Difficult Choice to Make

[jack d]

It is likely my company is going to transfer me to Southern Africa for about 3-4 years. They will pay to ship my personal stuff up to a certain weight. I have 2 802Ds. HTM1D, 2 804Ss, and 5 Mc MC501s. That's a lot of weight. It might very well already put me over the limit. I might be willing to pay the additional shipping costs out of my own pocket but I'm a bit worried about what condition the equipment will be in when it arrives. Sure there is insurance but how would I replace any of that equipment with insurance money while in Africa?

So the options I see are:
1. Take the risk and ship it. If I do this there will be the issue of voltage. I'd have to have the Mcs converted to 220 (along with my other equipment like a Meridian processor.
2. Sell the stuff and then do what for sound for the next 3-4 years???
3. Store the speakers and maybe the amps but still what to do for the next 3-4 years? Also would it be safe to store the speakers and amps that long? If so would I have to ensure climate controlled storage?

What an awful choice!!!

Any views?

[planitismetal]

Very difficult choice??? It is too simple!!! Take the stuff with you, convert the Mcs (or buy a cable that converts (if exists)) and go to South Africa!!! 4 years is a long time and for you, and for the equipments!!! You have such a nice system, it would be very wrong to sell it or to leave it home!!! When I transfered myself from Italy to Greece, the first thing that I took together was my equipment! Remember that you will miss not only your country, but also your loving music!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

[ninja12]

It is likely my company is going to transfer me to Southern Africa for about 3-4 years. They will pay to ship my personal stuff up to a certain weight. I have 2 802Ds. HTM1D, 2 804Ss, and 5 Mc MC501s. That's a lot of weight. It might very well already put me over the limit. I might be willing to pay the additional shipping costs out of my own pocket but I'm a bit worried about what condition the equipment will be in when it arrives. Sure there is insurance but how would I replace any of that equipment with insurance money while in Africa?

So the options I see are:
1. Take the risk and ship it. If I do this there will be the issue of voltage. I'd have to have the Mcs converted to 220 (along with my other equipment like a Meridian processor.
2. Sell the stuff and then do what for sound for the next 3-4 years???
3. Store the speakers and maybe the amps but still what to do for the next 3-4 years? Also would it be safe to store the speakers and amps that long? If so would I have to ensure climate controlled storage?

What an awful choice!!!

Any views?

That's one awesome system to leave behind. I would just have to pay the difference and have it shipped. If you have the original packing, pack it in that. If not, maybe you can contact your dealer to get the packing supplies. I'm saying do what you have to do to carry your system with you. Man, you have a sweet set up.

[audioqueso]

Are you certain that you WILL be back in 3-4 years? Also, do you know for certain that you will only move once in S.Africa (as oppose to find a better place to live in a few months again)?
It is a lot of weight, but you've earned this system. You could contact McIntosh, explain your situation, and see about trading in what you already have, and buying a different voltage version other there. It may be cheaper than shipping it. Just an idea.

[audioqueso]

A few more things.
Talk to your company. See if you can work something out with them if you are over the limit. If anything, it is cheaper to have your company pay for it all, and then you pay the difference. Find out who the shippers are, and ask the pound rate. You can estimate how much out of pocket it will cost you. It's much cheaper to pay your company back for the freight shipment as oppose to paying for a completely individual shipment.

Another thing, talk about when youmove back to the states is 3-4 years.... will they pay to ship it all back? When I moved back to Japan, I didn't really bring anything though my company was willing to pay for it. So I worked out a different deal in lieu of shipping. Obviously, you're qualified to do whatever task in S.Africia... so they WANT you there. Try to work something out. Good luck.

[jack d]

Thanks for the responses.

Yes I could pay any over weight at my company's negotiated rate. Still I will have to take some other stuff besides my music equipment. Yes of course they will ship it back when my assignment is finished. I can have the Mc and Meridian stuff converted to 220 by the two companies. Not a major issue--just additional time/money/hassle.

Yes I'm sure I will be located in one place for the entire time. No relocating until it's time to come back to the States.

I have all the original boxes. I'm a bit of a nut in that way. I have an entire storage room with audio and video boxes. I'd be moving to Zambia which is in Southern Africa but it's not South Africa. Electricity grid is cr-ap. Probably would have to invest heavily in some sort of voltage stabilizer equipment to protect the goods.

It can be done I am just not sure it is worth it. Quite an indulgence to bring all that stuff. Still I'm spoiled. It would be a bad withdrawal to do without my toys.

PS the last time I was relocated I didn't have the nice system but several boxes of my stuff showed up damp and moldy. Can you imagine if that happened to my sound equipment. I'd have a heart attack.....

[jack d]

Very difficult choice??? It is too simple!!! Take the stuff with you, convert the Mcs (or buy a cable that converts (if exists)) and go to South Africa!!! 4 years is a long time and for you, and for the equipments!!! You have such a nice system, it would be very wrong to sell it or to leave it home!!! When I transfered myself from Italy to Greece, the first thing that I took together was my equipment! Remember that you will miss not only your country, but also your loving music!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

Thanks for the encouragement but Italy to Greece is a lot different than US to Africa if you know what I mean. It would go by ship probably to some port in South Africa and then by land to Zambia. A lot could go wrong along the way....

[Hidefbob]

Hey jack d,

I am looking for 2 - 501's if you decide to sell.

Thanks,

Bob

P S I live in Canada

[Antus]

i think u have some options. first, u can take everything with u. when 4 year is up, try sell everything in South Africa. u may get excellent price because b&w speakers are quite expensive in SF.

another option is to downsize ur system and/or take partial system with you.

[kmcheng]

I am going to somewhat go against the main-stream opinions here. If I were in your shoes, I would try to sell all heavy pieces now. My knowledge of geography is bad, but I still think Zambia is very different from South Africa. There are too many unknowns to deal with in such a new environment.

If you really want to keep some B&W, get the Zeppelin or the sound bar.

You can always re-acquire the gears after you return from the assignment. With the funds from the sale, the savings on shipping, and the big salary/bonus of working as an expat, you can probably afford all these toys (and more) when you come back. B&W may even come out with a new version of 802D in the time frame.

[emig5m]

If you really want to keep some B&W, get the Zeppelin or the sound bar.

Errr... Yuck. I'd rather just get a Yamaha RX-663 and a set of 685's for the trip, lol. Keep all your original equipment in a climate controlled storage facility (Drop em off at my place and I won't even charge you rent, lol). :twisted: :rofl:

[energyandair]

Have you checked customs duty, the value of the equipment in Zambia and insurance costs?
These might turn out to be big considerations.
David

[jack d]

Have you checked customs duty, the value of the equipment in Zambia and insurance costs?
These might turn out to be big considerations.
David

All will be covered by my company and the fact that I will have diplomatic status. So no probs there.

[jack d]

Oh I forgot to add that I have a gigantic SVS SW. Just for the 6 speakers and 5 amps the weight is roughly 1500 pounds...... 8O

[jack d]

I am going to somewhat go against the main-stream opinions here. If I were in your shoes, I would try to sell all heavy pieces now. My knowledge of geography is bad, but I still think Zambia is very different from South Africa. There are too many unknowns to deal with in such a new environment.

If you really want to keep some B&W, get the Zeppelin or the sound bar.

You can always re-acquire the gears after you return from the assignment. With the funds from the sale, the savings on shipping, and the big salary/bonus of working as an expat, you can probably afford all these toys (and more) when you come back. B&W may even come out with a new version of 802D in the time frame.

Yes thoughts I've had myself. OTOH I just keep coming back to the fact that putting my entertainment life on hold for 3-4 years is, well, not that much fun.....

[hifiguymi]

I'd take the stuff with you and be happy for the next 3-4 years. When it's time to come back there may be new stuff out and you could possibly sell some, if not all, of your gear before you come back. Check out what the used A/V market is like there (I know it will change in that time but it will at least give you an indicator) and that may be an option.

Eric

[BassThatHz]

I'll give you $3000US to go towards covering the shipping to and from my house.

I'll take care of it for as long as I remain alive (for free).
Hell, I'll even give you an additional $1000US if it incurs damage (for any reason) during its stay.

My only condition is that it must remain with me for no-less-than 12 months, regardless of your return or not. :P

[altanpsx]

Take 2 804s and 2 mc with you. You will listen stereo for the time. Store your other equipment. After a while, if you feel secure about shipping your other items to Africa, you may do it.

[Briz vegas]

:agree: Its modest in weight, not too much risk (compared to the lot) and would still sound great. Will you even have a suitable dedicated room for the full system?.

It would also be more in keeping with where you are going to take a more modest setup. Having such a super flash theatre in a poor african country somehow seems a bit..............well, not so cool. South Africa or similar would be a bit different on that score.

[planitismetal]

Take 2 804s and 2 mc with you. You will listen stereo for the time. Store your other equipment. After a while, if you feel secure about shipping your other items to Africa, you may do it.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[ShadowZA]

Take 2 804s and 2 mc with you. You will listen stereo for the time. Store your other equipment. After a while, if you feel secure about shipping your other items to Africa, you may do it.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

I thought for a while on this & this is what I'd most probably do.

[ray5]

One big consideration in such situations that power outages are the rule than exception and when you have power there is tremendous fluctuations in . I a power stabilizer would address that but something to keep in mind. To have such a super system compromised due to power would be awful. Just a thought.
Ray

[jack d]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Most of these ideas have crossed my mind and the problem is that I agree with all of them!

I haven't seen the house in Lusaka so I don't yet know what the set up will be but I'm pretty sure there will be an extra room for the HT (BTW I didn't mention it but I have pretty much the same problem regarding my plasma. I have a 50" and 65". What to do there??? and the 24 acoustic panels :E it's pretty ridiculous ).

Yes power is a big concern. If I take my good stuff I'm going to have to do some research to find a way to protect it. I'm pretty sure that the house will have a back up generator but there is still the issue of dirty and unstable power which is probably to be expected.

I could just take my 600S3 speakers which are in my second HT set up. Lighter but, of course, not anywhere near as good.

[kmcheng]

Jack,

Sounds like you have a dilemma of the grandest scale.

I would pick up a new hobby for the next few years -- photography comes to mind. Can you keep your house while you are away?

[jack d]

Jack,

Sounds like you have a dilemma of the grandest scale.

I would pick up a new hobby for the next few years -- photography comes to mind. Can you keep your house while you are away?

No can't keep the house empty here in the States. A new hobby? Perhaps but....I didn't buy all this stuff lightly as you can imagine. A lot of research and learning to get my system to perform the way I wanted. I've got the HT disease in a bad way..... :W

[jack d]

:agree: :agree: :agree:

I thought for a while on this & this is what I'd most probably do.

Shadow,
I assume one can purchase the BW 800 series and mc amps in South Africa. Do you have an idea of how much more it would cost there taking into account the exchange rate and transportation costs, etc?

[george_k]

How bout going with something more minimalist such as keeping 2x 802's and 2x 501's and selling off the rest?

It won't be 5.1 but music and movies will still sound great. I personally prefer 2.0 or 2.1 to 5.1 from a price/value perspective.

This option will reduce shipping weight, potential for damage (less boxes), cost to convert to 220 (and back to 120 later on) while allowing you to enjoy your hobby. Plus, in 4 years time when you get back you'll be able to upgrade to something better

[ShadowZA]

Shadow,
I assume one can purchase the BW 800 series and mc amps in South Africa. Do you have an idea of how much more it would cost there taking into account the exchange rate and transportation costs, etc?

I'm not sure about the Mc501's but here are the latest retail selling prices of B&W 800 series speakers. I paid cash for my stuff & received 10% discount. If you need a Cape Town dealer, PM me & I'll send you the details:

800D's (per pair) = ZAR 199 990 = $ 24 998 USD
802D's (per pair) = ZAR 119 990 = $ 14 998 USD
HTM1D = ZAR 79 990 = $ 9 998 USD
804S's (per pair) = ZAR 42 990 = $ 5 373 USD

Have no idea what transportation costs would be. The main B&W agents are based in Johannesburg but stocks should be available in Cape Town as well. Air freight could be from either Johannesburg or Cape Town to Lusaka.

[jack d]

I'm not sure about the Mc501's but here are the latest retail selling prices of B&W 800 series speakers. I paid cash for my stuff & received 10% discount. If you need a Cape Town dealer, PM me & I'll send you the details:

800D's (per pair) = ZAR 199 990 = $ 24 998 USD
802D's (per pair) = ZAR 119 990 = $ 14 998 USD
HTM1D = ZAR 79 990 = $ 9 998 USD
804S's (per pair) = ZAR 42 990 = $ 5 373 USD

Have no idea what transportation costs would be. The main B&W agents are based in Johannesburg but stocks should be available in Cape Town as well. Air freight could be from either Johannesburg or Cape Town to Lusaka.

Thanks. I too got a 10 percent discount when I purchased here a few years ago so the prices you quote--then taking the 10 percent discount--amount to about 18 percent more than I paid. I don't know if the prices here have gone up but it's possible. It's also believable that they would be more expensive in SA.

[Hdale85]

B&W prices went up across the board last year I believe.

[jack d]

B&W prices went up across the board last year I believe.

Could have been related to dollar/pound movements.

[jack d]

Some new thoughts. I have two HT systems. The second system has ARCAM AV9 +P7 driving BW 600 S3 series. I have been meaning to upgrade the speakers in this system since I think the ARCAM gear is too good for those speakers.

So related to my problem of moving to Africa:

1. I could buy 2 more 804Ss and an HTM3S then bring the Arcam and the 4 804s and HTM3 to Africa. Significantly less weight and less concern about damage given that these don't have the Marlin casing around the mid-range.

2. Get 2 803Ds and an HTM2D plus the existing 804s. The advantage here is that I will not be sacrificing so much compared to my existing system in terms of the smoother high range with the diamond tweeters. And still no where near the weight of bringing my main set up.

Either of these options would then give me a nice second set up to work with when I got back to the states.

Other than the additional price of option 2 my concern is that the Arcam P7 amp might not drive the 803Ds hard enough. I know with my 802Ds that when I got the mc 501s the extra power really made them sing. Is this also the case with the 803Ds?

thanks for any comments.

[htsteve]

jack d,

I like option 2 for a very nice system that wouldn't be a huge drop off. I also have the same concerm about the P7 driving the 803D's. 150 wpc might be a bit thin for the 803D's. It would be quite good for the 804S's in option 1.

If you could find a used MC205, that might do the trick as well. Keep the Mac sound with enought power to go around in one chassis.


Hope this helps.

[dknightd]

There are too many missing pieces of information. Or maybe I just missed them.
How much total weight will they allow? How much does other stuff you want to bring with you weigh? I'm assuming the transport will be insured. Do you have wife and kids? What do they want to bring along? Do you really want to go there? How soon do you need to decide? You strike me as a smart person, figure out what you want, then figure out a way to make it work. Keep in mind the possibility that once you get away from "home" you may decide to never return. Good luck to you - it sounds like a grand adventure.

[jack d]

jack d,

I like option 2 for a very nice system that wouldn't be a huge drop off. I also have the same concerm about the P7 driving the 803D's. 150 wpc might be a bit thin for the 803D's. It would be quite good for the 804S's in option 1.

If you could find a used MC205, that might do the trick as well. Keep the Mac sound with enought power to go around in one chassis.


Hope this helps.

Yes the MC205 is an interesting idea. Still then even more money but less sacrifice in terms of SQ.

I would love to hear from owners of the 803Ds what sort of amplification is required to get the most out of them.

thx

[jack d]

There are too many missing pieces of information. Or maybe I just missed them.
How much total weight will they allow? How much does other stuff you want to bring with you weigh? I'm assuming the transport will be insured. Do you have wife and kids? What do they want to bring along? Do you really want to go there? How soon do you need to decide? You strike me as a smart person, figure out what you want, then figure out a way to make it work. Keep in mind the possibility that once you get away from "home" you may decide to never return. Good luck to you - it sounds like a grand adventure.

I get 1500 pounds and if I took my full primary system (without plasma) that would eat it all up. I could pay for additional overweight but it's not just about the weight but also the risk in shipping the big speakers. I would be covered by insurance but can you image dealing with shipping those behemoths out of Africa to be repaired or having to arrange for shipping for replacements? Could be messy.

If everything falls into place I am definitely committed to going but it is very unlikely that I will stay there indefinitely. Will definitely want to come back to the first world.

I still have time to plan but that is why I'm trying to think it through now. Would not have to relocate until the end of the year.

Yes I know I have to figure out what I want and no one can tell me but I find it useful to "think out loud" and get feedback from fellow HT crazies.

Thx

[dknightd]

I think i'd bring a small 2.1 system, and leave the big stuff behind (either in storage, or sold to be replaced upon return - or a little bit of each)

[MikeFL52]

I would look at this in a different light to make the decision.

This is a new position in a very different country so ask yourself these questions:

1.) How much time will the new job take?
2.) What will be my social obligations in the new country? Often these can be significant on a foreign assignment.
3.) What will I not be able to do with my free time that I can do here? Meet friends, go for a beer or a meal, ???
4.) Can I fill that free time in any other way? Travel, make new friends, ???


So how much free time does this leave that you need to fill with your obsession (yes if you have this level of equipment it is an obsession not a hobby!)?

If the answer to this is significant then I would just go and ship the lot, get the voltage conversions to the amps, etc and get a very good voltage generator to account for the fluctuations. I would hate to be sitting in my house or appartment listenning to anything less than what I am used to with spare time on my hands, this would just make you want to be back here all the time and that is not the point of foriegn assignments.

[jack d]

I would look at this in a different light to make the decision.

This is a new position in a very different country so ask yourself these questions:

1.) How much time will the new job take?
2.) What will be my social obligations in the new country? Often these can be significant on a foreign assignment.
3.) What will I not be able to do with my free time that I can do here? Meet friends, go for a beer or a meal, ???
4.) Can I fill that free time in any other way? Travel, make new friends, ???


So how much free time does this leave that you need to fill with your obsession (yes if you have this level of equipment it is an obsession not a hobby!)?

If the answer to this is significant then I would just go and ship the lot, get the voltage conversions to the amps, etc and get a very good voltage generator to account for the fluctuations. I would hate to be sitting in my house or appartment listenning to anything less than what I am used to with spare time on my hands, this would just make you want to be back here all the time and that is not the point of foriegn assignments.

This isn't the first time that I have done an assignment like this. I'm pretty sure I will have the time to indulge HT "obsession" but only the enjoyment part, not the buying part.....

[jack d]

Well I'm leaning toward picking up two 803Ds and an HTM2D. So I could bring those plus my two 804Ss over to Africa.

The problem now is amplification. Mcintosh seems to be out because my local dealer told me that Mc refuses to rewire my 501s for 220v and also even if I bought a 303 and 402 they would not sell them to me in US with 220v. Apparently it is because of an arrangement they have with their overseas dealers to prevent people from coming to the US to buy them and then bring them out of the US. So I am out of luck with Mcintosh. I find it hard to believe but my dealer said he went all the way up the chain to the highest levels at McIntosh and they won't budge from their position.

So the question now becomes which amps would be on the level of Mcintoshs that I could buy in the US and are switchable between 120 and 220. Apparently Classe is the same as Mc. They are not user switchable and they won't convert them for me in the US.

Any suggestions? thx.

[audioqueso]

Have you tried calling McIntosh yourself? Just ask them what they recommend you should do with your amp in S.Africa. They may open their mouth and say "oh, just send it over to us and we'll fix that up". Doesn't hurt to ask.

[jack d]

Have you tried calling McIntosh yourself? Just ask them what they recommend you should do with your amp in S.Africa. They may open their mouth and say "oh, just send it over to us and we'll fix that up". Doesn't hurt to ask.

No I haven't tried that. I guess it's worth a phone call. I do, however, trust my local dealer. I think he really did go up the chain all the way to the top. He said he got an email from the top guy at McIntosh saying "no."

What's even worse is that if I buy one in South Africa, for example, if I want to convert it to 110 upon my return to the States it will void the warranty. Unbelievable.

[htsteve]

jack d,

I too would call Mcintosh. Hopefully, something can be arranged. I do find that answer surprising. You've bought a lot of stuff. Hopefully they can make an arrangement for you.

[audioqueso]

No I haven't tried that. I guess it's worth a phone call. I do, however, trust my local dealer. I think he really did go up the chain all the way to the top. He said he got an email from the top guy at McIntosh saying "no."

What's even worse is that if I buy one in South Africa, for example, if I want to convert it to 110 upon my return to the States it will void the warranty. Unbelievable.

I'm not doubting your dealer. But what I mean is.. it would be harder for the company to turn down a customer than it would to turn down the dealer. They' may want to keep their customers happy, you know.

[jack d]

I just spoke with McIntosh. THEY WILL NOT BUDGE! Amazing! The only potentially useful suggestion the guy had was that I could use the 110 version of amps and then get a step down transformer. You just have to match the transformer to the total current draw of the amps. He said people do that all the time and it shouldn't affect the lifespan of the amps.

So I guess for a 303 and a 402 I would need a transformer that can handle 22 amps at 110v.