B&W 802D and Rotel gear

[BWLover]

What would rotel gear sound like on the 802D. Is there anything (from rotel) that could make the 802D shine even a little

[wettou]

What would rotel gear sound like on the 802D. Is there anything (from rotel) that could make the 802D shine even a little

Yes I had tried the Class D Rotel RB-1091 and they do a good job or You might want to try XPA-1 from Emotiva Class A/B

[HedgeHog]

Like this? [YOUTUBE]2rZ3U6HJEbc[/YOUTUBE]

[PewterTA]

The Rotel RB-1090 will completely control the 802Ds and make them sound very similiar to a Classe CAM400. Now I'm not saying it'll reveal every little nuance (sp?) of what the classe amp will...but if you demoed the two one day apart, you'd have a tough time telling the differences in them.

I've even heard the 802Ds with a 1080 now and it works the speakers really well. I think it's a great combo (Rotel & B&W) if one can't afford the bigger 4K+ amps.

I've now heard a XPA-1 (well 2 XPA-1s) and thought it was just as good as the Rotel RB-1090. I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to pick them up. The sound stage is about the only difference I really noticed between them. In the end I kept my 1090 since I already owned it.

[ray5]

The Rotel RB-1090 will completely control the 802Ds and make them sound very similiar to a Classe CAM400. Now I'm not saying it'll reveal every little nuance (sp?) of what the classe amp will...but if you demoed the two one day apart, you'd have a tough time telling the differences in them.

I've even heard the 802Ds with a 1080 now and it works the speakers really well. I think it's a great combo (Rotel & B&W) if one can't afford the bigger 4K+ amps.

I've now heard a XPA-1 (well 2 XPA-1s) and thought it was just as good as the Rotel RB-1090. I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to pick them up. The sound stage is about the only difference I really noticed between them. In the end I kept my 1090 since I already owned it.

Hi! Just sent you a PM.
Ray

[garak]

The Rotel RB-1090 will completely control the 802Ds and make them sound very similiar to a Classe CAM400. Now I'm not saying it'll reveal every little nuance (sp?) of what the classe amp will...but if you demoed the two one day apart, you'd have a tough time telling the differences in them.

I'm afraid I must disagree on this point. I've owned both Rotel and Classe with my 803Ds, and the difference is not subtle.

The is much more detail and clarity with the Classe. The soundstage is much deeper and broader, and the imaging is much clearer as well. With the Classe, you're totally enveloped by the sound - I feel like I am at the performance.

[PewterTA]

I'm not saying there's not a difference between the two, there definitely is...

What I'm saying is, if one can't afford ~$8K in amplifers, the Rotel 1090 is very similar sound to them. When you compare a 1090 to a Bryston, Krell, McIntosh, etc., to me, the Rotel has more of a "Classe type sound" than compared to other companies.

That's more what I meant than saying it's nearly identical to a CA-M400.

[mjb]

AND, there is a big difference between the Rotel A/B and D amps. An RB-1092 (or RB-1091's) can drive 802D's to extremely loud levels and still sound excellent in the process. I know this first hand. Not to say that Classe isn't better, but Rotel is very, very good with B&W.

Rotel is a B&W daughter company, I'm sure B&W are interested in making sure they work well together.

[sikoniko]

I'm not saying there's not a difference between the two, there definitely is...

What I'm saying is, if one can't afford ~$8K in amplifers, the Rotel 1090 is very similar sound to them. When you compare a 1090 to a Bryston, Krell, McIntosh, etc., to me, the Rotel has more of a "Classe type sound" than compared to other companies.

That's more what I meant than saying it's nearly identical to a CA-M400.

I just wanted to thank you for clearing that up. :T Your original post read like you could buy the 1090 and get a similar experience to the Classe amp. Someone with no experience with either brand would probably misread your comments. Adequate, possibly. Similar, no.

Rotel sounds colored to me. Classe is transparent. Both fine amplifiers and have their audience.

[wettou]

The Rotel RB-1090 will completely control the 802Ds and make them sound very similiar to a Classe CAM400. Now I'm not saying it'll reveal every little nuance (sp?) of what the classe amp will...but if you demoed the two one day apart, you'd have a tough time telling the differences in them.

I've even heard the 802Ds with a 1080 now and it works the speakers really well. I think it's a great combo (Rotel & B&W) if one can't afford the bigger 4K+ amps.

I've now heard a XPA-1 (well 2 XPA-1s) and thought it was just as good as the Rotel RB-1090. I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to pick them up. The sound stage is about the only difference I really noticed between them. In the end I kept my 1090 since I already owned it.

THe Classé will sound different than the rotel at least for my ears

XPA-1 & XPA-2 are very different, XPA-1 is built as a fully balanced but the XPA-2 is not I heard XPA-1 is an amazing amp

[BWLover]

the 1090 my dealer told me has a bit of transformer hum or hiss of some sorts. Any comments on that?

[wettou]

the 1090 my dealer told me has a bit of transformer hum or hiss of some sorts. Any comments on that?

I had the same experience and the hiss was due to a deffective unit same thing happened with the Classé CA-5200 Classé replaced it free of charge :B

[PewterTA]

If you have the amp first check to see if you have a cable ground loop. Disconnect your cable from your cable company (unplug it from your system). IF that stops then your getting a ground loop interference which can be dealt with in many ways. Other than that, I would disconnect the amp and see if it does it with just the speakers hooked up to it and nothing else.

If it does, something is wrong with the amp I would wager. It should be dead silent just hooked up to the speakers.

[Eliav]

I'm afraid I must disagree on this point. I've owned both Rotel and Classe with my 803Ds, and the difference is not subtle.

The is much more detail and clarity with the Classe. The soundstage is much deeper and broader, and the imaging is much clearer as well. With the Classe, you're totally enveloped by the sound - I feel like I am at the performance.

I concur. Had the same experience with rmb1095 driving 802d, when switched to cam400 x2 there was a big difference, even my wife who opposed spending 10k on Classe admitted there was significant difference.

[Hallett]

I concur. Had the same experience with rmb1095 driving 802d, when switched to cam400 x2 there was a big difference, even my wife who opposed spending 10k on Classe admitted there was significant difference.

I sure like mine with the 802D's .i think i will just keep them :T

[joetama]

Like this? [YOUTUBE]2rZ3U6HJEbc[/YOUTUBE]

Is that your youtube video? I watched that the other day when I was burning time on youtube.






Anyway, the better your speaker the more you get out of what goes into them. I'm sure that with the Rotel the 802D sound fantastic, as Rotel builds some pretty awesome products. But, are they doing them total justice? I think there is more to be had if you can justify the expense on the higher end amplifiers. But, are you really getting more? There is only one way to find out. In my opinion and experience going with better amplification and sources increases dynamics, adds more clarity, increases the realizm factor, and helps to benefit that sweet sounding diamond tweeter. Would 802D sound good with Rotel, I would say yes. Would it sound better with Classe or another brand, definitely.

[mjb]

Another case of the 80/20 rule -
IMO Rotel gives you a lot for a 2k amp, considering the next move up can cost 10k (or more). I just can't justify that to either myself, or her indoors. Others obviously can.

[BWLover]

I don't have the 1090 I was just wondering if the amp makes any kind of hum or hiss into the speakers or if the amp itself hums. Does anybody own the rotel rb-1090 that can let me know? Also can u get that amp in silver or was it only produced in black? Everytime I see it for sale used it's black.

[crytklmass]

I owned a Rotel rmb1090 with my b&w 802d's and I didn't hear any hiss from my speakers or amp. It was silent. For the price and quality imo the Rotel was awesome. I don't believe you can purchase a new Rotel rmb1090, I think they stopped making them.
I also agree with the other comments, Classe, Mac amps etc do reproduce better sound, and cost more, but everyone has a budget.

[KyaDawn]

AND, there is a big difference between the Rotel A/B and D amps. An RB-1092 (or RB-1091's) can drive 802D's to extremely loud levels and still sound excellent in the process. I know this first hand. Not to say that Classe isn't better, but Rotel is very, very good with B&W.

Rotel is a B&W daughter company, I'm sure B&W are interested in making sure they work well together.

What is the big difference between the Rotel A/B and D amps? I'm considering the RB-1092 myself for my 802Ds which will arrive in a couple of weeks.

[htsteve]

What is the big difference between the Rotel A/B and D amps? I'm considering the RB-1092 myself for my 802Ds which will arrive in a couple of weeks.

KyaDawn,

The main differences are the size and efficiencies. Class D amps are simply smaller units. I had a 1077 that was about three inches tall. And class D units run cool. You doun't need much space or ventilation.

I've had Rotel class A/B and class D. I found the performance comparable between the two types. There are some differences, but not major (at least to me)

A 1092 for 802D's would be quite excellent. Lot's of power. 802D's love current, not just watts. The more current, the better. I was running my 802D's off of a 200 watt 5 channel amp and it sounded very, very good. I just added a dedcated 250 wpc stereo amp to drive them. The watts are not much more, but the current delivery is much improved. And performance definitely improved.

The listed peak current on the 1092 is 40 amps, plenty to run the 802D's with gusto.


Hope this helps.

[wettou]

The listed peak current on the 1092 is 40 amps, plenty to run the 802D's with gusto.

Do you know what is the peak current is for Classé CA-5200 and CAM400 ?

[KyaDawn]

KyaDawn,

The main differences are the size and efficiencies. Class D amps are simply smaller units. I had a 1077 that was about three inches tall. And class D units run cool. You doun't need much space or ventilation.

I've had Rotel class A/B and class D. I found the performance comparable between the two types. There are some differences, but not major (at least to me)

A 1092 for 802D's would be quite excellent. Lot's of power. 802D's love current, not just watts. The more current, the better. I was running my 802D's off of a 200 watt 5 channel amp and it sounded very, very good. I just added a dedcated 250 wpc stereo amp to drive them. The watts are not much more, but the current delivery is much improved. And performance definitely improved.

The listed peak current on the 1092 is 40 amps, plenty to run the 802D's with gusto.


Hope this helps.

Thanks htsteve, yes it helps a lot. The RB-1092 is looking better and better to me. :T

I was wondering also what you thought were the sonic differences between Rotel's A/B and D amps?

[nikos]

How well would the 1077 run the 802D's or 803D's bi-amped ?

If I take the plunge I will be stuck with it for quite sometime as I'll be trying to pay off the speakers before I can afford a better amp.... and I already have it...

Thanks

[garak]

How well would the 1077 run the 802D's or 803D's bi-amped ?

If I take the plunge I will be stuck with it for quite sometime as I'll be trying to pay off the speakers before I can afford a better amp.... and I already have it...

Thanks

I had my 803D's bi-amped with a 1077 for a while. I'd say the 1077 did good job, and the bi-amping definitely made an improvement. If you ask me what percentage of the total performance the 1077 gets out of the 803D's, I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-75%.

I'd say that 75% is a pretty good number though. You'd really start getting into the big dollar amps to get a higher number.

[nikos]

I had my 803D's bi-amped with a 1077 for a while. I'd say the 1077 did good job, and the bi-amping definitely made an improvement. If you ask me what percentage of the total performance the 1077 gets out of the 803D's, I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-75%.

I'd say that 75% is a pretty good number though. You'd really start getting into the big dollar amps to get a higher number.

Thanks exactly what I was looking for.

Anybody with a similar evaluation for the 802D? I'm guessing less...but how much less? Will I be getting below 70% out of the speakers performance?

Thanks

[mjb]

I'm not really sure how anyone can guestimate how much performance they're getting from they're speakers, but I do agree with the comment that you would have to get into really high dollar amps to improve on a Rotel B&W combo.

From Rotel, I have used a 1077 (7x100), 1092 (2x500), and a 1565 (5x100) with my 802d's.

The 1077 sounded beautiful, but I admit it was a little under powered (I did not bi-amp it).

Next, I went with the 1092 after reading comments on this board like "the 802's like lots of power". It was a bad descision. Movie performance was excellent, it was the 2 channel stuff that let it down. The 1092 is LOUD, but its not refined.

I then tried (and currently use) a 1565 (5x100w). To my ears, it sounds the best so far. So, I've ordered a 1575 (5x250w) hoping that the extra 3db will be enough, and that the sound colour won't change. I'll report back when I have it.

It's difficult to directly compare Rotel A/B and D amps, the D amps are extremely efficient, and can really pack a punch. The problem is, if you're used to big heavy amps, its really hard to imagine that such a small amp can perform so well. When the 1077 came out, people who replaced their 1095 (5x200w) with it claimed the 1077 (7x100w) was much better sounding and went louder (search these forums it you don't believe me).

[Mayko]

I know that the Parasound JC-1 peak current is 135 amp, thats enough

[wettou]

Thanks htsteve, yes it helps a lot. The RB-1092 is looking better and better to me. :T I was wondering also what you thought were the sonic differences between Rotel's A/B and D amps?

I can tell you Classe and Rotel comparison Classe was a lot better for my taste I listen to a 80% classical SACDs:B

[mjb]

I know that the Parasound JC-1 peak current is 135 amp, thats enough

Which is pure marketing BS, two minutes with ohms law will tell you something is a miss: it doesn't add up. The JC-1 is rated 400w into 8 ohms, which is around 7 amps @ 56 volts (assuming its 100% efficient - which it can never be).

[mjb]

I can tell you Classe and Rotel comparison Classe was a lot better for my taste I listen to a 80% classical SACDs:B

That may well be, but Classe is 5-10 times the price :E

[htsteve]

Thanks htsteve, yes it helps a lot. The RB-1092 is looking better and better to me. :T

I was wondering also what you thought were the sonic differences between Rotel's A/B and D amps?

KyaDawn,

My impressions of the class D are that the highs were just a tad bit more clinical. Also, I was impressed with how well it controlled bass with only 100 watts per channel. Overall I thought the 1077 sounded like the 1080 I had.


Hope this helps.

[htsteve]

How well would the 1077 run the 802D's or 803D's bi-amped ?

If I take the plunge I will be stuck with it for quite sometime as I'll be trying to pay off the speakers before I can afford a better amp.... and I already have it...

Thanks

nikos,

An excellent question. I did that very thing. I bi-amped my 802D's and HTM2D with the 1077. It was very good performance. As noted above, I was impressed with the bass response for only 100 watts. It sounded like I had 1080's powering the front stage.

Having said all this, I think you should consider the Rotel RB1575, 5 X 250 watts. I think that would do justice to 802D's or 803D's. The cost is similar to the 1077, and you avoid spending more on cables and speaker wire.

The 802D's LOVE current. I suspect that the 1575 would have better current than bi-amping with a 1077.


Hope this helps.

[wettou]

That may well be, but Classe is 5-10 times the price :E

More like 2 times the price :B

[Mayko]

Which is pure marketing BS, two minutes with ohms law will tell you something is a miss: it doesn't add up. The JC-1 is rated 400w into 8 ohms, which is around 7 amps @ 56 volts (assuming its 100% efficient - which it can never be).

Read the Measurements please, or the hole story

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774/index6.html

[Mayko]

The JC-1 gives much more power than 400 W at 8 ohms.

[wettou]

Emotiva XPA-1 500W at 8Ω and 1000W at 4Ω :T

now if only they had their introductory sale again :cry:

[KyaDawn]

I demoed the Rotel RB-1092 vs. the Classe CA-2200 and then vs. two Omega 500W monoblocks with 802Ds a couple of days ago.

One thing I noticed right away was how the Rotel sounded much harsher than the other two. With some of my reference CDs that I auditioned my 802Ds with which were driven with the Classe 2200 at the time, the sound on a couple of tracks with the Rotel, including "Lost Cause" by Beck from "Sea Change", seemed so different from the Classe that I almost wondered if I was listening to the same speakers.

One thing was I found Beck's voice to be a lot "dryer" than when listening with the Classe. Everything actually sounded "leaner", though the bass was prevalent and "fast" and "tight".

Not surprisingly, the Omegas sounded the best. There were times where the soundstage was so large and resounding that I got nearly the "omnidirectional" experience that I've had with MBL speakers.

However, I thought the Rotel improved certain recordings which I thought were a little "tubby" with the Classe. They say the 802D has a mid-range hump, which I have noticed on certain tracks like "The Great Gig in the Sky" off "Dark Side of the Moon", and I felt that the Rotel "reduced" that hump and gave the track more "balance" than the Classe.

Overall, the Omegas were in a class of their own, and if I was to upgrade, I would aim for these or at least a couple of CA-M400s. In terms of what is within my budget, I found the CA-2200 to sound great, but the Rotel had pros as well as cons that I can live with, and costs less than half. So I went with the Rotel, but I can see myself considering upgrading to Classe down the line.

[wettou]

Omega 500 monoblock with 800D :B

[JoeTheLion]

I demoed the Rotel RB-1092 vs. the Classe CA-2200 and then vs. two Omega 500W monoblocks with 802Ds a couple of days ago.

One thing I noticed right away was how the Rotel sounded much harsher than the other two. With some of my reference CDs that I auditioned my 802Ds with which were driven with the Classe 2200 at the time, the sound on a couple of tracks with the Rotel, including "Lost Cause" by Beck from "Sea Change", seemed so different from the Classe that I almost wondered if I was listening to the same speakers.

One thing was I found Beck's voice to be a lot "dryer" than when listening with the Classe. Everything actually sounded "leaner", though the bass was prevalent and "fast" and "tight".

Not surprisingly, the Omegas sounded the best. There were times where the soundstage was so large and resounding that I got nearly the "omnidirectional" experience that I've had with MBL speakers.

However, I thought the Rotel improved certain recordings which I thought were a little "tubby" with the Classe. They say the 802D has a mid-range hump, which I have noticed on certain tracks like "The Great Gig in the Sky" off "Dark Side of the Moon", and I felt that the Rotel "reduced" that hump and gave the track more "balance" than the Classe.

Overall, the Omegas were in a class of their own, and if I was to upgrade, I would aim for these or at least a couple of CA-M400s. In terms of what is within my budget, I found the CA-2200 to sound great, but the Rotel had pros as well as cons that I can live with, and costs less than half. So I went with the Rotel, but I can see myself considering upgrading to Classe down the line.

Before I bought the Classe CAV-180 (5 x 180) for my 802, which are both not produced anymore, I demoed the rotel 1090 and Parasound JC-1's together with several other alternatives. JC-1's were more or less ok and the reviews said they would improve greatly by time, but they were not cheap. The 1090 on the other hand made me even regret the 5 minutes I spent waiting the sales guy switch the cables. Sounded loud, but so not refined. Even obviously missed so many sounds.

I would prefer to buy a cheaper B&W or go for a second hand Classe.

I don't know anything about the newer Rotel's though, maybe they improved them.

[Orb]

Hi KyaDawn.
If your considering jumping straight to a minimum of CAM400 in the future, then I can really recommend auditioning Chord Electronics SPM 1200E amp.
In the UK the Chord amp works out a little cheaper and has the benefit of taking up less room, being lighter, generating less heat.
When it comes to sound, well it is down to preference but these amps are in reference league with others such as Classe/etc.
The 1200e is a stereo amp; 2x 350watts into 8ohms, 2x 620w into 4ohms, and being stable down to around 2.5ohms for tough speakers (2ohms for tough speakers is being optimistic for this model).

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/products_detail.asp?id=14

Also Chord Electronics are known as exceptional workhorses in the pro world.

http://www.proaudioreview.com/article/410

Review done by a reputable and award winning engineer.

Cheers
Orb

[ray5]

For those who have Classe amps and 802D's or 803D's and HT, do you drive your fronts and center channel with different amps? For example a stereo 2 channel amp for the fronts and a separate amp for the center and surrounds? If yes, do you try to keep the wpc the same across the fronts? Or driving the center with a lesser powered amp is okay?
I see that Classe does not have a 3 channel amp and most people do have a 5.1 HT. Thanks.
Ray

[garak]

For those who have Classe amps and 802D's or 803D's and HT, do you drive your fronts and center channel with different amps? For example a stereo 2 channel amp for the fronts and a separate amp for the center and surrounds? If yes, do you try to keep the wpc the same across the fronts? Or driving the center with a lesser powered amp is okay?
I see that Classe does not have a 3 channel amp and most people do have a 5.1 HT. Thanks.
Ray

I've got 803Ds and an HTM2D powered by a CA-5200. Having the same amp for the front 3 is great for creating a seamless soundstage.

In the back of my mind, I know that when upgraditis gets me, I'll probably move to 802Ds with a pair of CAM-400s. At that point, I'll probably bi-amp my HTM2D with 2 channels from the CA-5200. So that will sort of keep the wpc similar.

So yes, I would try to keep the power similar, especially if you listen to multi-channel music. For movies, it's probably not as critical.

However, Classe does have a 3 channel amp, the CA-3200. That might work best for your application.

[ray5]

I've got 803Ds and an HTM2D powered by a CA-5200. Having the same amp for the front 3 is great for creating a seamless soundstage.

In the back of my mind, I know that when upgraditis gets me, I'll probably move to 802Ds with a pair of CAM-400s. At that point, I'll probably bi-amp my HTM2D with 2 channels from the CA-5200. So that will sort of keep the wpc similar.

So yes, I would try to keep the power similar, especially if you listen to multi-channel music. For movies, it's probably not as critical.

However, Classe does have a 3 channel amp, the CA-3200. That might work best for your application.

Thank you.