Valve/Tube amps & B&W

[altanpsx]

Lately I am toying with the idea of dirving my B&W's with a tube amp.....

Yes B&W's are power hungry, we need to feed them, but tube amps are different, some of us like it, some of us not. They do not have the power advantge of solidstate amps ,but they are nice(for me at least)

Any of you drive B&W's with a tube amp? Which amp's wouldu you recomend?

[MikeFL52]

Lately I am toying with the idea of dirving my B&W's with a tube amp.....

Yes B&W's are power hungry, we need to feed them, but tube amps are different, some of us like it, some of us not. They do not have the power advantge of solidstate amps ,but they are nice(for me at least)

Any of you drive B&W's with a tube amp? Which amp's wouldu you recomend?

I do not drive mine (803D/HTM3S/DS8S) with a tube amp, but when I auditioned the 803Ds and 802Ds I also listened to the with the Macintosh 875 and it was really sweet sounding, better than the Macintosh monoblocks that they were also using.

They are only 75W per channel (2 channels) but they had absolutely no problem driving the B&Ws. They are however about $4500 and so they should sound good.

I have sometimes thought about seeing if I could find some of the older Quad tube amps (second hand) and seeing how they would sound.

[altanpsx]

It has to be mc-275 75w per channel, in mono use 150w. I really like to hear them. I think you had not listened in mono mode.

[MikeFL52]

You are correct 275s and yes I only heard them in stereo mode and they were still very sweet!!

[DM3000 Owner]

Lately I am toying with the idea of dirving my B&W's with a tube amp.....

Yes B&W's are power hungry, we need to feed them, but tube amps are different, some of us like it, some of us not. They do not have the power advantge of solidstate amps ,but they are nice(for me at least)

Any of you drive B&W's with a tube amp? Which amp's wouldu you recomend?

A friend uses VTL 300 wpc monoblocks to drive his Theils, Ecoustat's and B&W M801's.

FWIW, he also has a pair of Classe CAM 350's. He prefers the Classe SS amps with the B&W's and the Tubes with the other speakers. He also has heard my S800's with Classe CAM350's and likes that combo.

The tube amps generate a lot of heat when drivign a current hungry speaker. .

[beden1]

A friend uses VTL 300 wpc monoblocks to drive his Theils, Ecoustat's and B&W M801's.

FWIW, he also has a pair of Classe CAM 350's. He prefers the Classe SS amps with the B&W's and the Tubes with the other speakers. He also has heard my S800's with Classe CAM350's and likes that combo.

The tube amps generate a lot of heat when drivign a current hungry speaker. .

I love my CAM 350s. The dynamics and clarity is awesome. :T

[peter clarke]

B&W 800D driven by VTL 7.5/ S-400 gives great slam in bass, perfection mids and highs, outperforming krell, electrocompaniet nemo,halcro,musical fidelity ss, plays to ear-bleeding levels if required

[Gremal]

I'm using VAC's Phi 110i to run my 802Ds. After hearing the synergy between the diamond gear and VAC, I can't live with anything else.

[SRT-10 Viper]

I run my 800Ds with Lamm M1.2s which are conservatively rated to deliver 110 Watts into 8 and 4 Ohms in pure class A operation. I replaced CAM 350s. The sound is incredible.

[sikoniko]

Definately consider BAT if you're going to consider tubes.

[Miyuki]

My grandfather use to have a tube amp, but in Japan we now use much smaller circuits called transistors to do the same.

[wettou]

How different is the sound with tube vs regular class A/B design? Does it sound better with tube I would consider it plus they look cool:B

[peter clarke]

tube v. ss

Wettou, I believe this question will always remain undecided, up to personal taste and the music one listens to, however female vocals to me sound warmer and lifelike to me on tubes and with VTL you also have massive power for those dynamic swings which ss is renowned for i.e. this tube combination has all for me from artists like patricia barber right thru to well produced rock AC/DC e.g. ' black ice', no listening fatigue!!!

[Gremal]

I think the question is no longer about tubes vs transistors but about the manufacturer that designs their products to eliminate all grounding/electricity issues that could muddy the sound, and voices the amp with different, potentially optimal caps/resistors/etc to find the combination that performs best.

I've never found any company better at this than VAC. Their amps will never measure better than the competition but they consistently sound better, and that's what it's all about.

By the way, these comments about tube amps sounding "warmer" or less detailed really are not accurate. I like very analytical, forward, detailed, open sound (that's why I chose my speakers) and there is nothing "warm" in a well-designed high-end tube amp except the heat given off by the tubes themselves. The sound is more clinical and cold than the average high end transistor stuff. A number of years ago, this was borne out in a blind listening test Sound and Vision arranged between--I believe--a VAC amp and a more expensive transistor amp (could have been Classe or Pass).

[wettou]

By the way, these comments about tube amps sounding "warmer" or less detailed really are not accurate. I like very analytical, forward, detailed, open sound (that's why I chose my speakers) and there is nothing "warm" in a well-designed high-end tube amp except the heat given off by the tubes themselves. The sound is more clinical and cold than the average high end transistor stuff. A number of years ago, this was borne out in a blind listening test Sound and Vision arranged between--I believe--a VAC amp and a more expensive transistor amp (could have been Classe or Pass).

VAC is a lot more expensive than Classé?

[Gremal]

I believe it was a VAC Renaissance 70/70 going up against a significantly more expensive solid state rig.

Granted, VAC's top of the line Phi stuff costs a lot more. The Phi integrated amp lists for $19,000.

[number95]

ARC Reference 610T

I use my N800 speakers with Audio Research Ref 610T monos, each having 600 watts. I have not yet felt a weakness in dynamic range. I also previously tried some SS amps like Krell, Halcro but did not enjoy the outputs.

[Orb]

You might also consider going the route of a tube pre-amp combined with a good solid state amp.
The results can be very good.

A very good example of a tube pre is the Modwright 36.5.

Cheers
Orb

[number95]

You might also consider going the route of a tube pre-amp combined with a good solid state amp.
The results can be very good.

A very good example of a tube pre is the Modwright 36.5.

Cheers
Orb

I tried some SS amps with my ARC Ref-3 preamp but could not achieve good results. Of course this is my experience, I also heard some good combinations of tube preamp/ SS power.

[Gremal]

Yes, if one hears the advantages of tubes it is silly to use a tubed preamp or disc machine with a solid state amp. What's the point? To me the entire advantage lies in the power amplification of well-designed tube gear.

[Orb]

Yes, if one hears the advantages of tubes it is silly to use a tubed preamp or disc machine with a solid state amp. What's the point? To me the entire advantage lies in the power amplification of well-designed tube gear.

That is a good point.
But it is worth remembering what we prefer is not always identical.
Anyway, it is worth following what was inputted in a thread on AVSforum if really interested -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1019640

There are a few in there that are real tube fans (to the extent of trying different tubes in the pre/amps), and they ended up going the route of a tube pre combined with a good solid state amp.

The point of combining a solid state amp with a tube pre is that it gives the strength of both solutions, and done with the right gear with no weaknesses.

I tried tube pre/ss amp combos and hybrid integrateds, the only items I found that fitted me better were very expensive Chord Electronics pre-pwr amp.
But each to their own I agree, but if you never heard the combination I would strongly suggest trying.

Cheers
Orb

[Gremal]

Yes, many solid state guys go with the tubed pre to try to get the "warmth" of tubes (another concept I find silly as great tubed gear can be as cold and clinical sounding as the most analytical solid state amps--which are few and far between). It also gives those solid state guys the chance to try tube rolling as you point out. There are all kinds of differences that are noteworthy, from Russian to Chinese to NOS tubes and then of course cryo'ed tubes, and doohickeys to minimize vibration of the glass, etc. Again, if they really want to get into it and see how amazing the game of tube rolling can be, they should be exploring amplification, not just preamps.

I should really shut up, though, because I not only see tubed preamps mated with solid state amps as silly but any two-channel preamp as silly. It just adds another box and pair of connectors that no matter how well designed necessitates another step to compromise the signal. I long ago went with an integrated amp that houses a tube preamp stage and tube amp in one chassis.

[joetama]

My grandfather use to have a tube amp, but in Japan we now use much smaller circuits called transistors to do the same.

I laughed... But, I think the debate might be more distorted than one might think.

[Orb]

Yes, many solid state guys go with the tubed pre to try to get the "warmth" of tubes (another concept I find silly as great tubed gear can be as cold and clinical sounding as the most analytical solid state amps--which are few and far between). It also gives those solid state guys the chance to try tube rolling as you point out. There are all kinds of differences that are noteworthy, from Russian to Chinese to NOS tubes and then of course cryo'ed tubes, and doohickeys to minimize vibration of the glass, etc. Again, if they really want to get into it and see how amazing the game of tube rolling can be, they should be exploring amplification, not just preamps.

I should really shut up, though, because I not only see tubed preamps mated with solid state amps as silly but any two-channel preamp as silly. It just adds another box and pair of connectors that no matter how well designed necessitates another step to compromise the signal. I long ago went with an integrated amp that houses a tube preamp stage and tube amp in one chassis.

Your definitely right about some audio fans, and no need to be quiet on this subject as everyone has an experience that is worth contributing.
There are a few on that link who were always fans of tube amps, but after extensive trials (of tube amps and various combos) they switched to the hybrid type combo out of preference, and like me were not looking for the warmth or high THD that I agree some automatically associate with tubes.

One good thing with the Modwright that a few other preamps do, it has a bypass for home theatre so can manage 2-channel while surround is done by a processor.
But as you say there are also quite a few integrateds worth listening to; whether full tube orientated or hybrid.

That is the joy of audio, the diversity of what we love when it comes to audio hardware and the presentation of music

For the original poster, I may be wrong but the rating of a tube amp does not exactly match that of a solid state, the tube amp is more comparable to a higher rated solid state in terms of watts and current, some of this is to do with amp characteristics.

Hope everyone had a good week.
Orb