B&W 805s w/ McIntosh

[BVoss]

What are everyone's thoughts on the 805s w/ either the McIntosh 252 or the MC2102, 100-watt tube amp?

I'm considering both. Pros/cons?

[htsteve]

BVoss,

I have a MC252 powering 802D's and am very happy with it. The 252 delivers a tremendous amount of current. Excellent bass, supreme midrange and clear highs. The best features to me are that the music/sound is effortless and very smooth, as well as a HUGE soundstage, both depth and width. It does everything very, very well.

There is a thread in the B&W forum called 'What electronics should I get with my B&W speakers?'. On page 5 is a another user who got a 252 as well. Their description is quite accurate.

I have no extensive experience with Mac tube gear, so hopefully someone else will chime in.


A MC252 would be awesome for a set of 805S's. It would also be big enough to handle future speaker upgrades.


Hope this helps.

[Glenee]

I have had that exact same set-up with the MC252 and 805S it is a great combination. I would go for the MC252 for the future. I had a pair of MC501's paired with the B&W 802D's, one day I put the MC252 on the 802D's and at normal listening levels I prefered the MC252. Just a all aound wonderful Multi-Purpose Amp. The other thing about the MC252 is it's depth, it will fit in so many more places the other bigger McIntosh Amps can't.
You Better Listen to HTSTEVE.

[htsteve]

BVoss,

Forgot to add, the best thing to do is audition these combo's yourself, if that is possible. You ears are the best guide.

[BVoss]

Thanks for the responses, HTSteve and Glenee.

Funny you should mention auditioning. A friend is bringing his 252 over this weekend for a taste test. I'm very excited. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll have an opportunity to hear a McIntosh tube amplifier on my system unless I take the plunge and buy one (or two.)

No matter what I choose, I'm certain it will be a huge step over the B&K 125.2 amplifier I'm presently using.

Thanks to you both,

Brett

[htsteve]

Brett,

Very cool. Getting a demo in your own room is the best way to go.

Also, the 252 is HEAVY. It's about 95 pounds, with the weight a bit front loaded. Both of you can work to move it.


Enjoy.

[BVoss]

Fortunately, we have easy access to get it into my hatch back. I'll post my thoughts on the sound improvements after we demo on sunday.

I just noticed you're in warren, michigan. I grew up in Livonia but moved out to Los Angeles in 2003. Thunderstorms start yet?

[BVoss]

I don't want to hijack my own thread, but since this is still a question about b&ws ...

Steve, I notice that you list 804s in your arsenal. Based on your other speaker choices, I assume you're using these as your rears. Have you ever had 805s as the rears?

Your system appears to be very close what I'd like to achieve over the next few years. Ultimately, though, I'd like to move my present L/R to the rears. Any comment on abilities and inabilities of the 805s as the rear monitors? Also, same question, but about 804s.

Thanks,

Brett

[htsteve]

Brett,

Yes, heavy thunderstorms overnight. The house was actually shaking on a few of the bursts. On and off since then.

As to 804 vs. 805's for rears. I do use 804S's for rears now. My main motivation was to finally have the rear speakers be the same series as the fronts. I never had that before. I can say that the system integration definitely went up from my previous rears. So I looked at the 800 series.

I strongly considered 805S's as rears. I did a lot of listenening at dealers. They are sweet, no question. However, with the advent of the HD audio formats in Blu Ray (the uncompressed audio is awesome), I felt that tower rear speakers were the best long term solution to fully bring out the HD audio formats. The big difference between the two is the bass output. Very good with the 805S's for it's size. But the 804S's is really full range and it shows, especially with my Mac amp driving them. Also, the cost of a pair of 804S's was not that much more than a set of 805S's plus good stands.

As a natural part of building your system, it would be quite awesome to have the 805S's pull duty as rear speakers. That way, your funds can be devoted to the fronts. And if you get 802D's, it's best to consider a high quality, high current amp. 802D's just love the juice.

Then later, you can go with 804S's, or maybe a used pair of 803D's as rears. Now that would be fun, diamonds all the way around.

Hope this helps.

[Horacio]

Brett,

I'll chime in for tubes. I have 804s and MC275, and I focus on stereo so can't comment on HT applications. I upgraded speakers first and then when looking for an amp auditioned (at a dealer) the 804s with C220 and 252 and with the 275. Both of them sounded wonderful to me and either amp would have been a great choice. It came down to personal preference and I was seduced by the tube sound. Difficult to explain in words, but it was nicer to my ears. Tubes and aluminum tweeters are a good match.

So again, the 252 would be a great choice, but also would the 2102 or the 275. Your mentioned the 2102. Are you considering that amp for looks over the 275? Other than that, I don't think you'll notice much difference in sound if driving 805 or 804s with a 275 or 2102 (let alone if you roll tubes in the 275 and you end up really getting 90W per channel).

Then the other aspect to consider is your predisposition towards tubes. I've had the 275 for a year and it's my first tube amp, and I'm having fun (a lot of it!). Learning about tube sound signature and rolling tubes. Spicing the cheff's suggestion to my liking, and to my system's evolution. Now you also get heat and if you roll you spend money on tubes. These are on-issues to me, but you should consider them, especially in light of the upside I do get, though.

You might want to explore the McIntosh forum at audiokarma.org. Many Mc + B&W users there. Try digging for data. Recently a new Mc forum: audioaficionado.org, you probably want to check that out too, but has less info to dig for as it started a few months ago (but many key contributors from audiokarma just moved there).

I hope it helps.
One warning I feel I should give you: your social life might suffer! I spend a lot more time listening to music now than I did before this combo. It's probably safe to budget for that. Be warned!!

Horacio

[BVoss]

Brett,

Yes, heavy thunderstorms overnight. The house was actually shaking on a few of the bursts. On and off since then.

As to 804 vs. 805's for rears. I do use 804S's for rears now. My main motivation was to finally have the rear speakers be the same series as the fronts. I never had that before. I can say that the system integration definitely went up from my previous rears. So I looked at the 800 series.

I strongly considered 805S's as rears. I did a lot of listenening at dealers. They are sweet, no question. However, with the advent of the HD audio formats in Blu Ray (the uncompressed audio is awesome), I felt that tower rear speakers were the best long term solution to full bring out the HD audio formats. The big difference between the two is the bass output. Very good with the 805S's for it's size. But the 804S's is really full range and it shows, especially with my Mac amp driving them. Also, the cost of a pair of 804S's was not that much more than a set of 805S's plus good stands.

As a natural part of building your system, it would be quite awesome to have the 805S's pull duty as rear speakers. That way, your funds can be devoted to the fronts. And if you get 802D's, it's best to consider a high quality, high current amp. 802D's just love the juice.

Then later, you can go with 804S's, or maybe a used pair of 803D's as rears. Now that would be fun, diamonds all the way around.

Hope this helps.

You're right. Definitely will be nice to focus on the LCRBoom of the system. Assuming I love what I hear on sunday (and I'm wondering how I couldn't,) the McIntosh 252 should handle the rear 805s well.

I've heard the mc2301 and really love the sound, so I'm hoping 3x2301 for LCR. I'll weigh practicality vs performance when that day comes.

I wonder how tube LCR vs transistor amp LsRs will sound.

Thank you for your opinions and comments.

[BVoss]

Brett,

I'll chime in for tubes. I have 804s and MC275, and I focus on stereo so can't comment on HT applications. I upgraded speakers first and then when looking for an amp auditioned (at a dealer) the 804s with C220 and 252 and with the 275. Both of them sounded wonderful to me and either amp would have been a great choice. It came down to personal preference and I was seduced by the tube sound. Difficult to explain in words, but it was nicer to my ears. Tubes and aluminum tweeters are a good match.

So again, the 252 would be a great choice, but also would the 2102 or the 275. Your mentioned the 2102. Are you considering that amp for looks over the 275? Other than that, I don't think you'll notice much difference in sound if driving 805 or 804s with a 275 or 2102 (let alone if you roll tubes in the 275 and you end up really getting 90W per channel).

Then the other aspect to consider is your predisposition towards tubes. I've had the 275 for a year and it's my first tube amp, and I'm having fun (a lot of it!). Learning about tube sound signature and rolling tubes. Spicing the cheff's suggestion to my liking, and to my system's evolution. Now you also get heat and if you roll you spend money on tubes. These are on-issues to me, but you should consider them, especially in light of the upside I do get, though.

You might want to explore the McIntosh forum at audiokarma.org. Many Mc + B&W users there. Try digging for data. Recently a new Mc forum: audioaficionado.org, you probably want to check that out too, but has less info to dig for as it started a few months ago (but many key contributors from audiokarma just moved there).

I hope it helps.
One warning I feel I should give you: your social life might suffer! I spend a lot more time listening to music now than I did before this combo. It's probably safe to budget for that. Be warned!!

Horacio

Hi, Horacio,

Thanks for chiming in. I've since registered on both sites you recommended -- thank you.

I have to admit -- I do love tubes. I demoed the mc2301 and really, REALLY love the sound. Ultimately, that's what I hope to be running my LCR with. Right now, I only have the 805s (which will be used as the rears in that version of my system.)

Haha. And you are so right. It already does suffer -- and I'm only running the b&k 125.2. CanNOT wait to upgrade to McIntosh.

[BVoss]

So, today was the 252 tester day. After bringing it over, we did about 3 1/2 hours of critical listening.

I can't say I'm surprised by the difference, but extremely happy. I will be picking up a 252.

[Tweir]

I have heard the 805s with the following, Mcintosh, mc275, mht200, ma6500,
ma7000, mc252,mc402,mc501, Classe ca2200,cap2100, and to me it sounded
the best with the cap2100 from classe. I did like the sound on the ma6500 that
has been replaced with the ma6600. I say this given price and of course you
get better sound going seperates and the 805 would take all of the 400 watts on
peaks on the 402 but that same amp on the 802d is in different world altogether.
My opinion would be stay with an integrated amp like the cap2100 or ma6600.

[BVoss]

252 is now in my posession. After 10 hours on listening, I am most impressed. 252 + B&W 805s are like a combo made in heaven.

[htsteve]

BVoss,

Excellent to hear. I'm not at all surprised by your reaction. B&W and Mac is quite a combo.