Upgrading my paradigms.

[ICEMAN70]

Hi guy's

I have Paradigm studio 100's V3 that are 2 years old now. I bought the 100's to replace my studio 60's in the fronts. The 60's are in the rears now. Also there is a servo 15 v2 in the setup. These are running from my Rotel RMB 1095. Anyways my wife has changed the room around and wants wood finish speakers. Since i always been a fan of B&W speaker i went to Audition couple on the weekend.

The two i was looking where the B&W 803's and the 804's. Both speakers had the fit and finish we wanted for the bonus room. Quality was second to none. The midrange on these speakers are great. I found the 803's had more bass and filled the room better.

The question is, since i have a good sub with servo 15 v2, do i need to go with the 803's or would the 804's be enough. We are about 60% movies and 40% music. I know there are the 805's but my wife wants floor stand speakers.

I love my studio 100's and it will be missed. They where sold to my In-laws. So, would you guy's consider the 804's a good upgrade from the studio 100's?

The dealer is giving the 804's for $4500 canadian including taxes. The 803's are almost $7000.


any info would be great.

cheers,

[ICEMAN70]

Just to mention again, the whole system is sold to my In-laws except for the servo sub. They will be picking this stuff up in couple weeks from my house. So i still have some time to audition more speakers.

I will be also looking at Sonus Faber, Focal, martin logans and Signature S6 from paradigm.

cheers,

[Mig17]

If I were you, I would had bought rotel 1098 firslt before selling paradigm

[GregLett]

Since you like the paradigm sound I would go for the s6 or s8. Listen to the sigs before you go for the. B&w.

[ICEMAN70]

Since you like the paradigm sound I would go for the s6 or s8. Listen to the sigs before you go for the. B&w.

Hi greg,

Have you listened to the signatures from paradigm? I am trying to find a dealer that carries them here so that i can audition them. My dealer that sold me the studios has only the Studio reference series on the floor, but can get the S6 and the S8 in for me. How is the sound of the sigs compared to the B&W's?

thanks,

[GregLett]

Yep. I owned the S2 and loved it. I have Listened to both the S6 and the S8, but spent more time with the S6. The only thing that stopped me from owning them at the time was the cost.

As for how the sound compares, the final decision would have to be yours.
I have not been able to compare the two in the same room on the same electronics so it's difficult to say which I would have picked in a side by side
audition, but from what I heard I would pick the Paradigm S6 over the B&W 804.
I have not listened to the new B&W speakers (except the XT4 which I owned)
so I can't say how the new lineup would stack up against the sigs.

Hi greg,

Have you listened to the signatures from paradigm? I am trying to find a dealer that carries them here so that i can audition them. My dealer that sold me the studios has only the Studio reference series on the floor, but can get the S6 and the S8 in for me. How is the sound of the sigs compared to the B&W's?

thanks,

[NMG]

I haven't listened to the 804's in quite some time, but when I upgraded from my old Studio 80's, I chose 703's over the Studio 100's after auditioning them side by side. I think these two get compared quite a bit and it probably comes down to preference. That being said, I suspect the 804's are another step up from the 703's so I would imagine they would be an improvement over the 100's.

Given the amount you are spending, I also think you should listen to the sigs and others in that price range. It won't hurt and it could be a heck of allot of fun

[Briz vegas]

Yep. I owned the S2 and loved it. I have Listened to both the S6 and the S8, but spent more time with the S6. The only thing that stopped me from owning them at the time was the cost.

As for how the sound compares, the final decision would have to be yours.
I have not been able to compare the two in the same room on the same electronics so it's difficult to say which I would have picked in a side by side
audition, but from what I heard I would pick the Paradigm S6 over the B&W 804.
I have not listened to the new B&W speakers (except the XT4 which I owned)
so I can't say how the new lineup would stack up against the sigs.

Hmmm, so Greg what brand of speaker do you sell and what brand don't you sell?

How can you say you would pick the S6 over speakers you say you have not heard?

Almost every dealer on the planet says things like that, its understandable but it really really annoys me.

Why not just say that if you are looking at 804s then you really must hear the S6 before you make your final choice.

Ah, finally after 10 annoying car dealers and a similar number of hifi dealers I have that off my chest. :T

Disclosure. I own 804s and I have not heard the S6

[GregLett]

Hmmm, so Greg what brand of speaker do you sell and what brand don't you sell?

How can you say you would pick the S6 over speakers you say you have not heard?

Almost every dealer on the planet says things like that, its understandable
but it really really annoys me.

Why not just say that if you are looking at 804s then you really must hear the S6 before you make your final choice.

Ah, finally after 10 annoying car dealers and a similar number of hifi dealers I have that off my chest. :T

Disclosure. I own 804s and I have not heard the S6

I sell Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Polk audio and many more. mostly HT stuff.



Read carefully. I said I would pick it over the 804, but could not comment on the new lineup.



Almost every dealer on the planet says things like that, its understandable but it really really annoys me.

Things like what? Just because I sell audio now, don't lump me in with other dealers, you have never dealt with me. That annoys me.


I was given my personal opinion on what I heard, and I don't sell any of the brands that are discussed in this thread.


Why not just say that if you are looking at 804s then you really must hear the S6 before you make your final choice.

Now you want to tell me how to word my statements?

[GregLett]

:M For the record I don't tell anyone what to buy. I know that I am a dealer an when I say things some folks might think I'm trying to push what I sell. Before you go down that road, try dealing with me first, and also find out what lines I carry.

I carry non of the lines discussed in this thread, so no sales angle here! I was giving the poster my personal observations on what I heard.

[beden1]

:M For the record I don't tell anyone what to buy. I know that I am a dealer an when I say things some folks might think I'm trying to push what I sell. Before you go down that road, try dealing with me first, and also find out what lines I carry.

I carry non of the lines discussed in this thread, so no sales angle here! I was giving the poster my personal observations on what I heard.

Greg,

I think I read somewhere that Denon is coming out with a replacement for their AVP-A1HDCI? What are they improving, or features are they adding? What happens for the current owners of the AVP-A1HDCI? Are there any upgrade options for them through firmware, etc.?

I've been looking for a new SSP, and was interested in the Denon. Also, I don't have any Denon dealers close to me except for the likes of Circuit City who don't even carry this model? Are you able to sell to someone located in Florida?

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.

Thank You

[GregLett]

Greg,

I think I read somewhere that Denon is coming out with a replacement for their AVP-A1HDCI? What are they improving, or features are they adding? What happens for the current owners of the AVP-A1HDCI? Are there any upgrade options for them through firmware, etc.?

I've been looking for a new SSP, and was interested in the Denon. Also, I don't have any Denon dealers close to me except for the likes of Circuit City who don't even carry this model? Are you able to sell to someone located in Florida?

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.

Thank You

I'll PM you.

[ICEMAN70]

Greg, i see you guy's sell Monitor audio. I will be auditioning the GS60 tommorow at a local dealer.. Can you PM a cost of the 60's you guy's have compared to the price here in canada. I read really good reviews on these speakers.



thanks

[Horacio]

Iceman,

A while back a fiend of mine had Studio 60s while I had B&W CM4, both of us doing only stereo, and both of us with Rotel RB1080 amp + RC1070 pre. Later I upgraded mine to the 804s and he followed suit and got 804s for himself (he didn't do his homework and bought them because I did). I noticed a significant improvement from CM4 to 804s with the RB1080. He, on the other hand, didn't think there was that big of a difference between the 804s and the studio 60. Maybe it was his ears, or taste.

My two cents.

Horacio

[Alaric]

Iceman,

A while back a fiend of mine had Studio 60s while I had B&W CM4, both of us doing only stereo, and both of us with Rotel RB1080 amp + RC1070 pre. Later I upgraded mine to the 804s and he followed suit and got 804s for himself (he didn't do his homework and bought them because I did). I noticed a significant improvement from CM4 to 804s with the RB1080. He, on the other hand, didn't think there was that big of a difference between the 804s and the studio 60. Maybe it was his ears, or taste.

My two cents.

Horacio

I haven't had the opportunity to hear many B&Ws , but am very pleased with my Studio 60s (v3). For the money spent , I haven't heard better. I haven't heard all the speakers available , but I'm pretty happy with 'em. The Sigs I've heard were great speakers as well , but that's a whole 'nother price range. Competition gets a little stiffer up there. I actually prefer the S8 over Revel Salon , even with the S8's limited soundstage (in comparison). My $.02

[bigburner]

I listen to a lot of music with a friend who has Studio 60 speakers. Comparing them to my B&W CDM9NT speakers (same as the 703) both have their strengths and weaknesses. In my opinion the midrange on the 9NT is superior. This is obvious to me when listening to vocals, guitar, piano, sax etc. The bass on the 60 is more prominent than the 9NT (or perhaps the 9NT is bass shy)? Either way I consider the 60 to be superior in that department for the types of music that I listen to. The tweeter on the 9NT is brighter than the 60. This can be good or bad depending on the mastering of the recorded material.

Nigel.

[Briz vegas]

Read carefully. I said I would pick it over the 804, but could not comment on the new lineup.

.............Just because I sell audio now, don't lump me in with other dealers, you have never dealt with me. That annoys me.


.............I was given my personal opinion on what I heard, and I don't sell any of the brands that are discussed in this thread.

Now you want to tell me how to word my statements?

Greg
I had been following your thread in the 2 channel section of this forum and got it into my head that you sold Paradigm because it was discussed there (on checking it turns out it was merely someones suggestion that you sell them) and because you seemed very familiar with them.

I can now see that my assumption was wrong so I started off on the wrong foot.

804 could be N804 or 804s or both.

Regarding my suggested wording, I was using that statement to clarify the point I was trying to make. I now know that you are not trying to push a product that you sell, however my wish that dealers generally refrained from making unsubstantiated claims remains.

Your posts make it clear that you are now a hifi dealer (and I hope your new business goes well for you. I think it is sad to see so many dealers closing recently). Rightly or wrongly your "dealer" status will alter the way that people read your posts.

[Briz vegas]

Greg, i see you guy's sell Monitor audio. I will be auditioning the GS60 tommorow at a local dealer.. Can you PM a cost of the 60's you guy's have compared to the price here in canada. I read really good reviews on these speakers.



thanks

And just to I alienate someone else....................(not my intention)

This must be a constant source of frustration for hifi dealers, or any "bricks and mortar" retailers. People will always want the best price, in some countries it seems almost insulting not to haggle, but it is really difficult for someone to make a dollar when they have overheads from a shop or showroom, but when people eventually pull out their wallet to buy they get online and buy from another country or a guy with a PC.

A monopoly is a bad thing, but so is a totally free market - it will mean that there will be no showrooms to allow people to hear what good audio sounds like.

[GregLett]

Greg
I had been following your thread in the 2 channel section of this forum and got it into my head that you sold Paradigm because it was discussed there (on checking it turns out it was merely someones suggestion that you sell them) and because you seemed very familiar with them.

I can now see that my assumption was wrong so I started off on the wrong foot.

804 could be N804 or 804s or both.

Regarding my suggested wording, I was using that statement to clarify the point I was trying to make. I now know that you are not trying to push a product that you sell, however my wish that dealers generally refrained from making unsubstantiated claims remains.

Your posts make it clear that you are now a hifi dealer (and I hope your new business goes well for you. I think it is sad to see so many dealers closing recently). Rightly or wrongly your "dealer" status will alter the way that people read your posts.

Understood. I also don't like dealers that make unsubstantiated claims.
I started this business because I wanted to be a different dealer one that
did not push products down consumers throat. Since starting this business I now understand what some retailers are the way they are.

[GregLett]

And just to I alienate someone else....................(not my intention)

This must be a constant source of frustration for hifi dealers, or any "bricks and mortar" retailers. People will always want the best price, in some countries it seems almost insulting not to haggle, but it is really difficult for someone to make a dollar when they have overheads from a shop or showroom, but when people eventually pull out their wallet to buy they get online and buy from another country or a guy with a PC.

A monopoly is a bad thing, but so is a totally free market - it will mean that there will be no showrooms to allow people to hear what good audio sounds like.

The net has changed the way business is done these days like it or not.
Forget the guy with the PC, the big online retailers like Crutchfield and Audio Advisor are putting a dent in the brick and mortar guys.

[Mig17]

Paradigm have good ballance between music and movies
Studio 100 series are very good lines of speakers
Invest more on electonics and cables that the way I would go ahead !

PS: your rotel 1057+1075 has very limited in SQ

[wgriel]

My own opinion is that the 804 is a substantial upgrade over the Studio 100s, but that's just me. I happen to like the B&W sound more than the Paradigm (I don't mind Paradigm, and I've got an entry level Paradigm home theater).

As to the original question I can really only speculate, but I'd think that 804 + your very capable sub will be pretty close to the 803 + sub. In fact, given the amplification you've got the 804 might just be the more sensible way to go.

[GregLett]

My own opinion is that the 804 is a substantial upgrade over the Studio 100s, but that's just me. I happen to like the B&W sound more than the Paradigm (I don't mind Paradigm, and I've got an entry level Paradigm home theater).

Have you ever auditioned the Paradigm Signature series?

[wgriel]

Have you ever auditioned the Paradigm Signature series?

You've got me there - I've only heard the entry level through to the studio series. The Signature series could very well be a winner and for all I know I might prefer models in the Signature series to the B&W 800 series.

Unfortunately it does seem to be a bit difficult to find dealers that carry the Signatures.

[GregLett]

You've got me there - I've only heard the entry level through to the studio series. The Signature series could very well be a winner and for all I know I might prefer models in the Signature series to the B&W 800 series.

Unfortunately it does seem to be a bit difficult to find dealers that carry the Signatures.

It's true finding the sigs can be a challenge at times. That has to do with the way Paradigm does business. Even here in NY I had a difficult time finding the S8.

[ICEMAN70]

Hi guy's

Just an update. I am still auditioning more speakers. I am also in the process of upgrading my rotel equipment to Classe SSP 800 and the CA 5200. The dealer is giving me 10% off classe. I am trying to move them more on the price. Will see what happens.

The monitor audio GS60 that i auditioned also sounded very good. Very fast speakers, with fast moving music they sound awesome. The finish on it is much better than the B&W's. The Mid range on the B&W still impresses me though, and the sound stage is better on the B&W's.

So far me and the wife are leaning more towards the B&W 803S with Classe SSP 800 and the CA 5200. If the deal is good from the dealer than i might pull the trigger.


cheers,

[GregLett]

Hi guy's

Just an update. I am still auditioning more speakers. I am also in the process of upgrading my rotel equipment to Classe SSP 800 and the CA 5200. The dealer is giving me 10% off classe. I am trying to move them more on the price. Will see what happens.

The monitor audio GS60 that i auditioned also sounded very good. Very fast speakers, with fast moving music they sound awesome. The finish on it is much better than the B&W's. The Mid range on the B&W still impresses me though, and the sound stage is better on the B&W's.

So far me and the wife are leaning more towards the B&W 803S with Classe SSP 800 and the CA 5200. If the deal is good from the dealer than i might pull the trigger.


cheers,

Cant argue with that! That's one hell of an upgrade :T As long as you are satisfied.

[ICEMAN70]

UPDATE:

Pulled the trigger today. Put in a deposit for the Paradigm Signature S6 in piano black with the Signature C5 center channel. The sound for me on the paradigm sigs where much better than the 803S for home theatre. Since this will be 60% HT use i got the sigs. The speakers will be here in 7 - 10 days.

Also put in a order for the classe SSP 800 with the CA 5200. These will be replacing my rotel setup.

Pictures will follow soon as i get them.

cheers,

[GregLett]

Excellent glad you were happy with the sigs.

[ICEMAN70]

Hi guy's

Just picked up the S6's tonight. Still waiting for the C5 and the classe equipment to come in. So wanted to share some pictures with you guy's. They are just awesome so far. I am letting them brake in and will post more pic's.

cheers,

[GregLett]

Looks great! Love the rack also :T