800Ds with 2 JL Audio F113s speake size settings?

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  • SRT-10 Viper
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 253

    800Ds with 2 JL Audio F113s speake size settings?

    I've installed 2 JL Audio F113 subs, I am reading a lot of internet articles on proper setup of subs. Most of the articles I read state to set the speakers as small in your HT processor and to allow the sub to work the bottom end. The point is this allows your speakers to do a better job on mids and high.

    How many with 800Ds are running subs and your speakers set to small? If you are running them small what cross over setting are you using that gets the best results?
  • Aussie Geoff
    Super Senior Member
    • Oct 2003
    • 1914

    #2
    Great question...

    This is a balance between the quality and current reserves of the amp you are using for the speakers versus the quality of the sub. Now the F113 are amazing subs... So you have a choice...

    40Hz will (for my ears) allow the sub to ad some reall bottom end fill... Less than that and you sort of loose the effect of the sub. That extra ambience in the bass area

    However at 40Hz there are some serious impedence / induction changes happening the the 800D which are 'demanding' on the amp.. So you can try 60Hz to take some pressure off the amp... And it still sounds great.

    I have even heard the 800D crossed over at 80Hz (the THX standard) and with quality subs (these were the B&W ones) sounded fantastic... And allowed the use of a 'lower power' amp (Classe 5200) which otherewise just died trying to drive the 800Ds without the sub...

    Now the JL113 have an extra feature, which is that they can help equalise out bass dips and troughs in the room. So that can be an extra reason to try 60 or 80Hz to give them a chance (after running the equalisaiton etc) to work their magic and flatten your room response.

    If I had two JL F113 I would put them right next to the 800Ds and run in stereo and try 40, 50 and 60Hz and 80Hz in the room to see... And I rather suspect I'd settle on 60 or 80 Hz to let their equalisaiton work its magic!

    Geoff

    Comment

    • beden1
      Super Senior Member
      • Oct 2006
      • 1676

      #3
      Originally posted by SRT-10 Viper
      I've installed 2 JL Audio F113 subs, I am reading a lot of internet articles on proper setup of subs. Most of the articles I read state to set the speakers as small in your HT processor and to allow the sub to work the bottom end. The point is this allows your speakers to do a better job on mids and high.

      How many with 800Ds are running subs and your speakers set to small? If you are running them small what cross over setting are you using that gets the best results?
      I have played around with this a lot, both in positioning the subs and the cross over settings. In both of my setups (one has B&W 803Ds and the other has A/D/S 910 full range studio monitors/equivalent in size to 800Ds), I have set the main speakers to large, and the cross over to 50Hz.

      As I said before, I've found the best position for the twin subs is to the inside of each main speaker.

      When setting these main speakers to small, and using a cross over at 80Hz, initially, the sound seems more exciting and the subs sound very dynamic. Your first impression is "WoW" . . . those articles I've read were correct.

      But, the more you listen at this setting, the more you'll find that there is no integration between the main speakers and the subs. I started focusing on the fact that there were two speakers doing two different tasks, the main speaker doing the mids/highs, and the subs doing the bass tones. They didn't blend together.

      When setting the main speakers to large, and the subs to 50Hz, the speakers then seemed to become one, and sounded much more natural together. My subs virtually disappeared and served to do what I think they should do best, in filling in the lowest ranges on the scale.

      Comment

      • SRT-10 Viper
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2005
        • 253

        #4
        Thanks guys, beden1, I want to make sure I understand what you are doing. So you are running your main speakers (Fronts & Center) in full mode (Large) and asking the sub to work from it's low to 50HZ. Correct? I plan to try various appraoches this weekend and will let you know how it comes out. I currently have the 2 F113s, as you mention, to the indside of my 800Ds.

        Comment

        • beden1
          Super Senior Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 1676

          #5
          Originally posted by SRT-10 Viper
          Thanks guys, beden1, I want to make sure I understand what you are doing. So you are running your main speakers (Fronts & Center) in full mode (Large) and asking the sub to work from it's low to 50HZ. Correct? I plan to try various appraoches this weekend and will let you know how it comes out. I currently have the 2 F113s, as you mention, to the indside of my 800Ds.
          I'm setting the front R/L speakers to large, and the center channel to small. The surrounds are all set to small as well. The LFE is set to 50Hz.

          I feel I'm getting better dialogue clarity with the center channel speaker set to small.

          Good Luck!

          Comment

          • beden1
            Super Senior Member
            • Oct 2006
            • 1676

            #6
            Originally posted by beden1
            I'm setting the front R/L speakers to large, and the center channel to small. The surrounds are all set to small as well. The LFE is set to 50Hz.

            I feel I'm getting better dialogue clarity with the center channel speaker set to small.

            Good Luck!
            The other thing that I found in trying to integrate the two subs into the system and room, is to work with your sub volumes. Initially, I had the settings up to around 36 on the Velodynes. After over a year, I now have found them to integrate better at a volume setting on the one system at 26, and the other system at 28.

            I also initially thought that the actual room would mostly dictate the volume settings, but both of my rooms are very different in size and acoustics. I was actually surprised that my current volume settings for the subs are similar, even though they are mated to completely different speakers and in different rooms.

            Comment

            • wettou
              Ultra Senior Member
              • May 2006
              • 3389

              #7
              Originally posted by Aussie Geoff
              Great question... This is a balance between the quality and current reserves of the amp you are using for the speakers versus the quality of the sub. Now the F113 are amazing subs. I have even heard the 800D crossed over at 80Hz (the THX standard) and with quality subs (these were the B&W ones) sounded fantastic... And allowed the use of a 'lower power' amp (Classe 5200) which otherewise just died trying to drive the 800Ds without the sub...

              Now the JL113 have an extra feature, which is that they can help equalize out bass dips and troughs in the room. So that can be an extra reason to try 60 or 80Hz to give them a chance (after running the equalization etc) to work their magic and flatten your room response.

              If I had two JL F113 I would put them right next to the 800Ds and run in stereo and try 40, 50 and 60Hz and 80Hz in the room to see... And I rather suspect I'd settle on 60 or 80 Hz to let their equalization work its magic! Geoff
              Yes, I could not agree more, I have set up all my speakers three 802D (R,C,L) and two 802N (RS, LS) to small and crossed over at 80HZ the JL Audio Fathom F113 is doing wonders. This also allow my CA-5200 not to be working so hard but it still gets very warm after a good action movie :lol:

              I agree JL Audio F113 equalization is fantastic. I am wondering if I should get a second sub, but first I need to replace my pre/pro? Looking at the SSP800 or Integra DTC 9.9
              Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

              Comment

              • sikoniko
                Super Senior Member
                • Aug 2003
                • 2299

                #8
                I'm not familiar with your pre/pro, so let me tell you what I have done. This is subject to change, as I just received my SSP-800.

                I am currently using a Krell Showcase. It only has 1 output for subs. I used that output to extend to the subs, at which point I 'Y' off to individual cables for each sub. I unplugged one sub and calibrated the sub to my ref point via the volume knob on the sub itself. I then unplugged this cable and did the other sub to the same level. Then I plugged both subs in and used the system to calibrate the pair (which were now of equal levels) with the rest of the system. I found about a 4db difference between the individual subs and the pair.

                Both of my subs are inside of the L/R speakers. See pic:


                I have built a platform to raise my center and subs off the ground. The platform is filled with a combination of sand and insulation. I also found it necessary to spike the subs, which I used the soundcare superspikes. (I know that isnt what you asked, but so there doesn't need to be any questions about it). I also used U boats to "float" my stage off the floor.

                I only have N802s, but I cross mine over at 80(THX).

                This will change with my new SSP-800, as it has independent inputs for each sub.
                Attached Files
                I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                Comment

                • wettou
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • May 2006
                  • 3389

                  #9
                  Originally posted by sikoniko
                  I'm not familiar with your pre/pro, so let me tell you what I have done. This is subject to change, as I just received my SSP-800.

                  I have built a platform to raise my center and subs off the ground. The platform is filled with a combination of sand and insulation. I also found it necessary to spike the subs, which I used the soundcare superspikes. (I know that isnt what you asked, but so there doesn't need to be any questions about it). I also used U boats to "float" my stage off the floor.

                  I only have N802s, but I cross mine over at 80(THX). This will change with my new SSP-800, as it has independent inputs for each sub.
                  Cool, the platform looks unfinished is it new?
                  Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                  Comment

                  • sikoniko
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 2299

                    #10
                    Originally posted by wettou
                    Cool, the platform looks unfinished is it new?
                    Yes, I have some tile work to do in another part of the room before I can carpet. It is still in its 'raw' form at this time.
                    I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                    Comment

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