703's with Rotel 1055 receiver - Whats missing?

[perla4u]

I have had this setup for over an year now and I thoroughly enjoy them. Recently I started noticing, especially during sitcoms/movies where conversation is more, I am turning up the volume quite a bit. Typically my setting is left at 45 (on the volume) and I increase it to 55 most of the time for conversations. I do listen to music, and to get them rocking I crank it up to 65 sometimes. I am not sure whether these levels are too high / low and wanted to know if these speakers are missing the power they need or something else is wrong. Even playing with Bluray, sometimes, I crank up the volume. Any thoughts on what might be happening here? I thought for my initial listening, 45 was loud enough and yet times I use to turn down the volume.

Thanks
Perla

[htsteve]

Perla,

Did you change your room around? If yes, it's possible the room acoustics changed and that is what you are hearing.

I have not heard of receivers, especially quality ones like the Rotel, 'losing steam' in their amp sections. It possible, but I've not really heard of this.

If not these, it's possible you have gotten 'used to' the sound of your system and you simply are looking for the next level of improvement. Many of us have experienced this.

Also, the 703's are pretty power hungry speakers. Based on owning speakers in the 600, 700 and 800 range, the 700 series towers are where an external amp is really needed to bring out the full potential of the speakers. The better control of the FST midrange with an external amp should go a long way to improved vocals and dialogue.

I'm thinking a Rotel 1075 is a very good starting point to this, one that won't break the bank. Or a 1080 for the 703's. I had a 1080 on N804's and they worked great together.


Hope this helps.

[perla4u]

Hi Steve,

One part is for sure true, these speakers do need lot of juice. Nothing has changed in the way we are listening except the source of the content thats feeding the receiver. One interesting observation is, with high quality sources (Toshiba / Samsung) the audio comes out to be moderate where as the same CD played through some cheap ass 40$ player, audio seems to be bright and loud.

I was considering an external source and wasn't sure if thats the route for the improvement. Also, was planning to add a SUB to the setup so this might in fact help the whole system.

Regards,
Perla

[NMG]

I have had this setup for over an year now and I thoroughly enjoy them. Recently I started noticing, especially during sitcoms/movies where conversation is more, I am turning up the volume quite a bit. Typically my setting is left at 45 (on the volume) and I increase it to 55 most of the time for conversations. I do listen to music, and to get them rocking I crank it up to 65 sometimes. I am not sure whether these levels are too high / low and wanted to know if these speakers are missing the power they need or something else is wrong. Even playing with Bluray, sometimes, I crank up the volume. Any thoughts on what might be happening here? I thought for my initial listening, 45 was loud enough and yet times I use to turn down the volume.

In my experience there can be SIGNIFICANT differences in regards to how the sound is mixed amongst different recordings and/or sources. Some Bluray's I watch the center channel is perfect. Nice clear audio, balanced really well, no need to turn it up, etc. Others are terrible and you really have to turn up the volume to hear the dialogue but then the main channels seem way to loud. I think allot of times it comes down to the mix.

If you are finding that your center channel is always lower than you'd like, you could always go into your receiver settings and bump the level up for the center channel a little more in comparision to the other speakers. This is sometimes referred to running a bit "hot" and it just means that you'd set the level for that speaker a little higher than the others, say +2db or something like that.

Personally, I don't think adding a bigger amp will do anything to change the balance issues. I think what you are describing is simply the mix. That being said, a bigger amp will certainly give you more headroom, control and dynamics, especially at higher volumes.

Good luck!

[htsteve]

Perla,

NMG does bring up a good point about recordings. This can be part of the issue. His idea of increasing the center volume a couple of Db's is pretty good as well. When I had Rotel, my remote had the feature of on the fly adjustments for the center, surround and sub. If you have this feature, you can adjust for any source that seems low (or hoo hot). It will return to your default level when you turn it back on again.

Also, do you have an SPL meter and have you done a system balance? This will level your speakers to the listening position.

Your description of sources (good vs. cheap) is right on. Better players do sound better. A question, I assume whether you have a CD or DVD player, you are sending the audio signal via a digital connection to the Rotel. The Rotel has the best DAC's, so that is where you want the processing done. If not, this is something to consider.

Adding a sub is a good idea for a full HT set-up. The 703's are excellent for bass with a good amp, but the .1 LFE in HT, and especially Blu Ray HD audio, really needs a sub. Your Rotel will also blend a sub in well.

As for a new source, I would look more to getting an external amp first. This will benefit the entire system, regardless of source. After this, then evaluate sources.



Hope this helps.

[perla4u]

NMG, great point. I missed the whole fact that the issue is NOT HAVING the CENTER CHANNEL. My setup is purely a Stereo setup and for music its very nice and I guess I need to get a good center channel for the dialogue part.

Htsteve, all my connections are analog at this point. Even the Bluray audio is run via analog (those blue / red connection wires). Video is connected to Video1 on Rotel via the HDMI connection to the LCD tv. Really haven't done any metering (as a layman, started collecting electronic pieces and added to the system without any optimization). I think this is the time to redo the whole setup and add other elements to the system (SUB/CENTER CHANNEL/External AMP) but need to work on the budget first .

Any suggestion on the right center channel for 703's?


Regards
Perla

[htsteve]

Perla,

A good plan. I would recommend the center channel first, then sub and then external amp.

The matching center channel is the HTM7. This will work well. If you are watching movies and such that are designed for a center channel, I am not surprised at all you had issues with dialogue.

Even though you are 'only' running your 703's, you definitely need to run digital connections from your digital sources, like blu-ray, satelitte/cable, etc. The improvement in clarity by having the Rotel do the processing will be very nice. This will help your volume/dialogue issue now, and set you up beautifully for when you get a center, sub, etc. The DAC's in your sources are simply not as good as those in the Rotel.


Hope this helps.

[NMG]

htsteve has some very good suggestions.

Regarding the HTM7, while it is the 700 series match, some people don't like this particular speaker mated to the 703's because of the different midrange driver. The 703's use the FST driver while the HTM7 doesn't. Personally, I haven't found this to be an issue at all and I'd have no problem recommending it to go along with the 703's. It's something you may want to try and audition first though as it could be a personal preference for sure.

The other thing I just thought about is to check the settings in your 1055. With my 1056 (and I would assume the 1055), you can set it up to have a "phantom" center channel (at least I think that's what it's called) when you only have the two mains and no center. Basically it will take the center channel information and redirect it to your main speakers, along with the regular left and right channel info. This way you get the info from all three front channels playing from your mains. I used this option while I was awaiting the delivery of my center channel and it actually worked quite well until it arrived. If you don't have your receiver setup for that, then you'll only be getting the dialogue that was assigned to the left and right, which could be VERY little or very low in level. Quite often the centre channel will handle almost all the dialogue and the left and right will be more for "fill" where dialogue is concerned.

If you are able to do that and you find it acceptbale, then you may actually consider picking up a sub before a centre channel. I think having the sub there for the low bass and to take a bit of the load off your amp would result in a bigger overall improvement than getting a dedicated center over the "phantom" setting. Definitely something to consider.

Good luck!

[perla4u]

Great input and thank you Htsteve and NMG.

I haven't really known/thought about the Phantom feature on the Rotel 1055. Can you provide me the procedure on how to do this. I will it today and see how it goes. I am already looking for a Sub. I found a really nice ASW800 in mint for $800 on Audiogon. Do you think this is a good price? I am not sure if 800 series goes well with 700. Please let me know.

Regards
Perla

[htsteve]

Perla,

For the center channel, go into your setup menu. Then go into 'Speaker Setup'. Then Center channel. Change it to NONE. This will cause the receiver to divide the information into the 703's.

As for the sub, the 800 series is the best series they make. The 700 series, especially the 703's, are one level below the 800. I view the 703's as the slightly smaller brother to the 804S. So a sub from the 800 range should work well with the 703's. The $800 price is pretty good as well.


Hope this helps.

[perla4u]

Steve....If the choosing the Center Channel as NONE on the speaker setup is what we call Phantom setup, I believe this is how I have it setup now. I will double check again.

Thanks for the 800 sub confirmation. Now, I need the Home Department approval to get the Sub

Thanks
Perla

[htsteve]

Now, I need the Home Department approval to get the Sub

Thanks
Perla

Been there, done that. As have many of us.

[kmcheng]

Thanks for the 800 sub confirmation. Now, I need the Home Department approval to get the Sub

Perla

You should just get it first and then "ask" for the "approval" later.
:W

[wgriel]

You should just get it first and then "ask" for the "approval" later.
:W

Heh, been there and done that, too! Sometimes I've had to weather a bit of a storm afterwards though :W

[dknightd]

If you are only using r&l analog output on your dvd player, you might need to tell your dvd player you are only using two ouputs (otherwise it might send center channel to the bit bucket)