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I visited two high end AV dealers today to make my final decision as to which pair of speakers I would buy for the stereo system that I'm putting together. This sytem will be used primarily for playing LPs and will initially consist of the following: Aragon 24K II preamp with phono stage, or a Classe CP-500 with a phono preamp; Aragon 8008 stereo amp with 200 watts per channel @ 8 ohms and 400 watts per channel @ 4 ohms; a Rega Planar 3-24 turntable with the optional TT PSU power supply and an Elys 2 phono catridge; a Sony DVP-S9000ES CD/DVD player; a Luxman Tuner; and the new B&W 804D speakers! :T
The four pairs of speakers I listened to included the Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signatures ($5,295 pair); Focal Chorus 826 V (I believe? The speakers listed for around $8,700); B&W 805D; B&W 804D.
Through my ears at least, I rate them starting at the top/best as:
1.) B&W 804D
2.) Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signature (and, it was driven by an under $1,500 NAD system to boot!)
3.) Focal 1028 Be
4.) 805D
* The B&W and Focal speakers were driven by some preamp that looked so expensive I didn't even want to ask what it was; a pair of MacIntosh 501s; a Teac Esoteric CD player; and very expensive looking interconnects, etc.
4.) 805D: for $5,700 list price including the stands = no thanks. The mids were OK and the tweeter was very good, but there is very limited depth in the lower registers. Frequency response of 49Hz-28kHz with a sensitivity of 88dB tells the story here. The speaker also needed the gain raised in order to get a decent full body sound. IMO, definitely not a standalone speaker to use as the mains, and certainly not without a sub woofer. I think they are great for surrounds, but they are also very expensive for this type of limited duty.
3.) Focal 1028 Be: list price of around $8,700. Manufacturer's link: http://www.focal-fr.com/ The quality build and the finish looked very good. Really a pleasant speaker all around, but nothing that raises my neck hairs or sends a shiver down my spine. I had the sense that the mids and highs did not have as much clarity as do my 803Ds, and do not create as much air or excitement in the upper registers.
I listened to my War CD, and the World is a Ghetto cut where there is a spectacular sax playing throughout most of the song. On my 803Ds in my other setup, the sound of the sax is so intoxicating it feels like it's playing right through your soul. On my system, you can also hear the delightful raspy sound of the saxaphones' reed with utmost clarity. The other thing that was missing, was the extended depth of the lower registers. This CD has some sections that have some real kick, and particularly from the bass drum. Not so much with the Focals. The Focals' woofers were kind of polite and controlled, and also lacked any real excitement for me.
We also listened to a CD by Christina Aguilera whose voice is really exceptional with great range and character. The 800 Diamond Series B&Ws always shine when playing a female voice. I personally think it is one of their best attibutes. With the Focals, her voice came through very good, but again, not spectacular. I also did not like hearing some sections that were straining my ears, and I was having a hard time putting my finger on the culprit. The salesman pointed out that, in his opinion, the Focals seem to place the singer in front of the stage, whereas the B&W 800 Series speakers places the singer on stage, and less in your face sort of speak. I thought this was an interesting observation, which I would agree with 100% when I later listened to the 804Ds.
But, the other thing about the Focal's Beryllium tweeter, is that it just does not have the clarity, and it is not as silky smooth as are B&Ws diamond tweeters.
2.) Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signature: List price of $5,295 plus the price of stands (?): A great speaker if you play on the louder side much of the time. It has a sensitivity of only 85dB and I would think prefers an amp that can carry it's own weight. What's interesting though, is that the Frequency Response is 29 Hz - 20 kHz ± 3 dB (B&W 805D = 49Hz-28kHz for similar money) from a speaker that is only 8.5 x 16.4 x 12". These speakers have two 6.5" woofers in them (one built inside the speakers). Manufacturer's link: http://totemacoustic.com/english/hi-...pecifications/
The construction and finish on these speakers is truly exceptional. The wood finish is better than most high end furniture I've seen. It looks like how goods were made back in the day, and by real craftsmen who actually cared about what they make. These speakers make any B&W speakers look like they were made in Detroit, for lack of any other better comparison.
The sound is exceptional even from their modified aluminum tweeter. I did sense some areas where there was a bit of harshness on some of the highs, but, I may have to blame the NAD system in this case. These speakers just did too many things exceptionally well to find any real fault with them. BUT, you have to play them at decent volume levels to let them be all that they can be, AND, I like to listen at lower levels more times than not.
The bass is truly exceptional from speakers this size, and in fact, they had a better presentation in the lower registers than I found with the much larger Focals, believe it or not. The bass is strong and has guts. I know I was surprised.
The mid ranges are very, very good... and female voices sound NEARLY as good as do the B&Ws', but just not quite as good the more you listen.
These speakers would look and do great in an apartment with a minimalist decor. Because of their size, I think their sound may get swallowed up a bit in a room that is dead sounding from too much furniture, etc. For this reason, I decided to buy the next speaker on my list.
1.) B&W 804D: List price of $7,500. Sorry, and I don't want to offend anyone, but the piano black looks cheap, particularly since I saw just about every speaker in Best Buy in pianio black, regardless of manufacturer. IMO, their previous black ash has the look of much higher quality and craftsmanship as compared to the piano black. The PB looks OK from a distance, but up close no thanks. I ordered my pair in cherry.
I listened to the 804Ds last, and up until I did, I was really not totally excited about any of the speakers. Each had their good points, and I'm not saying that I would have kicked any of them out of bed, but none of them completely stood out and screamed that they could do it all...that is until I listened to the 804Ds. I fell in love with them almost immediately too!
I was very pleased that they had a lot of personality overall, and particularly in the lower registers. But, I was awestruck when I heard the mids and highs. It was just truly great. We listened to all of the same music selections as I had heard through the other speakers, and every issue that I had with the others just disappeared with the 804Ds. Except for their smaller size as compared to my 803Ds, I have to say that I prefer these new speakers overall. These really have a beautiful sounding open spirit.
For the room and system that I am currently putting together, I am excited that these babies will be exceptional. They have more clarity and are also smoother in the upper registers than my current 803Ds. I didn't think it was possible, but B&W did raise their sound to a higher level. The salesman I was working with feels that B&W spent more time on refining the drivers and the crossovers on these speakers, and the difference definitely lies within.
They also made their floor standing diamond series speakers more efficient, with a sensitivity of 90db, and with a frequency range of 38Hz to 28kHz for the 804D.
PS: The grills on the 800 Series are held on with magnets. They work great on these speakers and are on the difficult side of pulling them off. On the CM8 and CM9 speakers that I saw in Best Buy, their grills are also held on by magnets, but they make it too easy to remove the grill, and in fact, the grill just falls off if you brush against it.
The four pairs of speakers I listened to included the Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signatures ($5,295 pair); Focal Chorus 826 V (I believe? The speakers listed for around $8,700); B&W 805D; B&W 804D.
Through my ears at least, I rate them starting at the top/best as:
1.) B&W 804D
2.) Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signature (and, it was driven by an under $1,500 NAD system to boot!)
3.) Focal 1028 Be
4.) 805D
* The B&W and Focal speakers were driven by some preamp that looked so expensive I didn't even want to ask what it was; a pair of MacIntosh 501s; a Teac Esoteric CD player; and very expensive looking interconnects, etc.
4.) 805D: for $5,700 list price including the stands = no thanks. The mids were OK and the tweeter was very good, but there is very limited depth in the lower registers. Frequency response of 49Hz-28kHz with a sensitivity of 88dB tells the story here. The speaker also needed the gain raised in order to get a decent full body sound. IMO, definitely not a standalone speaker to use as the mains, and certainly not without a sub woofer. I think they are great for surrounds, but they are also very expensive for this type of limited duty.
3.) Focal 1028 Be: list price of around $8,700. Manufacturer's link: http://www.focal-fr.com/ The quality build and the finish looked very good. Really a pleasant speaker all around, but nothing that raises my neck hairs or sends a shiver down my spine. I had the sense that the mids and highs did not have as much clarity as do my 803Ds, and do not create as much air or excitement in the upper registers.
I listened to my War CD, and the World is a Ghetto cut where there is a spectacular sax playing throughout most of the song. On my 803Ds in my other setup, the sound of the sax is so intoxicating it feels like it's playing right through your soul. On my system, you can also hear the delightful raspy sound of the saxaphones' reed with utmost clarity. The other thing that was missing, was the extended depth of the lower registers. This CD has some sections that have some real kick, and particularly from the bass drum. Not so much with the Focals. The Focals' woofers were kind of polite and controlled, and also lacked any real excitement for me.
We also listened to a CD by Christina Aguilera whose voice is really exceptional with great range and character. The 800 Diamond Series B&Ws always shine when playing a female voice. I personally think it is one of their best attibutes. With the Focals, her voice came through very good, but again, not spectacular. I also did not like hearing some sections that were straining my ears, and I was having a hard time putting my finger on the culprit. The salesman pointed out that, in his opinion, the Focals seem to place the singer in front of the stage, whereas the B&W 800 Series speakers places the singer on stage, and less in your face sort of speak. I thought this was an interesting observation, which I would agree with 100% when I later listened to the 804Ds.
But, the other thing about the Focal's Beryllium tweeter, is that it just does not have the clarity, and it is not as silky smooth as are B&Ws diamond tweeters.
2.) Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signature: List price of $5,295 plus the price of stands (?): A great speaker if you play on the louder side much of the time. It has a sensitivity of only 85dB and I would think prefers an amp that can carry it's own weight. What's interesting though, is that the Frequency Response is 29 Hz - 20 kHz ± 3 dB (B&W 805D = 49Hz-28kHz for similar money) from a speaker that is only 8.5 x 16.4 x 12". These speakers have two 6.5" woofers in them (one built inside the speakers). Manufacturer's link: http://totemacoustic.com/english/hi-...pecifications/
The construction and finish on these speakers is truly exceptional. The wood finish is better than most high end furniture I've seen. It looks like how goods were made back in the day, and by real craftsmen who actually cared about what they make. These speakers make any B&W speakers look like they were made in Detroit, for lack of any other better comparison.
The sound is exceptional even from their modified aluminum tweeter. I did sense some areas where there was a bit of harshness on some of the highs, but, I may have to blame the NAD system in this case. These speakers just did too many things exceptionally well to find any real fault with them. BUT, you have to play them at decent volume levels to let them be all that they can be, AND, I like to listen at lower levels more times than not.
The bass is truly exceptional from speakers this size, and in fact, they had a better presentation in the lower registers than I found with the much larger Focals, believe it or not. The bass is strong and has guts. I know I was surprised.
The mid ranges are very, very good... and female voices sound NEARLY as good as do the B&Ws', but just not quite as good the more you listen.
These speakers would look and do great in an apartment with a minimalist decor. Because of their size, I think their sound may get swallowed up a bit in a room that is dead sounding from too much furniture, etc. For this reason, I decided to buy the next speaker on my list.
1.) B&W 804D: List price of $7,500. Sorry, and I don't want to offend anyone, but the piano black looks cheap, particularly since I saw just about every speaker in Best Buy in pianio black, regardless of manufacturer. IMO, their previous black ash has the look of much higher quality and craftsmanship as compared to the piano black. The PB looks OK from a distance, but up close no thanks. I ordered my pair in cherry.
I listened to the 804Ds last, and up until I did, I was really not totally excited about any of the speakers. Each had their good points, and I'm not saying that I would have kicked any of them out of bed, but none of them completely stood out and screamed that they could do it all...that is until I listened to the 804Ds. I fell in love with them almost immediately too!
I was very pleased that they had a lot of personality overall, and particularly in the lower registers. But, I was awestruck when I heard the mids and highs. It was just truly great. We listened to all of the same music selections as I had heard through the other speakers, and every issue that I had with the others just disappeared with the 804Ds. Except for their smaller size as compared to my 803Ds, I have to say that I prefer these new speakers overall. These really have a beautiful sounding open spirit.
For the room and system that I am currently putting together, I am excited that these babies will be exceptional. They have more clarity and are also smoother in the upper registers than my current 803Ds. I didn't think it was possible, but B&W did raise their sound to a higher level. The salesman I was working with feels that B&W spent more time on refining the drivers and the crossovers on these speakers, and the difference definitely lies within.
They also made their floor standing diamond series speakers more efficient, with a sensitivity of 90db, and with a frequency range of 38Hz to 28kHz for the 804D.
PS: The grills on the 800 Series are held on with magnets. They work great on these speakers and are on the difficult side of pulling them off. On the CM8 and CM9 speakers that I saw in Best Buy, their grills are also held on by magnets, but they make it too easy to remove the grill, and in fact, the grill just falls off if you brush against it.
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