Can I use 802D for both Stereo Music and Movie with an Amp and Receiver?

[d52232dole]

Hi,

I'm thinking/trying to have my 802D utilized for both Stereo Music (using Krell amp) and Movie (using Pioneer LX70). Can I connect speaker wires from those 2 Krell amp and Pioneer LX70 to same posts of 802D? Of course, I will listen/watch one (either music or movie) at a time. Say if I listen to music, I will turn of the Pioneer receiver, and vice versa.

Thanks for your advice!

[dyazdani]

What pre-amp are you using? Does it have an HT Bypass function? That would be a better solution.

[d52232dole]

Hi Dani,

I'm using Krell 280p. It captured from its spec:
- "Balanced, direct-coupled circuitry is utilized from input to output ".
- "INPUTS: (ALL INPUTS MAY BE SET UP FOR THEATER THROUGHPUT) 1 pair balanced via XLR connectors, 3 pair single-ended via RCA connectors"

More at http://www.onecall.com/productdetails.aspx?id=32680.

I'm thinking that from my Pioner LX70, there should be a pre-out that transmits signals to either my Krell pre (280) or Krell pow (2250), then, Krell pre and/or pow amplifies it to front speakders which are my 802D.

[d52232dole]

more:

- "With its unique Theater Throughput TM feature, the KAV–280p can easily adapt to home theater applications"
- http://www.krellonline.com/new_pdfs/...57_018_MAN.pdf

I did read the manual carefully, basically it (280p) can be configured/connected TO an audio/video surround processor (or a receiver), which confuses me. I thought from my Receiver, there is a "pre out" to my Krell pre, then it will drive the front speakers while my Receiver drives the center/rears.

[dyazdani]

All you should have to do is connect the main channel L&R line level outputs from the Pioneer receiver to whichever input on the 280p you want to use for theater throughput. The 280p will let the signal pass to the main speakers "untouched" more or less...

[d52232dole]

Hi Dani,

Many thanks for your quick advice!

I got a clear picture now, summarized below:

1) From Pioneer receiver, connect "pre-out" ("front speakers" RCA jacks) to one of the RCA inputs from Krell 280p.
2) As per current config, my pre 280p mono-blocks to two other Krell power (2250), and with "Movie mode" (set up in step 1 above), the Pioneer will control the balance/volume of the whole HT system including my 802D for fronts.

Hope this is what I understand correctly, and will try tonight at home.

[dyazdani]

I'm assuming the Pioneer powering the center/surrounds?

You will also need to configure whatever input on the 280p for theater mode, I red the procedure in the link above.

[indiebands]

Hi Dani,

Many thanks for your quick advice!

I got a clear picture now, summarized below:

1) From Pioneer receiver, connect "pre-out" ("front speakers" RCA jacks) to one of the RCA inputs from Krell 280p.
2) As per current config, my pre 280p mono-blocks to two other Krell power (2250), and with "Movie mode" (set up in step 1 above), the Pioneer will control the balance/volume of the whole HT system including my 802D for fronts.

Hope this is what I understand correctly, and will try tonight at home.

Hey, sounds like that should work just fine. The Krell 280p sounds like a pretty slick solution. Please report back.

As for me, I got a pair of Vincent SP-995 monoblocks to power my 803Ds along with the Vincent Preamp and CD player. One of the nice things about the Vincent monoblocks is that they have a switch on the front that lets you switch between the balanced XLR inputs and RCA inputs. So the CD player and pre-amp are connected through the balanced inputs and HT is enabled on the amp directly (via pre-out from my Denon HT receiver) without passing through the preamp. I thought that was a nice feature. Most other amps I have seen that have selectable inputs (between XLR and RCA) have the switch located on the back panel near the connectors (not user friendly).

[d52232dole]

Hi Dani,
Yes, the Pioneer receiver drives Center/Rears.

Hi Indie,
I'm glad that your setup is similar to mine. My Pre has pass thru (I tested the pre itself last night, not the whole system yet) mode for HomeTheater. My power does not have such input selection, only has XLR/RCA input jacks in the back.

I got stuck with works last night and not tried the whole setup yet, but will report soon by this weekend.

Thanks everyones!

[d52232dole]

1 more side-question:

The impedance of my 802D as well as B&W ones for rears/surround is rated at 8ohm with a note of "minimum 3ohm". My receiver has option to set speakers impedance to 6ohm (that can push 180w) or 8ohm (default, that can push 150w). Should I set my receiver to 6ohm to get more power out of the speakers?

[indiebands]

1 more side-question:

The impedance of my 802D as well as B&W ones for rears/surround is rated at 8ohm with a note of "minimum 3ohm". My receiver has option to set speakers impedance to 6ohm (that can push 180w) or 8ohm (default, that can push 150w). Should I set my receiver to 6ohm to get more power out of the speakers?

Hi I am curious about that too. My dealer who sold me my 803Ds said that the impedance was effectively 4ohm. Is that accurate? My Vincent SP-995s don't have any selector for speaker impedance, so I don't really need to worry about settings, but I am curious. Thanks.

[dyazdani]

1 more side-question:

The impedance of my 802D as well as B&W ones for rears/surround is rated at 8ohm with a note of "minimum 3ohm". My receiver has option to set speakers impedance to 6ohm (that can push 180w) or 8ohm (default, that can push 150w). Should I set my receiver to 6ohm to get more power out of the speakers?

I would leave it at 8...

[dyazdani]

Hi I am curious about that too. My dealer who sold me my 803Ds said that the impedance was effectively 4ohm. Is that accurate? My Vincent SP-995s don't have any selector for speaker impedance, so I don't really need to worry about settings, but I am curious. Thanks.

Actual impedence will vary some with frequency, not sure what the curves look like for B&W. You might check the DIY section in the forum for some examples.

[wettou]

Hi I am curious about that too. My dealer who sold me my 803Ds said that the impedance was effectively 4ohm. Is that accurate? My Vincent SP-995s don't have any selector for speaker impedance, so I don't really need to worry about settings, but I am curious. Thanks.

Not it is 8Ω !! All B&W are at 8Ω

[indiebands]

Not it is 8Ω !! All B&W are at 8Ω

Thanks for the feedback.

[indiebands]

Actual impedence will vary some with frequency, not sure what the curves look like for B&W. You might check the DIY section in the forum for some examples.

Nominally they are 8 ohm, but how would I go about calculating actual impedance? Could you point me to a post or thread that discusses how to go about doing this calculation? Alternatively, if you could tell me the appropriate key words, I can do the search for the post/thread. Thanks in advance.

[d52232dole]

Updated:

I finished setup of my system mentioned above (from Receiver, pre-outs the Fronts to pre-amp -> and pow-amp drives it to Fronts), the Receiver volumes takes over the master volume (pre-amp volume does not work in HT mode) of the whole AV system, and it works perfectly. There is more power to the Front @ 1000 wpc (driven by Krell monoblock) comparing to 150 wpc if Front were driven by Receiver.

If I want just listen to Stereo, just by 2 button presses (CD and pre-amp) on remotes.

Thanks everyones, thanks to Krell!

[Kal Rubinson]

Nominally they are 8 ohm, but how would I go about calculating actual impedance? Could you point me to a post or thread that discusses how to go about doing this calculation? Alternatively, if you could tell me the appropriate key words, I can do the search for the post/thread. Thanks in advance.

You cannot calculate it. You have to measure it. Best bet is to find a review of the speaker that has an impedance curve measurement.

OTOH, the manufacturer's nominal rating is probably appropriate in almost all cases. With most amps, I use 8ohms for the 802Ds but find that I prefer 4ohms with the MC-303. Possibly this is due to the impedance dips in the upper bass and lower mid but who knows?

Kal

[dyazdani]

From a publication's review...

[d52232dole]

After few days enjoying new setup (802D pre-outed from Pioneer LX70 receiver to Krell pre/pow 280p/2250 monoblock), I'm thinking of another upgrade to my Center/Rears into 2 options:

1) BUY a more powerful receiver than LX70 to i.e. Pioneer LX90 @ around 200 wpc ($11k) or Yamaha Z11 @ around 150 wpc($7k). Still pre-outing to Krell 280p/2250 monoblock for Front 802D.
2) Keep Pioneer LX70 and pre/pow Krell for Front 802D. BUY a Krell pow 3250 (3 channels @ 250 wpc) to drive Center (will be B&W 3S @ 250 wpc max) and Rears (B&W 804S).

Few questions though:
1) If option 2, do I need to get another pre (like another 280p) to pair up with new 3250, or just pre-out from Receiver directly to pow 3250?
2) Which option will produce better sound
3) Which option is more "big bang for the bucks"?

Thanks in advance!

[style]

Hallo,

DONT BUY the Pio LX90: is a really flop!!!! A frined have this "receiver" to replace a Rotel Rsp1068&1075. The new Lx90 Susano is in the Bedroom with a 5.1 kit spekaers from $. 500.- from Focal.
I have tried to listen music with this computer", hey a lot of possibilty no word but is a good preampli is not a power-ampli. Really for a $.11k is a suicide.

The Krell THEATER THROUGHPUT is a very good thing. search a Kav2250/3250 and make like have wrote Dany.

Style

[kmcheng]

After few days enjoying new setup (802D pre-outed from Pioneer LX70 receiver to Krell pre/pow 280p/2250 monoblock), I'm thinking of another upgrade to my Center/Rears into 2 options:

1) BUY a more powerful receiver than LX70 to i.e. Pioneer LX90 @ around 200 wpc ($11k) or Yamaha Z11 @ around 150 wpc($7k). Still pre-outing to Krell 280p/2250 monoblock for Front 802D.
2) Keep Pioneer LX70 and pre/pow Krell for Front 802D. BUY a Krell pow 3250 (3 channels @ 250 wpc) to drive Center (will be B&W 3S @ 250 wpc max) and Rears (B&W 804S).

Few questions though:
1) If option 2, do I need to get another pre (like another 280p) to pair up with new 3250, or just pre-out from Receiver directly to pow 3250?
2) Which option will produce better sound
3) Which option is more "big bang for the bucks"?

Thanks in advance!

I would do option 2). It is not clear to me how a slightly more powerful receiver in option 1) would improve the quality of your surround channels, other than making them slightly louder. Are you already maxing out the volume on the receiver?

You should not need another pre for option 2). You should be able to play with the settings on your current Pioneer to so that it does not decode to the surround channels when you are playing 2-channel stereo.

[d52232dole]

Thanks, Style and Cheng!

If option 2, I just need to pre-out from Receiver to Power Amp (skip Pre)?

I am watching movies using my HTPC. Will the audio quality degrade from Full/True HD or Master Audio down to DTS or whatever when pre-outing to pre/pow amps?

[Audio_ElF]

Do you have any analogue sources for stereo (e.g. CD Player, Turntable or maybe a DAC)? If so I would connect those to your Krell Preamp bypassing the Pioneer for these. If not, then just go Pioneer to Krell Power amp.

Eloise

[kmcheng]

Do you have any analogue sources for stereo (e.g. CD Player, Turntable or maybe a DAC)? If so I would connect those to your Krell Preamp bypassing the Pioneer for these. If not, then just go Pioneer to Krell Power amp.

Eloise

That is a much better solution than routing the signals through the Pioneer.

[d52232dole]

Hi Audio and Cheng,

Yes, when listen to music, my CD connects directly to pre/pow, bypassing Receiver. I just switch the pre-amp input to B-1 (balance input). When watching movies, I then use Receiver -> pre/pow, and switch the pre-amp input to differrent input.

[lvhung]

just go for Pre/pro + muti channel amp

[d52232dole]

just go for Pre/pro + muti channel amp

Does it mean I still need a Receiver that takes input from HTPC/Bluray, and from Receiver, out to multi-chan amps (like Krell 2250 - for Fronts, and Krell 3250 - 3 channels for Centers/Rears)?

[indiebands]

Does it mean I still need a Receiver that takes input from HTPC/Bluray, and from Receiver, out to multi-chan amps (like Krell 2250 - for Fronts, and Krell 3250 - 3 channels for Centers/Rears)?

Yes, exactly. You need to decode the multichannel digital audio (what you are using the receiver for) then you can go directly from the pre-outs of the receiver into your multichannel amps (or in your case via the the pre-amp with HT-bypass for the Fronts).

Have you decided definitely to go with a multichannel amp for your Center and Rears? Can you do an A/B test to compare the sound quality of receiver amplification vs. multichannel amp amplification? Overall, I have not been too excited by the sound quality coming from my Denon 2809 in HT mode, though I have yet to upgrade my center and rears.

[lvhung]

if you like Krell
I heard Krell HTS 7.1 pro and krell 3250 when I was in Hongkong
expensive but awesome
You can find cheaper pre-pro/power which is better than Pionner LX 70

[Audio_ElF]

Yes, there are cheaper (than the Krell HTS7.1) pre/pro available that will beat the Pioneer LX70 ... but it depends on what your requirments are how much you need to spend to beat it.

The first major improvement you get with a pre/pro over an integrated reciever tends to be with music and especially analogue pass through for your CD player. You've already dealt with this issue using your Krell kit for stereo and front speakers.

Secondly by separating the power amps from the receiver, you tend to get improvement ... However, though you don't say what rears you are using, unless it is something very high end and you are doing a lot of multi-channel music, the amps inside the Pioneer LX70 should be perfectly adequate, especially as you have removed the load from the fronts (and centre if you add a mono-block for that).

Obviously just my thoughts ... but unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money, you are not going to see major improvements on your movie/multichannel audio just by buying a pre/pro. Just take time to demo and compare before you jump.

Eloise

[style]

Hi,

I have a combo Classe SSP800&CA5200.
Krell with the THEATER THROUGHPUT is very interesting.

well with the SSP800 and a 2 block (like CA3200&CA2200 or too with a CA5200&CA2200) you can make very similar work.
go ON with the CA2200 if you go listen a cd stereo 2 channel...
but Krell have a sequential position from the channel and Classe (hey is great and i like Classe) have a difference design inside...: Krell is sure
a good combo and have a possiblity the "play the music at plasure.
the Krell pre 202 and a Evo 302 is very amazing.
The combo Kav 3250/2250 can you found in the second hand and a power ampli is always a sure investiment vs. the processor they change every 6-12 moths.

style

[d52232dole]

Thanks!

To summarize it, currently I have:
HomeTheater:
Receiver Pioneer LX70 -- pre-out --> Krell pre-amp 280p --> Krell pow-amp 2250 (monoblocks) --> B&W 802D for Front: Sounds great as what I expect to hear.
Receiver LX70 also drives Polkaudio CS1 for Center and B&W 686 for Rears: This is what I want to upgrade - separate amps to drive Center and Rears so pretty much I won't have my LX70 Receiver drive any speaker (a waste?).

Upgrade plan:
- Buy a Krell pow-amp 3250 (3 channels) to take pre-out from Receiver LX70 and drive directly to Center/Rears bypassing or no need to have pre. Or buy something like pre/pro? What is it?
- Buy B&W center S3 or 3S, and better ones for rears.

[lvhung]

You got a load of works to do, good luck

[Audio_ElF]

Thanks!

To summarize it, currently I have:
HomeTheater:
Receiver Pioneer LX70 -- pre-out --> Krell pre-amp 280p --> Krell pow-amp 2250 (monoblocks) --> B&W 802D for Front: Sounds great as what I expect to hear.
Receiver LX70 also drives Polkaudio CS1 for Center and B&W 686 for Rears: This is what I want to upgrade - separate amps to drive Center and Rears so pretty much I won't have my LX70 Receiver drive any speaker (a waste?).

Upgrade plan:
- Buy a Krell pow-amp 3250 (3 channels) to take pre-out from Receiver LX70 and drive directly to Center/Rears bypassing or no need to have pre. Or buy something like pre/pro? What is it?
- Buy B&W center S3 or 3S, and better ones for rears.

Pre/Pro = Pre-amp Processor ... also just called a straight Processor. Basically a AV Receiver without power amps and (usually) no radio.

To power the center and rear speakers you go straight from the outputs of your Pioneer into the inputs of the Krell Poweramp.

I assume when you mentioned buying a new B&W Centre you meant HTM3S ? If you are sticking with the B&W686 for the rear, you don't need to rush to get a power amp for these ... stick with the internal ones in the Pioneer unless you get a good deal on a 3-channel. Get a matching mono-block for the center would (IMO) be better upgrade.

[style]

Hi d52232dole,
well my personaly choice with your gears will be a KAV3250 (center and surround), the KAV2250 with the 280p is perfect to listen in stereo with the 802D :T

a Htm3s as center with the 802D? i have the 803D and after test and question I have the Htm2D in place from the 3S: perfect macht!!

the 686 as rear at the moment ok!? is you can ($$$$) go with a 805S or better... (in the future a pair of 803D will be heaven for you, all Diamont and with a Sacd Top setup.

the Pioneer for the HT I don't have anyexperience but a Onkyo ONLY pre 886 (in eupopa) with XLR, ... will be not extrem expensive and you have all.
Well a Rotel 1570 work very good too!!

I don't have any idea if you target is agreat 2 channel system of a HT.


greetings from Switzerland
Style

[d52232dole]

Hi Audio and Style,

Thanks for comments!

I'm happy now with Krell pre 280p and pow2250 monoblocking to 802D for both music and HT.

My budget for upgrade Center is B&W 3S and for multi-amp is Krell 3350 that gets input from Receiver pre-out. Don't have plan yet to upgrade my Rear 686 (probably next year). With this upgrade plan, I will have my Pioneer LX70 receiver acts as pre/pro, just used to power center and may be later 686 for surround back. One of the great features I like from LX70 is TrueHD/MasterAudio that well perform with my HTPC.

My HT now is 5.1 (802Ds, Polkaudio center CS1, 686 Rears, and Polkaudio sub PW450).

[kmcheng]

Alternatively, you may consider just upgrading the center channel and leave the rears as is.

That way you may be able to get HTM1D or HTM2D to go with the diamond tweeters on your 802D. Presumably, amplication for one channel would also be cheaper than for three channels.

How do you like your current front stage? It seems to me that the Polk and B&W are not perfect match with each other. A zero-cost experiment is to try a phantom center and see if you may like it better. Just tell your receiver that you have no center channel. The receiver will then re-distribute all the information to the left and right speakers.

[d52232dole]

Hi Cheng,

Yes, getting new Center B&W 3S is my plan for this year. It's not a perfect match with 802D but my budget will not allow me to spend > $3k for a center.
=> Do I need to get a separate amp for this new Center (and later on for better Rears like 805S)? Or my LX70 is sufficient?
=> I now have LX70 "acting" as a pre/processor since I like the HD TrueHD/MasterAudio feature taking signals from my HTPC, is it a good choice?

I am happy with current stage. 802D is sweet but powerful, makes music live and detailed, also makes Hometheater enjoyable. FYI for HT mode, I set 802D as "Large" (from Receiver) and I don't really need Sub since 2 subs from 802D is comparable with separate sub.

[kmcheng]

Hi Cheng,

Yes, getting new Center B&W 3S is my plan for this year. It's not a perfect match with 802D but my budget will not allow me to spend > $3k for a center.
=> Do I need to get a separate amp for this new Center (and later on for better Rears like 805S)? Or my LX70 is sufficient?
=> I now have LX70 "acting" as a pre/processor since I like the HD TrueHD/MasterAudio feature taking signals from my HTPC, is it a good choice?

This comes back to what you want you "ultimate" system to be. Since you have the 802D, I am thinking that eventually you want to end up with HTM1D or HTM2D, and the HTM3S is a "stepping stone" towards that goal.

From my own experience, I have concluded that I should either do it right at the outset, or not do it at all. It cost me more money and trouble to upgrade and change out the various components. I should have decided on what I really wanted, and then acquire those pieces one by one.

If you are happy with your current sound stage, then I suggest that you stay with it for now and only upgrade when you feel comfortable with getting the HTM1D or HTM2D.

If your receiver can decode the Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA, then it will serve you well for HT. The next step up will likely cost a lot of money. Personally I will spend that money on a new center channel with a new amp. Also, unless you have an ideal room, the differences between different processors would be quite difficult to tell.

[d52232dole]

Hi Cheng,

I ordered HTM2D, thanks for advice!

Next (few months), I will probably get a 3-channel amp to drive my HTM2D and yet-to-purchased (better) Rears than my 686.

I have dedicated room but it's on 2nd floor and I rarely/lazily use it (I have an old audio system there). I now put all in my living room and it's not perfect room yet (I will post pics soon), and plan to move to a bigger house next 2 years.

[htsteve]

I ordered HTM2D, thanks for advice!

Excellent choice.

[d52232dole]

My HTM2D arrived. After 3 hours, I can feel noticeable difference, still driven by receiver Pioneer LX70 (at around 135wpc. I will get a separate amp (Krell 3250) to drive it and rears.

I will need to put HTM2D on a rack/shelf that is about 1.6m up from floor. Is it a good or acceptable position? I have seen some pics putting about 0.5 or 1m up from floor, only 1-2 pics with the height about 1.6m.

[htsteve]

My HTM2D arrived. After 3 hours, I can feel noticeable difference, still driven by receiver Pioneer LX70 (at around 135wpc. I will get a separate amp (Krell 3250) to drive it and rears.

I will need to put HTM2D on a rack/shelf that is about 1.6m up from floor. Is it a good or acceptable position? I have seen some pics putting about 0.5 or 1m up from floor, only 1-2 pics with the height about 1.6m.

d52232dole,

I'm not surprised that the HTM2D is a noticeable improvement for you. And wait will you get an external amp to drive it. the Krell should open it up quite a bit, as well as the breakin time for the 2D. You will really enjoy a fully integrated front stage.

As to placement, ideally you want the tweeter height of the 2D to be the same height as your 802D's. So at 1.6 meters, it should be fairly close. My 2D is about a meter off the floor, a bit below my 802D's, and it works very well.


Hope this helps.

[d52232dole]

Hi Steve,
The placement of my 2D will be around 0.4-0.5 above the top/tweeter of 802D, and I plan to angle the 2D down a bit so that it will face down to the top of sofa. That is the ONLY choice I have now if I stick with current living room.