that I never did ask what it was.

[specialized]

They had a Teac Esoteric CD player and a McIntosh C500 solid state preamplifier. The salesman did comment that he felt my CP-500 would do very well in combination with the MC275.

When I first auditioned my 804Ds the week before, it was in the same room as where we listened to them driven by the MC275. They were initially driven by a pair of MC501s and some very high end preamp that I never did ask what it was.

I had a chance to try MC275 with my 803s. The vocals, or acoustic instruments sound very good.. Very emotive. But.. When there was more dynamic section or more instruments in same time, it feel like there is more power needed. I also think a lot to get MC275 or not, but at the end i found out that ill definitly need one more to use it as mono blocks, and also i was afraid that maybe more maintence is needed with the tubes.. So maybe MC501 is better idea.. How u like MC501 compared to MC275?


Darko

[beden1]

I had a chance to try MC275 with my 803s. The vocals, or acoustic instruments sound very good.. Very emotive. But.. When there was more dynamic section or more instruments in same time, it feel like there is more power needed. I also think a lot to get MC275 or not, but at the end i found out that ill definitly need one more to use it as mono blocks, and also i was afraid that maybe more maintence is needed with the tubes.. So maybe MC501 is better idea.. How u like MC501 compared to MC275?


Darko

You bring up the same concerns that I have regarding the MC275 and tube amps in general. I do like it enough to go back and listen for any areas where it may lack in headroom. But, I really do not want to get involved in the expense of getting two of them.

I had originally planned to put this stereo system together using equipment that I already had in storage, with the exception of a set of speakers that I needed. I felt the equipment was very good when I bought it 20+ years ago and it still sounds good.

I just wish that I had not heard the MC275 because it did sound really sweet! That's how it goes with this hobby...the grass always appears to be greener on the other side of the road! :B

[mrciave]

Don't worry about the other side of the road... The neighbours always keep the greenest grass in front, but the junk is piled up behind the house.

IMHO, when I switched from small stand monitors to the big 802D with a proper solid state amp, I just realized how much of the music from my CDs I was losing in the lower portion of the spectrum. I also realized how much of the "real" feeling comes, for example, from the dynamics or the bass that only full range speakers driven by proper current amps are capable of.

So, back to the tubes, yes they'll be much sweeter till they run out of juice, but after... All that sweetness is forgotten. Underdriven speakers are doing no justice to the music.

My current line of thinking? If I should build a second system with a lower budget than the main one, I'd rather give away some detail and resolution, but keep the full range and dynamics.

That's why tubes, for me, are a no-go for power amplifiers.

[style]

Brooks the 804 and the 2 ch. system make fun without end!!
I have just listen in Zürich "simply system" with a little speakers" like the 804Di, a TT rega24 and project Debut= very entry level TT with prephono from Lehmann(more expensive as the TT) but for me is more as enough. In my little city vinyls are not avialble a friend go buy the vinyl from Milaan!! to a little town big store with "all in inside"... at very good price!! (and Millan is not a little city but is better go to this store.big-center (-> italy lie MediaMarket!!?? for mrciave!)

I have a old collection of vinyls (500lp ca.) and I don't will go buy a 5000$ TT without a possiility to have vinyls in a store near my home.. (I wait a reponse from a Mitchell, I have a big order to go - 15 TT = I go have a very good price) if dont go A Rega in black or withe - project Debut for eis more as enough....I go make the rst of mymoney in a CD player sacd Maranzt or so like that...


For the Ampli MC is very Old school and with all respect i dont like this product...is good only becouse the price is appetible but nothing more...
the ONLY VERY original MCintosh "product " is the 275 tube ampli... here I can say maybe for the other (252,402,501 NO Thank) but is my personal taste ops:

the CDplayer from MC is not a good choice....(ok, the Top of the line is good but we speak from a $. 15k player?) the preampli CP500 with phono card (maybe try a extern prephono?!) the TT Rega 24 (what for color?) , 804DI, cd player I LIKE IT!!! the Aragon never listen well I dont't not...
a Esoeric SA50 is a dream player, like the MC275 - i agree with Rebelman - is THE only MC product ver, very good with amazing sound...and with a TT
famale voices gice you a very satisfection!!!

Style

[mrciave]

Brooks the 804 and the 2 ch. system make fun without end!!
I have just listen in Zürich "simply system" with a little speakers" like the 804Di, a TT rega24 and project Debut= very entry level TT with prephono from Lehmann(more expensive as the TT) but for me is more as enough. In my little city vinyls are not avialble a friend go buy the vinyl from Milaan!! to a little town big store with "all in inside"... at very good price!! (and Millan is not a little city but is better go to this store.big-center (-> italy lie MediaMarket!!?? for mrciave!)

For me this year the expenses are enough. I went for SA-50, Gryphon, 802D, Kubala-Sosna, Finite-Elemente all in one year!!! Crazy but...

In the future I'm also thinking about a TT, the problem is I have just maybe 50-100LP of classic music between father and uncle, they don't use them anymore... So I guess it'll be a entry level or medium TT, just to use the LPs, but I don't want to search for new LPs (also my town is quite small)... In MediaWorld big shops there's just crap!

a Esoeric SA50 is a dream player, like the MC275 - i agree with Rebelman - is THE only MC product ver, very good with amazing sound...and with a TT
famale voices gice you a very satisfection!!!

Style

As you know I've got the SA-50 player, it's sure good as CD/SACD, and it has the plus of one coax, one optical and one usb inputs. So I've got the DVD player connected by coax, the PS2 by optical, and planning to add a MacMini by USB.

Concerning overall sound quality, in a few weeks a friend will come over with his Esoteric X-01LTD and we'll compare... If the X01 is better, no worry, I spent 1/3rd of what my friend spent, but if the SA-50 is not so far from the X01... we'll he's going to cry :rofl: .

[style]

wrote .....

Hi mrciave,

fir the Esoteric is reallly a peronal testa AND is not a gold with ...


I had Mr. Faber at my home: he have connect a "power bar" in designlike the vibex from Spain (sell fron the Nagra dealer) but much, much better !!
in a "vibex" if you can open it the cables are all together!! yes, is not present like in the brouhere a "isolation from very input from the 4 pr 6 input shuko: Faber make a power steell box from 10kg. with inside a bos in box: every cable is not visible from the other.....super Job from Mr.Faber.
I have vuy a "combo" cables, source and interconects cables from Faber: my system und open like never befor.
Faber say the your freind with a Esoteric x03?! limited edition in a blind test with a meridian trasporter from €. 500 (probuct no more in caltogue) your freind say the Meriaden vs, the 20 x more expesinsive Esoteric!!!!!


the Esoteric is a big brand this is ure: at the Top Aiudio Milaan Faber spook with a ingeniering from Esoretic and had in your and a "movement part" from the cd player: He say me that was realy amazing but before listen and than say/write...decide...for me with a great SA50 or maxa x05 you have a very great olayer.....the system in not Only the plaxer!!!

[mrciave]

It's a small world, Mr. Faber's at your place... But we are stealing the thread from beden1 :E !

Anyway I already bougth the SA-50, not planning to change... But it's incredible the sensitivity to power cables and to the rack. I mean, here we all talk about amp A, speaker B, player C, whatever, but to be honest... When I first brought my electronics and speakers home they sounded like crap.

OK, not crap, but crap for the price paid. My girlfriend asked me "How the hell you spend 10 times the previous system and the difference is so small???".

Well, it turned out that, after proper speaker and interconnects, antivibration feet for the speakers and the amplifier (luckily Esoteric already put proper feet on their electronics), the power cords and now the anti-vibration rack... Well now I did a back to back with the old system and the old one was switched off after one song!

Now the bottleneck is the untreated room, need to work on that...

[beden1]

It's a small world, Mr. Faber's at your place... But we are stealing the thread from beden1 :E !

Anyway I already bougth the SA-50, not planning to change... But it's incredible the sensitivity to power cables and to the rack. I mean, here we all talk about amp A, speaker B, player C, whatever, but to be honest... When I first brought my electronics and speakers home they sounded like crap.

OK, not crap, but crap for the price paid. My girlfriend asked me "How the hell you spend 10 times the previous system and the difference is so small???".

Well, it turned out that, after proper speaker and interconnects, antivibration feet for the speakers and the amplifier (luckily Esoteric already put proper feet on their electronics), the power cords and now the anti-vibration rack... Well now I did a back to back with the old system and the old one was switched off after one song!

Now the bottleneck is the untreated room, need to work on that...

Feel free to steal my thread. This type of off topic banter is how we all learn about new things. :T

[beden1]

Brooks the 804 and the 2 ch. system make fun without end!!
I have just listen in Zürich "simply system" with a little speakers" like the 804Di, a TT rega24 and project Debut= very entry level TT with prephono from Lehmann(more expensive as the TT) but for me is more as enough. In my little city vinyls are not avialble a friend go buy the vinyl from Milaan!! to a little town big store with "all in inside"... at very good price!! (and Millan is not a little city but is better go to this store.big-center (-> italy lie MediaMarket!!?? for mrciave!)

I have a old collection of vinyls (500lp ca.) and I don't will go buy a 5000$ TT without a possiility to have vinyls in a store near my home.. (I wait a reponse from a Mitchell, I have a big order to go - 15 TT = I go have a very good price) if dont go A Rega in black or withe - project Debut for eis more as enough....I go make the rst of mymoney in a CD player sacd Maranzt or so like that...


For the Ampli MC is very Old school and with all respect i dont like this product...is good only becouse the price is appetible but nothing more...
the ONLY VERY original MCintosh "product " is the 275 tube ampli... here I can say maybe for the other (252,402,501 NO Thank) but is my personal taste ops:

the CDplayer from MC is not a good choice....(ok, the Top of the line is good but we speak from a $. 15k player?) the preampli CP500 with phono card (maybe try a extern prephono?!) the TT Rega 24 (what for color?) , 804DI, cd player I LIKE IT!!! the Aragon never listen well I dont't not...
a Esoeric SA50 is a dream player, like the MC275 - i agree with Rebelman - is THE only MC product ver, very good with amazing sound...and with a TT
famale voices gice you a very satisfection!!!

Style

Hi Omar,

I like the Raga 24 TT. It has a strong and steady motor, is quiet, and the sound is very good. I put some Bright Star Isopads under the feet of the turntable and it stopped the echo you get when you thump the TT base, and probably any external vibrations that would affect the sound.

Many/most LP records have pops and other noises when playing due to handling or damage (scratches) from use (or dirt). The background on LPs sounds like you are listening in a room with a fire roaring in the background. That's why personally I could never understand why some people pay the big money for their TT and cartridge? The biggest benefit I witnessed once, was when I was shown how the more expensive TT/cartridge was able to limit the background noises on some records. But for that, they also make a solution that is supposed to stop many noises on the records, and sells for about $20.

[style]

Hi Brooks, I agree with 100% I dont can understand wy the poeple willl pay 3k. $$$ for a TT and bes ure the is a world better vs. the other TT from 50$$$.... but is so, i pay alot of money an I have the top....in high end is not always so!!!! 8O 8O
nrciave hey man.. wenn you are a he top if the Eberest in not easy have a better mointain to be on the top. from a player from 5k euro and another from 10k euro is sue a diffenret BUT little, very little vs. a player froma entry level cd player and a d player from 2000euro!!!!

from the 200euro player the difference is audiblie and present!!! but from a top from X company and aother player at goo level from Y model with a diferent in money from 1k euro is not easy fin the diffferent!!!
Is u ae on the top of the montain go 10 meter more high is no s onotable like from a 1000meter to 8000 meters!!!!

Or???

style

[alebonau]

Hi Omar,

I like the Raga 24 TT. It has a strong and steady motor, is quiet, and the sound is very good. I put some Bright Star Isopads under the feet of the turntable and it stopped the echo you get when you thump the TT base, and probably any external vibrations that would affect the sound.

Many/most LP records have pops and other noises when playing due to handling or damage (scratches) from use (or dirt). The background on LPs sounds like you are listening in a room with a fire roaring in the background. That's why personally I could never understand why some people pay the big money for their TT and cartridge? The biggest benefit I witnessed once, was when I was shown how the more expensive TT/cartridge was able to limit the background noises on some records. But for that, they also make a solution that is supposed to stop many noises on the records, and sells for about $20.

Beden if your records sound like listening in a room with fire roaring, they must be in god awe full condition. I have plenty of Lps some over 40 years old sound beautiful and with a pretty quiet background little to no contribution from surface sound.

Re tts I had a p25 which is a step up from the p3-24. And moving upto a p9 was massive step improvement. Prior to getting the p9 I did run my ortofon jubilee on the p25 and can tell you it too was quite a jump up from $400 mc10 supreme cartridge ran before. Phono stage make a massive difference too. I run the audio research ph5 tube stage. Which is a beautiful combo for the jubilee and the p9.

Look I do think with tts every upgrade have done has paid back in spade fulls. At the end everyone needs to determine for them selves just how far want to go and whether upgrades worth it to them. I found more gains in tt upgrades then spending past a certain point in cd and Sacd players.

With the p3-24 best upgrade can do is the ttpsu, If haven't done already takes pretty close to a p5, though that does have better arm and plinth, id be first to say for many the p3-24 with ttpsu likely the sweet spot in vinyl

[beden1]

Beden if your records sound like listening in a room with fire roaring, they must be in god awe full condition. I have plenty of Lps some over 40 years old sound beautiful and with a pretty quiet background little to no contribution from surface sound.

Re tts I had a p25 which is a step up from the p3-24. And moving upto a p9 was massive step improvement. Prior to getting the p9 I did run my ortofon jubilee on the p25 and can tell you it too was quite a jump up from $400 mc10 supreme cartridge ran before. Phono stage make a massive difference too. I run the audio research ph5 tube stage. Which is a beautiful combo for the jubilee and the p9.

Look I do think with tts every upgrade have done has paid back in spade fulls. At the end everyone needs to determine for them selves just how far want to go and whether upgrades worth it to them. I found more gains in tt upgrades then spending past a certain point in cd and Sacd players.

With the p3-24 best upgrade can do is the ttpsu, If haven't done already takes pretty close to a p5, though that does have better arm and plinth, id be first to say for many the p3-24 with ttpsu likely the sweet spot in vinyl

I did get the TTpsu upgrade as well. Thanks for the tip.

I was stretching it a bit by saying my records all sound like there is a fire in the fireplace. A few of my records do of course. Most of my records are from the mid-late 1960's through the 1970's and went through both my wife's and my college dorm days. A few are in need of help, but most are in very good shape.

I am in the process of cleaning many of them and replacing the inner sleeves with rice paper, along with outer cover protectors.

Even so, the backgound is not as quiet as a CD, and was one of the main reasons they sought other mediums, along with the convenience.

[alebonau]

I did get the TTpsu upgrade as well. Thanks for the tip.

I was stretching it a bit by saying my records all sound like there is a fire in the fireplace. A few of my records do of course. Most of my records are from the mid-late 1960's through the 1970's and went through both my wife's and my college dorm days. A few are in need of help, but most are in very good shape.

I am in the process of cleaning many of them and replacing the inner sleeves with rice paper, along with outer cover protectors.

Even so, the backgound is not as quiet as a CD, and was one of the main reasons they sought other mediums, along with the convenience.

Hi be den if some old favorites a bit worse from wear, do give them a clean, might get a bit more out of em, but look if had a very hard and long life perhaps just past it and beyond help. If the case have a peep at music stack and discogs, both these website scours the vinyl resellers around the world and have been rather surprised to find the odd very old favorite of mine in mint condition and for not many dollars ! Some absolute treasures out there and just waiting for the taking :B

[beden1]

I have been listening to my other system for the past 3+ weeks, which is a complete HT setup with 803Ds in a large expansive room with 24' high ceilings. This room is more lively yet controlled with tight bass.

Comparing stereo only: IMO, the 804Di(s)/Di Series are best suited for a more dampened room, and the 803Ds/D Series are excellent for a room with brighter acoustics.

I also sense that the new Di Series may be more forgiving of lesser front end equipment, and are possibly easier to drive (which also equates to a fuller sound at lower volumes).

I was fearful that I would start thinking of replacing the 803Ds after getting to know the 804Di(s). Fortunately, this thought went completely out of my mind after listening to them again.

I have never listened to the Di Series for HT, but the 803Ds with the HTM2D center speaker is an exciting front end setup. Very strong with truly exceptional clarity, at least when played through the Classe SSP-800 and Classe amps.

[mrciave]

This means you were in FL in the last weeks. I was too, and got the chance to go to Roger Waters concert in Fort Lauderdale. Did you go too?

[beden1]

This means you were in FL in the last weeks. I was too, and got the chance to go to Roger Waters concert in Fort Lauderdale. Did you go too?

No unfortunately, I didn't get the chance. How was it? You traveled from Italy to see the concert? That's what I call a true fan! :T

[wettou]

Selling my 5.1 to get a pair of 800Di :T