B&W 802D powered by Bryston 4BSST??

[digitalshah]

I am considering getting a pair of B&W 802D's down the road. Can they be powered by a single Bryston 4BSST without sacrificing the sound quality? Anyone who has used this combo before, any thoughts? Thanks

[wettou]

I am considering getting a pair of B&W 802D's down the road. Can they be powered by a single Bryston 4BSST without sacrificing the sound quality? Anyone who has used this combo before, any thoughts? Thanks

I heard them at a dealer and they sounded decent but I liked the Classe sound better. :B

[SoCalCM]

I wouldn't say you "sacrifice" sound quality -- the 802Ds are great speakers that sound good with just about any amp, rather they reward better and better amplification. I have the Classe CA2200 amp and they sounded the best with this amp without going off the cash deep end -- probably the "sweet" spot of $$/performance, above this amp you run into seriously diminishing returns. To max out the 802Ds -- the Boulder Monoblocks for $80K would likely do the trick, but I don't feel I am sacrificing sound quality because I can't afford them.

[DM3000 Owner]

Are you buying the Bryston new?

If you already have the Bryston 4B SST, you will not have any problems, but if you play them loud, you will need more powerful amps. If you already have the Bryston, go ahead and get the 802D's.

If you are buying the Bryston new, I recommend a more powerful amp. Try a pair of Bryston 7B St's for about $2800 for a mint pair and maybe 10 + years of warranty left on Audiogon.

I had both Bryston 7B St's and now Classe CAM 350s. They are extremely similar in sound, more so than you think by the responses on these forums. The Bryston's have more detail (microdetail, its actually unbelieveable how much they have) and the Classe have a slightly warmer sound.

They are really close though.

If you do not have an amp and want Classe but don't want to outlay $4000 to $10,000 for something powerful enough for your speakers, try a pair of CA 300's:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....e-CA300-Silver

They are known to be warmer sounding than the new amps and you can't beat the price.

[digitalshah]

Thanks for all your responses. I already have the 4b SST. I am hoping to use the 802D's at lower volumes with the 4b SST. I live in an apartment with neighbors below and next to my apt. Also, can one person move them around the room to unpack and position them? Thanks

[GregLett]

Thanks for all your responses. I already have the 4b SST. I am hoping to use the 802D's at lower volumes with the 4b SST. I live in an apartment with neighbors below and next to my apt. Also, can one person move them around the room to unpack and position them? Thanks

Bryston + 802 + neighbors = ... :twisted:

[DM3000 Owner]

Thanks for all your responses. I already have the 4b SST. I am hoping to use the 802D's at lower volumes with the 4b SST. I live in an apartment with neighbors below and next to my apt. Also, can one person move them around the room to unpack and position them? Thanks

You will be fine then.

I unpacked my S800's by myself. Pretty easy with the packaging materials. You just tip them and lift back up.

One thing that you need to do that may be difficult in an apartment. Save your shipping materials. I had a buyer spend $1000 on new boxes for a pair of N801's and I had to modify the foam inserts to work with them. Eventually the packaging materils for the 801D's will no longer be available.

[wettou]

I wouldn't say you "sacrifice" sound quality -- the 802Ds are great speakers that sound good with just about any amp, rather they reward better and better amplification. I have the Classe CA2200 amp and they sounded the best with this amp without going off the cash deep end -- probably the "sweet" spot of $$/performance, above this amp you run into seriously diminishing returns. To max out the 802Ds -- the Boulder Monoblocks for $80K would likely do the trick, but I don't feel I am sacrificing sound quality because I can't afford them.

Right my dealer just started carrying Boulder and these things are unbelievable.

I think for $80K I will go buy a Lexus SC430 :T

[beden1]

Eventually the packaging materils for the 801D's will no longer be available.

Did B&W announce they are discontinuing the 801Ds?

[beden1]

Also, can one person move them around the room to unpack and position them? Thanks

Someone else may know better than I, but I seem to remember reading that you if you lay the 802Ds down, you need to have the back side down.

[DM3000 Owner]

Ben,

I meant to write that eventually the 8xxD series will be discontinued and the boxes no longer available (even if you were willign to pay $1000 for replacements).

The boxes have inserts that are designed so that you can remove the outter cardboard and tip them and they are fully supported. They are actually engineered very well. My S800 boxes allow the same thing, but the design of the D series boxes is better.

[beden1]

Ben,

I meant to write that eventually the 8xxD series will be discontinued and the boxes no longer available (even if you were willign to pay $1000 for replacements).

The boxes have inserts that are designed so that you can remove the outter cardboard and tip them and they are fully supported. They are actually engineered very well. My S800 boxes allow the same thing, but the design of the D series boxes is better.

That's a good engineering job they did to support the speakers when unpacking. My 803Ds did not have that feature, and fortunately, I asked someone the right way to unpacked them or I probably would have placed them on their sides.

$1,000 for boxes would definitely be insult on top of injury! Your speakers must be real back breakers to lift. :E

[DM3000 Owner]

They are 275 lb each but you are only lifting a portion of the weight as you are only tipping them. I recommend 2 people but I was anxious and home alone when they arrived.

[SoCalCM]

The 802Ds are 176 lbs each. One person can handle the unpacking and set up.

[emig5m]

The 802Ds are 176 lbs each. One person can handle the unpacking and set up.

The new salesman at my local dealer couldn't even carry the 683. I did it with a broken foot, lol.

[Orb]

The new salesman at my local dealer couldn't even carry the 683. I did it with a broken foot, lol.

Is he related to Mr Burns (Simpsons)

Have a good weekend all.
Orb

[Greg Gale]

I had the Bryston 4 BSST and the 14BSST and compared both of them to the Classe CA2200 when I was looking to upgrade my Classe CA200 amplifier. I also evaluated the Ayre V1xe at the same time. I have the Nautilus 802 which are somewhat similar to the 802D.

I had them all for one week plus and listened to various music from Rock to Classical. I can say without hesitation that the Classe CA2200 was far more musical than either of the Brystons. I was thinking that maybe if I had the Bryston 14BSST which has 500 watts plus per channel this would give me the ability to play alot louder without running out of headroom. While the Brystons could certaintly play loudly they were a bit too harsh and fatiguing to my wife and I.

The bottom line is while the Bryston 4BSST can power the 802D, if you are looking for a more musical amplifier I strongly endorse the Classe CA2200. I even preferred the Classe to the Ayre amplifier which cost more and I am running this all through an Ayre K5xe preamp.

Good luck

[SoCalCM]

I did a long comparison demo of my CA2200 amp vs. the Classe CAM400 monoblocks, since my dealer was suggesting the upgrade and would let me trade the 2200 in on them. The demo left me more impressed with the CA2200. The monoblocks had a slight edge in bass control but the stereo amp did not really lack in this either. To my ears, it was very close -- both could play the 802Ds very loud but very clear. So I am keeping the CA2200.

[DM3000 Owner]

While the Brystons could certaintly play loudly they were a bit too harsh and fatiguing to my wife and I.

I never found the Brystons to be harsh or fatiguing. However, I used them with Nautilus and Signature, not diamond speakers.

My preamp is a Musical Fidelity A308 which is not harsh at all on top, maybe that is a factor.

When I compared the Classe CAM 350's and 7B ST's I found the difference in the midrange and upper bass and found them to be very close.

[Relentless]

I drove my 802D's with a 4BSST. My opinion is that the combo was fine at low to medium volumes. A very accurate clean sound, but as soon as you turned it up the bass started to thin out and the highs started to get painfully harsh.

The 802D dips into the 2omh range offen and that is what reaks havoc on the Bryston amp in my opinion.

If you are in an appartment and cannot listen to the amp cranked up you will be fine at medium voulmes. If you like the Bryston sound but want to be able to play it loud.........get Krell.

[wettou]

I drove my 802D's with a 4BSST. My opinion is that the combo was fine at low to medium volumes. A very accurate clean sound, but as soon as you turned it up the bass started to thin out and the highs started to get painfully harsh. The 802D dips into the 2omh range offen and that is what reaks havoc on the Bryston amp in my opinion. If you are in an appartment and cannot listen to the amp cranked up you will be fine at medium voulmes. If you like the Bryston sound but want to be able to play it loud.........get Krell.

Or Electrocompaniet Nemo, Pass Labs

[DM3000 Owner]

I drove my 802D's with a 4BSST. My opinion is that the combo was fine at low to medium volumes. A very accurate clean sound, but as soon as you turned it up the bass started to thin out and the highs started to get painfully harsh.

The 802D dips into the 2omh range offen and that is what reaks havoc on the Bryston amp in my opinion.

If you are in an appartment and cannot listen to the amp cranked up you will be fine at medium voulmes. If you like the Bryston sound but want to be able to play it loud.........get Krell.

The Brystons can handle the low impedence with ease. The problem is that the older ones had a switch to run them parallel or series (parallel for low impedence if I remember correctly). The new ones are wired either parallel or series. You may have been using a series wired amp, which is not suited to put out a lot of current.

In either event, it sounds like the amp was being driven beyond its capability, which is easy to do with 802's and a lower powered amp as the B&W's use current up in a hurry. My old 7B's never did what you described but they had quite a bit more power. They also ran very cool.

[Relentless]

The Brystons can handle the low impedence with ease. The problem is that the older ones had a switch to run them parallel or series (parallel for low impedence if I remember correctly). The new ones are wired either parallel or series. You may have been using a series wired amp, which is not suited to put out a lot of current.

In either event, it sounds like the amp was being driven beyond its capability, which is easy to do with 802's and a lower powered amp as the B&W's use current up in a hurry. My old 7B's never did what you described but they had quite a bit more power. They also ran very cool.

If I remember correctly the power ratings of my 4B SST was

325 8ohms
500 4ohms
325 2ohms

and I believe the 802D is a speaker that needs an amp that can continusly double its power as the impedence drops if you like to play it loud.

I have nothing against the 4B SST, the sound signature suits my listening taste just not my habit to push the 802D's when I had them.

[digitalshah]

Bryston 4b SST and 802D's

Relentless, so you're saying you actually used the 4b sst with the 802D's? How was the performance at low to mid volume?

[emig5m]

Power amps are way overrated. Look what these 801D's are being run on (Sony mini bookshelf system, no joke): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Wsj...eature=channel

I'd skip the high end amps and just go to Walmart and get the cheapest bookshelf system you can find. :E :lol:

[DM3000 Owner]

Relentless,

Maybe the 4B is different, but the 7B has two sections for each channel. These sections can be wired in series or parallel. If you use series and drop to 2 ohms, power output will decrease. But if you use the parallel setting power will increase into 2 ohms. This is all consistent with equations for series or parallel resistors.

FWIW, an amp cannot double into 4 ohms and then double again into two ohms, there are losses involved. The tests is how close can they get. Manufacturers "cook the books" by rating their amps at a lower wattage into 8 so that it has enough power to claim that it doubles into 4 and then into 2. The two amps that I have owned, Bryston 7B ST and Classe CAM 350's, check out their rated output by the manufacturer. The Classe claims to double into 4 ohms. But then check out the Stereophile test of these amps. Each puts out quite a bit more than its rated power at 8 ohms. Even though the Classe "doubles" notice in the tests that the Bryston is more stable at higher current (runs cooler and does not shut down).

At this level, just buy what sounds better to you. Regadless of any claimed doubling, they all seem to have enough power (the monoblocks) so that it is not a concern. I would be concerned if buying a Bryston SST series used though, as not having the choice to run parallel or series is not good if you ever change speakers and you need to ensure that it is factory set for your present speakers' demand (wattage or current). Go for the ST series with the parallel/series switch instead if buying used.

[JürgenW]

Power amps are way overrated. Look what these 801D's are being run on (Sony mini bookshelf system, no joke): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Wsj...eature=channel

And it sounds like I expected.

[DM3000 Owner]

Power amps are way overrated. Look what these 801D's are being run on (Sony mini bookshelf system, no joke): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Wsj...eature=channel

I'd skip the high end amps and just go to Walmart and get the cheapest bookshelf system you can find. :E :lol:

The poster claims that he has Krells on the way but I think that the second response to the post sums it all up in a very articulate manner. 8O

[DM3000 Owner]

Relentless, so you're saying you actually used the 4b sst with the 802D's? How was the performance at low to mid volume?

If you have a budget limit of say $3000 or so, buy Bryston 7B ST's if you really like the Bryston sound (fine amps - and enjoy the 10+ years that will be left on the warranty) because you may move some day. If you want something different, look at the older Classe amps that I linked to earlier for about $1500. Buying a new or used 4B for an 802 is probably a mistake in the long run.

[emig5m]

The poster claims that he has Krells on the way but I think that the second response to the post sums it all up in a very articulate manner. 8O

Yea I know I just thought it was funny to see such low end Walmart system pushing such high end speakers, heh. :lol:

[Orb]

Yea I know I just thought it was funny to see such low end Walmart system pushing such high end speakers, heh. :lol:

LOL I could not stop listening to that clip, rather fascinating sound at times to say the least :lol:

Happy weekend all
Orb

[chemguy]

If you want, go to AudioCircle's Bryston Circle (link below). Post your question there re the capabilities of the 4BSST or the 7BSST's. James Tanner, the Vice President and Owner of Bryston, responds to posts on this page every day. The customer service with this company is outstanding, something you might want to keep in mind.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=57

[Briz vegas]

8O

If I remember correctly the power ratings of my 4B SST was

325 8ohms
500 4ohms
325 2ohms

and I believe the 802D is a speaker that needs an amp that can continusly double its power as the impedence drops if you like to play it loud.

I have nothing against the 4B SST, the sound signature suits my listening taste just not my habit to push the 802D's when I had them.

Are you sure about these figures. I was reading about the McCormack DNA225 earlier this week in Stereophile. They measured their review example as


303watts 8ohms
575watts 4ohms
1018watts 2ohms
1532watts 1ohm


I wonder if this would be enough to drive an 802D :W

To quote Mr McCormack from 6 Moons review
"Anything that's purely resistive or approaches pure resistance like Vandersteens or Magnaplanars is relatively easy to drive. Just about any amplifier will do its best into those speakers. But when you start getting into some of the big Thiels, Aerials, B&Ws or Dynaudios that become very strongly reactive, now you're going to observe significant qualitative differences in how amplifiers actually behave and how relaxed and dynamic (or compressed and flat) they sound into such challenging loads."

[Relentless]

Relentless, so you're saying you actually used the 4b sst with the 802D's? How was the performance at low to mid volume?

Yes I used a 4bsst to drive the 802D's for long enough to know I needed a change to listen at the volumes that I like. If you are using the combo for low to medium volumes you will be happy.

[Relentless]

8O

Are you sure about these figures. I was reading about the McCormack DNA225 earlier this week in Stereophile. They measured their review example as


303watts 8ohms
575watts 4ohms
1018watts 2ohms
1532watts 1ohm


I wonder if this would be enough to drive an 802D :W

To quote Mr McCormack from 6 Moons review
"Anything that's purely resistive or approaches pure resistance like Vandersteens or Magnaplanars is relatively easy to drive. Just about any amplifier will do its best into those speakers. But when you start getting into some of the big Thiels, Aerials, B&Ws or Dynaudios that become very strongly reactive, now you're going to observe significant qualitative differences in how amplifiers actually behave and how relaxed and dynamic (or compressed and flat) they sound into such challenging loads."

I can not find the figures on the 4bsst anymore but if you look up the measurements on the 4bst on stereophile you will see pretty much the same results. As a matter of fact if you look up the 28bsst you will be surprised at its 2ohms measurement. My evo 400 puts out more output into 2omhs than there 1000 watt amp. Not that you would have to push a 1000w amp to a point where the bass is tailing off but it shows what these amps do with a 2ohms load.

[wettou]

Nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=131WD97IOLk&feature=related

[DM3000 Owner]

I can not find the figures on the 4bsst anymore but if you look up the measurements on the 4bst on stereophile you will see pretty much the same results. As a matter of fact if you look up the 28bsst you will be surprised at its 2ohms measurement. My evo 400 puts out more output into 2omhs than there 1000 watt amp. Not that you would have to push a 1000w amp to a point where the bass is tailing off but it shows what these amps do with a 2ohms load.

If you read my earlier posts you should not be surprised at all. From the Stereophile review, the new amp is wired in series and therefore delivers less power into 2 ohms:

"As in Bryston's other monoblock designs, the 28B-SST's output stage combines two amplifiers permanently bridged in series and operated out of phase with one another. This allows the amplifier to swing high voltages into the load."

Here is an excerpt from the 6moons review:

"Pop the hood and you'll find two balanced amplifiers operating in series. In the old days, this is how the 7B-ST was constructed too - as two balanced amplifiers. But you had the option of series or parallel operation. In parallel, the 7B-ST could drive extremely demanding loads while on less demanding speakers, most thought that it sounded better configured in series. The 28B-SST doesn't offer this option (nor does the modern 7B-SST) and is strapped for series configuration. Loads shouldn't fall below a nominal 4 ohms though in practice, most such speakers and many rated higher will fall below -- sometimes well below -- the 4-ohm figure. This shouldn't be a problem however since the 28B-SST is claimed stable into 2 ohms."

This is not true, at least for the 7B SST. You have the option of either series or parallel when you buy the amp. Here it is directly from Bryston's website:

http://bryston.com/7bsst_m.html

"Mission Impossible:


The 7B SST is a MONO block design capable of over 600 watts at 8 ohms and over 900 watts at 4 ohms. This gives the 7B ST the power to drive, with breath-taking ease and clarity, speakers, which have been considered "impossible" loads in the past. One advantage of the Mono design 7B SST is it allows you to place the amplifier adjacent to the loudspeaker providing improved performance. The 7B SST is available in either a Series or Parallel version. 'Series' is recommended with loudspeaker loads above 3 ohms and 'Parallel' for loudspeaker loads below 3 ohms."


If looking for a Bryston amp with a low impedence speaker, I'd suggest the 7B ST's that have the option of series or parallel. My B&W's didn't seem to care which setting I used but I did not push them that hard.

[wettou]

Emotiva monoblocks anyone tried with B&W 802D?

http://www.emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm