ASW875 with 802D's

[joe_s]

I've been told the ASW875's are not yet shipping. I'm pretty close to finalizing the purchase of a 5.1 system with 802D's as the front left and right speakers, and am leaning toward HTM1D for the center. I will probably go with McIntosh MC501's for the front three speakers.

This system will be 50-50 music and home theater. I assume I could wait on the sub and route the LFE channel to the 802D's and HTM1D pending availability of the ASW875. Alternatively I could buy a different sub now.

The room is approximately 4000 cubic feet.

A dealer is suggesting I consider a Velodyne DD 18 as an alternative to the ASW875.

Given the usage profile, the decison on the 802D's and HTM1D, what are the pros / cons between ASW875 and the Velodyne DD 18 (or some other choice).......in addition to the wait for the ASW875 ?

Thanks for any input. (I've never utilized a subwoofer to this point as my audio / video has been pretty basic)

[perato]

B&W subs are not good value. I have ASW 650 and from what I've read, Velodyne, SVS, and HSU would have been a better value. The new ASW 875 has not even been reviewed and dealers probably do not have it for you to listen to. Why buy something you haven't listened to? Equalization and placement are very important for subwoofers. The dimensions of your room (not just the total cubic feet) will determine your room modes and what equalization you would need. Any furnishings and room treatments/materials of construction will also have an effect on the frequency response of the subwoofer. Generally, Velodyne subwoofers seem to be held in greater esteem than B&W subwoofers (they also cost more). Some people on this forum seem to like REL. You can search the forums for posts on subwoofers. Remember, the human ear can only hear down to 20 Hertz. Anything below that might be felt but not heard. Of course you would have to make sure that a loud 14 Hz wave would not damage anything or upset WAF.

[sikoniko]

I have an ASW-850 and I can say confidently it was worth every penny! It may be more expensive, but it is the best sub I have heard. I say get the 875. It will seemlessly match your 802D's!

[Jeff]

The matching of subwoofers with brands is not as important as other speaker matches IMO. B&W 875 is a lot of sub. They would be great for those who like 2 channel listening. For critical listening I dought you could do better.

However, for HT your speading a lot of $ for LFE. Joe, your putting together a heck of a system. With those 802D's a sub will not be needed for 2 channel listening. So one could reason the sub would be purchased primarily for HT. Your spending a bundle now. Perheps a few K more
won't amount to much, but that may be an area where $ can be put to a
better use elsewhere.

[caleb]

I swapped my Paradigm servo 15 for the B&W 850.

Some of it was to please her indoors (that big black box thing!) but I am not sorry - the 850 does interface with my 802's much better.

(Expensive swap though)

[Rags]

I have been told that the 875 will be released in Q3 2005.

[jahlion]

I have a feeling the new B&W LRO (Listening Room Optimizer) will be a very noticable improvement. I also like the use of the Class-D amplifier too.

[DanR]

I agree with Caleb. I use an ASW850 with the 802 and it is a seamless fit. Sound is very, very nice. Tight and extremely quick for a 15 incher.

[Stevebez]

To me the best thing of these new subs is the Room Optimiser ... I would audition the sub with this uncalibrated and then calibrated and see what difference it makes ... comes on the 865 and 875 I think but not on the 850.

Rgds Steve.

[alkalay]

Hey Joe

Hey,

Sounds like some serious 5.1 ... Have I missed it, or you haven't mentioned anything about those 2 rear channels?

I do music most of the time and have a 675 taking over my CM4 mains at anything<=60Hz and music sounds GREAT!!! Coming from a place where I come from, the 675 costs around 1500US$ (not cheap to say the least), do I think it's worth it? Definitely!!!
I'm sure a good dealer will happily give ya a 875 for a home audition after having bought, say two 802D's!
I enjoy what's supposed to be the top of the line sub at the 600S3 series, I can't (no,no I really CAN'T) even begin to think what's going on at the top of the top.

Itai.

[PewterTA]

I for one, expect for looks...don't think B&W subs can compare to the ones from HSU and SVS.

I went through the 600, 650, 675 and 850 trying to get a sub that I liked. None of them blended seemlessly into the sound stage so it seemed it was an extension of the speaker, not sticking out like a sore thumb.

That's when I went and found an SVS sub and realized what I was missing or gaining or whatever you want to call it. I for the moment ended up with a sub that works well, but is not my end all be all sub from SVS, but I don't move. For a price less than the 850, I got almost double the performance of the 850. It moves more air than the sealed speakers ever could. I'm hitting hi SPL at frequencies in the 16Hz range with no problem. It's something that I couldn't get the B&W subs to do.

I don't use the sub for music, so the "quickness" as people say of a sealed design didn't bother me. I just want seemless integration. I don't want to hear the sub or know it's there, I just want it to pound me in the chest.

I just can't justify the price of the B&W subs with HSU and especially SVS offering furniture grade cabinets with their subs and you can get them to match just about anything (if you are willing to pay).

I think anyone that won't at least give HSU and SVS (and there are others out there like ACI, Adire, etc.) a try, especially with the 30+ day trials, is just really missing out on great things and an unbelievable price!

[Rags]

For a price less than the 650, I got almost double the performance of the 850.

I have had a listen to a few SVS subs and none of them so far compare to a B&W 850 - not even close !!

These include - PC Ultra, PB12-Plus/2 and a PB10-ISD - sure something like the PC Ultra is cheaper than an 850 but the extra for the 850 is worth it in my humble opinion for the extra performance and decent looks. A friend of mine who has owned several SVS subs has recently bought a 850 and even he thinks the improvement is significant.

PewterTA - the ASW650 costs $700 (before discount) - per your statement above you are saying that a sub costing less than $700 from SVS offers double the performance of the ASW 850 - if find that staggering and a bit of a joke given my personal experience as noted above with several SVS subs. There is a night and day difference between something like a SVS PC+ (which costs more than $700) and the ASW850 in favour of the B&W. Just massive. I also have a SVS PB10-ISD sitting in my garage at the moment. This costs $500 (approx) inc shipping. I have tried it and to be honest it I don’t want to give it houseroom and its now up for sale. To compare its performance with something like an ASW 850 or even an ASW 825 or a ASW750 (all of which I have owned) is simply a tragedy !

Don’t get me wrong - I think very highly of SVS subs and feel that they offer good value for money as long as you are willing to live with their looks and finish. The PC Ultra is especially a very very good performer. SVS subs however do not offer many times better performance (about 8 times per your statement!) than good subs in the same price range from other manufacturers.

Each to their own opinion I suppose.

[joe_s]

Thanks all for the input on the sub. It's unfortunate that the new 875 is 3rd Qtr.....I had thought it was this spring....but I've waited a long time for a nice system, and a few more months won't make or break my decision.

Current course and speed, depending upon a price from a dealer I expect this week, I'll mirror the front left and right with 802D's for the rear.....probably overkill, but this is my 50th birthday present to myself....doubt i do it again at 60.

The reason I looked at the Velodyne is that it appeared to have similar room optimization capabilities to the B&W, but it's all in the sound I guess, not the specs. It also had a 18 inch driver which may have both pros and cons i suppose.

I'm a bit concerned about the integration of the bass controls offered by the McIntosh MX-135 with these speakers but the dealer and McIntosh are attempting to clarify for me.

I suppose I could route the LFE channel to the mains until I could trial the 875. At this point, I think I'd hate to have a all B&W system, and not have even tried their new sub. I may love it....or may prefer something else. The similiarity in appearance would definitely be a positive.

Thanks again.

[Phil Rose]

Possibly the main reason to wait for the new sub from B&W would be for the cosmetics that would match your 802Ds.

I have an older Velodyne HGS-18 and must say that it delivers huge amounts of very low distortion bass. The HSG stand for High Gain Servo and gives you bass with less than 0.5% THD (typical) because the amp system monitors cone motion vs. input and corrects for errors. One thing that you'll notice maybe is that with such low distortion bass it won't sound like what you've become accustomed to which is probably bass with distortion >10% typically.

I just installed a Behringer (sp) Feedback Destroyer (FBD) so that I could do parametric equalization of the LF and must say that it has improved the bass significantly. Now with the FBD I get the benefits of the new DD-18 for a measly $100 and a little effort.

My system uses N802s for the mains and I never use the sub for music but, before I got the big B&Ws I did and must say that the Velodyne is outstanding in this role. It's tight, not flabby and goes really, really low. I wish that I'd had the FBD back when I was using it for music. It would have made the integration of the sub so much better. Not that it was bad without it.

So, if it were me, I'd seriously consider the DD-18. It will rock a HT and will also do beautifuly for music if that's what you choose. The DD technology takes all of the work out of equalizing the low frequencies and will make a dramatic improvement in the bass. The ASW-875 may be the equal of the DD-18 but it won't top it in performance.

[RobP]

I would suggest sticking with the B&W line. B&W designed these subwoofers with the same system characteristics as their main speakers. I personally own a ASW850, and it blends perfectly with my N803's. Of course with any subwoofer, proper setup is critical. You should never be able to listen to your system and localize the subwoofer, it should vanish, If you can localize it, then you have a location issue or the level is set too high.

[PewterTA]

Rags, that was a typo, I meant the comparison in price to the 850 not the 650. I have corrected that typo.

It to each it's own I guess on the subwoofer issue... I just was completely disappointed with the performance (for the price) of the B&W subs. I LOVE B&W speakers. I will eventually have the N802Ds someday...so it's nothing like that. Just the moment I got the SVS PB12-Ultra/2 it immediately blended with the speakers. I could not get the B&W placed right to get the same performance, texture, sound, and response... I just felt like I was paying for a name, instead of performance. I originally was wanting to keep the B&W just to keep the same manufacturer together...but decided that the performance/dollar just wasn't worth it. So I returned the B&W.

Both subs, I should note, were calibrated and ran through the BFD that I have. Both subs were moved around the room to find the optimal location. So it's not like I didn't try to make both work.

Now I will admit that I have since heard the ACI Maestro and it is now top of my list, I had wanted a SVS B12-Plus/4, but two ACI Maestros crush the performance of the B12-Plus/4... So to me, my loyalty resides with the sound quality and performance over any brand or manufacturer...

Again, sorry for the typo.

[sugarmedia]

I use AX45697 but really enjoy the cmd555z's? Has anyone every tried the RX452's? It seems that when you pair up the RX452's with the xyz777's you get a helluva lot of awesome sound.

Now, wouldn't it be nice if speaker companys actually made products that were easier to reference than number and letter codes? Such a marketing mistake....

[Stockinv]

Sub with 802D's

I have 802D's on order along with the ASW750 sub. Will this particular sub be appropriate for the 802's or should I have moved up to the ASW800?
They both have the same 12" driver and 1000 watt amp.

[Kyle]

Rags, you selling that 10" SVS?

[Rags]

Yes but I live in London !

[Stockinv]

I have 802D's on order along with the ASW750 sub. Will this particular sub be appropriate for the 802's or should I have moved up to the ASW800?
They both have the same 12" driver and 1000 watt amp.

Any thoughts?

[Aussie Geoff]

Stockinv,

My dealer sells lots of ASW750 Instead of the ASW800 - same power, driver and very similar sound at (in Aussie) a way way less price...

However he strongly recommends the ASW 850 for the 802s and the equivalent (875) for the 802Ds... I have head the ASW850 and it is one of the best subs I have ever heard - so musical, tight and deep (14 Hz). So If your budget prohibits a 875 now - get the 750 - then save and do the upgrade later

Geoff

[Race Car Driver]

4 802D's.......


W O W !

[jahlion]

Any thoughts?

I would get the ASW 865 or ASW 875 if you can afford it, but I heard they aren't shipping until Q3 though. DSP room-correction is key for seemless integration with room acoustics.

[joe_s]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I may just route the LFE signal to the 802D's until I can at least evaluate the ASW875. Hopefully I won't damage the 802D's by doing this. I guess that's another question.