Took the 800D Plunge, Official 800D member !

[Allegiance]

Good for you. I would also like to think that a Honda Civic handle's like a Maserati GranTurismo.

I am not sure about Maserati, but some of the early Ferrari's/Lamborghini were a dog of a car to drive. :B I would love a Ferrari Maranello or Lamborghini Murcielago though :P

[misterdoggy]

I am not sure about Maserati, but some of the early Ferrari's/Lamborghini were a dog of a car to drive. :B I would love a Ferrari Maranello or Lamborghini Murcielago though :P

I actually owned a 250 GTS Ferrari California spyder 1959 long wheelbase model with covered headlights, one of only 11 in this variation. I owned it in the late 1970's and it drove like a truck and broke down a lot. Also owned a Lamborghini Muira S which would hydroplane when it rained and was the most dangerous car I've ever owned.

A Honda Civic would have been welcome when these cars broke down and I was standing at the side of the road waiting for a tow.. :T

But I must say I can hardly tear myself away from listening and looking at the 800D's.

They are not cars and the comparison is thin.

These are great. I can post temporary foto's but I think its worth the wait. I had another shelf built in 15mm glass 2170mm long and 550m wide to support the 1201's and htm1d on the same level, which is RIGHT under the screen moved up from the floor where it was before. ;x(

[misterdoggy]

Foto's BEFORE 1201's

Here's a foto of the system before 1201's arrive. The 2 bottom 501's that have lots of room above them are the slots for the 1201's to fit in.

[Race Car Driver]

:drool:


BTW, having the 800s in that pic really shows the monster size of that HTM1D ;x(

[beden1]

Great setup, really fantastic! Is there any room to move the 800Ds out from the walls, and away from your cabinet shelving a bit? You may improve the overall imaging and sound.

[misterdoggy]

Great setup, really fantastic! Is there any room to move the 800Ds out from the walls, and away from your cabinet shelving a bit? You may improve the overall imaging and sound.

They are away from the walls about 1m (3 feet) and imaging is perfect. With the sound coming from only the 800D's you would swear that ONLY the htm1d was playing.

I am lucky the sound in the room is great.

Also That the Meridian 861V4 Processor with Room Correction software has everything measured and adjusted to perfection. I can't imagine it being better, but I guess the 1201's will raise the bar

[beden1]

They are away from the walls about 1m (3 feet) and imaging is perfect. With the sound coming from only the 800D's you would swear that ONLY the htm1d was playing.

I am lucky the sound in the room is great.

Also That the Meridian 861V4 Processor with Room Correction software has everything measured and adjusted to perfection. I can't imagine it being better, but I guess the 1201's will raise the bar

I'm sure it sounds spectacular. The picture makes it look like the 800Ds are pretty close to the back wall. Three feet should be good.

[misterdoggy]

I'm sure it sounds spectacular. The picture makes it look like the 800Ds are pretty close to the back wall. Three feet should be good.

If you look to the right speaker you will see there is a glass door which is the distance the speaker is from the wall,

[RebelMan]

Why did you raise the center?

[misterdoggy]

Soundstage

the further the center speaker is from the screen the larger the soundstage

The closer the more it seems like the voice is coming directly out of the screen

[beden1]

Those 1201's are going to make the 800D's stand up and take notice!

I just wish my wife was as supportive of my hobby as yours has been. ;x(

[beden1]

Soundstage

the further the center speaker is from the screen the larger the soundstage

The closer the more it seems like the voice is coming directly out of the screen

I agree with this assessment. It's too bad that the TV's today don't have the size of my Pioneer Elite 58" HD rear projection TV that I have in PA. These enable you to place it on top of the TV cabinet, and when the speaker is angled downwards, it sounds as a center channel was intended to sound.

[Hallett]

Misterdoggy that is very nice how heavy are the McIntosh amps i am woried about
installing my ca-m400 on my glass shelving the glass is only 1/2 inch on my soundations rack just wondering how heavy your amps are .congrats on a beautiful system one of the best i have seen. :T

[RebelMan]

Soundstage

the further the center speaker is from the screen the larger the soundstage

The closer the more it seems like the voice is coming directly out of the screen

I am aware. However, there seems to be some inconsistancy between comments and actions and that puzzles me. I was looking for a practical explaination.

If this is true "I conclude from this that there is no difference in distance for either speaker to my ear height therefore not difference in sound." then there should be no need to change.

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=403305&postcount=21

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=406713&postcount=58

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=408592&postcount=110

[Race Car Driver]

I am aware. However, there seems to be some inconsistancy between comments and actions and that puzzles me. I was looking for a practical explaination.

If this were true "I conclude from this that there is no difference in distance for either speaker to my ear height therefore not difference in sound." then there should be no need to change.

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=403305&postcount=21

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=406713&postcount=58

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=110

I knew that was coming, I saw that as soon as I read your first question.

Gotta be stirring the pot huh?! :lol: :

Either way, I dont care what he does with them or why, either way I want to hear it!! 8)

[misterdoggy]

I am aware. However, there seems to be some inconsistancy between comments and actions and that puzzles me. I was looking for a practical explaination.

If this is true "I conclude from this that there is no difference in distance for either speaker to my ear height therefore not difference in sound." then there should be no need to change.

In the case that the speaker was too heavy to get "up" to the screen, angling up is a great solution for shooting the image up to the listener. It narrows the soundstage.

The BEST solution is having the center speaker as close to the screen as thats what you are trying to imitate with angling up from below.

so imho the choices in order are

1 best close to the screen

2 next best below but angling up

3 widest soundstage and image the further away and not angled up

[RebelMan]

I knew that was coming, I saw that as soon as I read your first question.

Gotta be stirring the pot huh?! :lol: :

Either way, I dont care what he does with them or why, either way I want to hear it!! 8)

You're not in the market for an HTM1D. :W

[RebelMan]

In the case that the speaker was too heavy to get "up" to the screen, angling up is a great solution for shooting the image up to the listener. It narrows the soundstage.

The BEST solution is having the center speaker as close to the screen as thats what you are trying to imitate with angling up from below.

so imho the choices in order are

1 best close to the screen

2 next best below but angling up

3 widest soundstage and image the further away and not angled up

If the screen was lowered would you still feel the need to raise the center?

[misterdoggy]

Misterdoggy that is very nice how heavy are the McIntosh amps i am woried about
installing my ca-m400 on my glass shelving the glass is only 1/2 inch on my soundations rack just wondering how heavy your amps are .congrats on a beautiful system one of the best i have seen. :T

I am very well informed in this area and if you want to put heavy amps on glass you need 12mm tempered glass or 15mm non tempered glass. The longer the stretch to the support posts the harder the work for the glass.

I have 125 kilos approx each Amp and no problema. If you look at my pic you will see the Amps are supported all around.

1/2 inch= approx 12mm so only if it is tempered or its risky business. It fortifies the glass. Otherwise you need to go to 15mm for heavy stuff.

[misterdoggy]

If the screen was lowered would you still feel the need to raise the center?

Same difference

its how close the screen and the speaker approach not the placement

[Hallett]

Thank's Misterdoggy mine are tempered about the same size as yours.
i was thinking of ordering 3/4 but it sounds like mine will be ok @ a
little over 90 pounds each.

[misterdoggy]

Glass is really strong

I've even seen long run "bow" under the pressure of weight

[Race Car Driver]

If the screen was lowered would you still feel the need to raise the center?

I guess I will toss in my two cents to this before I run and just watch. :lol:

Raising the center is the best option as it brings the tweeter/mid closer to the same relationship of the FL and FR. You know that, I know that.
(better than lowering the screen)

Anyways. Still love the setup

[misterdoggy]

I think where he was leading was that the screen is "pull down" screen......

Otherwise, yes the advice you give is the one that is the best imho as well

align all the speakers as close as possible to the same height which is hard to do when there is a screen in the middle

[dknightd]

FWIW, and kindoff off topic, but my first car was a 1963 alfa romeo guiletta spider volece. I bought it well used a year before I could get my drivers licence in 1975. It took a year to get that car roadworthy again. It was a fun car, but as mentioned you really need to have a spare car. That era of Italian sports cars still appeals to my visual likes. Sometimes I miss that car. Once I was told that Ferrari had something to do with its design; I don't know or care (but it does make it tie into the thread a little more).

But it had a crummy am radio with a tiny speaker, I don't think it could hold 2 800's, but it did hold my first tv. Ah the memories. I've sold lots of things over the years,
but I still regret selling that car - but I had no choice, my spare car needed new brakes, the alfa needed a new crankshaft - I could sell the alfa to buy new brakes, but could not sell the spare car for a new crank. At the time it was the only reasonable thing to do. BTW, that spare car was a 1968 mercury commuter wagon with tow package - can you say truck with a station wagon body?

It is funny how our first cars (and girls) bring back such fond memories. My first
speakers I do not remember at all. . .

[Gump]

Optimum screen height should also be part of the equation. But, space limitations always demand compromises.

Exquisite set up there Mr.D!

[RebelMan]

I guess I will toss in my two cents to this before I run and just watch. :lol:

Raising the center is the best option as it brings the tweeter/mid closer to the same relationship of the FL and FR. You know that, I know that.
(better than lowering the screen)

Anyways. Still love the setup

Yes, yes, I know, you know, we all know. The question is how far away from ideal are the boundaries acceptable? MadDawg originally raked the HTM1D center to align with the 802D which he claimed offered optimal imaging and soundstaging. Then the center speaker was raised, but the comments leading up to that point didn't indicate that it was necessary. It appeared from context that the level of seamless integration had been reached and that no further action would be required but it did. I wanted to know why?

As someone with a fixed display, my options are few. The HTM1D must rest on the floor. If MadDawg felt compelled enough to move the monster HTM1D (don't forget it is huge, heavy and must be immensely awkward to place in an enclosed shelf) then he must have felt equally disconcerted about the level of seamless integration. These modifications of opinion or practice are a big deal to someone about to consider the speaker for their own system.

[Russ L]

Thanks for the pic MD. Enjoy!

[beden1]

As someone with a fixed display, my options are few. The HTM1D must rest on the floor. If MadDawg felt compelled enough to move the monster HTM1D (don't forget it is huge, heavy and must be immensely awkward to place in an enclosed shelf) then he must have felt equally disconcerted about the level of seamless integration. These modifications of opinion or practice are a big deal to someone about to consider the speaker for their own system.

I looked at your pictures again, and you don't really have but one logical option, which is to put it on the floor like someone photo shopped for you. If you ate some wheaties, you could also lift it up and place it on your upper shelf and angle it down, but I'm not sure that buys you any more than apples versus apples.

Having the speaker above the display, IMO, helps disperse the sound more evenly for those who are not sitting, like if you're having a party, etc.

Your room also looks more open than "MadDawg's", and you may also be sitting further back than he. In your situation, placing this monster speaker on the floor, and angling it upwards should be an excellent way to go.

Every HTM1D that I've have seen displayed in dealer listening rooms have been placed on the floor (I've seen three of them displayed at different dealers). B&W also intended this speaker to be placed on the floor, and provided you with adjustable feet.

To quote the B&W web site:

"The HTM1D is specifically intended to be mounted on the floor, its low profile allowing a large projection screen to come within 600mm (2 ft) of the floor. Supplied with the system are four heavy-duty height-adjustable feet. This design allows up to 40mm (1.6 in) of vertical adjustment so that the speaker may be tilted back to face more towards the listeners. They have a case hardened spike at one end for carpeted floors, and a non-marking rubber pad on the other for more vulnerable surfaces."

[RebelMan]

IEvery HTM1D that I've have seen displayed in dealer listening rooms have been placed on the floor (I've seen three of them displayed at different dealers). B&W also intended this speaker to be placed on the floor, and provided you with adjustable feet.

To quote the B&W web site:

"The HTM1D is specifically intended to be mounted on the floor, its low profile allowing a large projection screen to come within 600mm (2 ft) of the floor. Supplied with the system are four heavy-duty height-adjustable feet. This design allows up to 40mm (1.6 in) of vertical adjustment so that the speaker may be tilted back to face more towards the listeners. They have a case hardened spike at one end for carpeted floors, and a non-marking rubber pad on the other for more vulnerable surfaces."

My situation differs from yours in that I have seen the HTM1D raised. Raking the center back, as I did with the HTM3S that I had, will help but will that be enough to fake it with a high caliber speaker like the HTM1D? By this I mean will I be fooled into thinking the dialog and L/R motion is coming directly from the screen as I am with a phantom center? (It wasn't with the HTM3S). At this level of expense I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect this but I have no way to confirm it either. A phantom center incurs it's fair share of problems but they come free of charge. I was fairly convinvced that I would be safe until MadDawg pulled a switcheroo.

[beden1]

It's a tough call with a considerable investment on the line. And, as you are very analytical and I'm sure anal retentive as I am, you may never be able to convince yourself that it is anything but a compromise.

If it were me, I would call B&W directly, and ask to speak to someone like one of their design engineers to discuss the situation directly with them. Since you have been a very good customer, you may also ask if there is any way to have an HTM1D delivered to your house through the dealer for an actual demo (particularly if your local dealer does not have one available for a demo).

When I was researching Velodyne subs and read about their Contractor Series, I called Velodyne directly and spoke to their lead designer of the CS project. My local dealer did not even know about these subs, and did not have any in stock. Velodyne offered to send them to the dealer for me to audition in my home. I had to pick them up at the dealer, and if I did not like them (the engineer felt I would love them), I was free to return them to the dealer.

The engineer was right, and I ended up buying pairs for each of my setups.

[Briz vegas]

I actually owned a 250 GTS Ferrari California spyder 1959 long wheelbase model with covered headlights, one of only 11 in this variation. I owned it in the late 1970's and it drove like a truck and broke down a lot.

(

OMG Mr Doggy is actually Cameron's dad (give or take a year or two on the Ferrari).

http://www.80s.com/saveferris/cast/250gt.html

So Doggy what actually happened to Cameron when the Ferrari plumeted off the showroom platform.

[misterdoggy]

FWIW, and kindoff off topic, but my first car was a 1963 alfa romeo guiletta spider volece.

This will blow your mind for a coincidence, but I had an Italian friend who drove his Alfa Romeo Guiletta Spyder to my house 3 weeks ago. He drove from Turin where he live and he went over the Alpes I think the San Bernardo Pass to come to me as he does not like to drive thru tunnels with it.

It is the SAME car his father gave him over 40 years ago new. In original condition, paint everything. It is a bit used as he hasn't kept it perfect, but he does keep it up now.

The reason the htm1d is mentioned in the quote with placement on the floor is that they expect someone who buys a huge homt theater speaker like that to most likely have a pull down screen.

Rather than under your 24 inch TV

[Allegiance]

Here's a foto of the system before 1201's arrive. The 2 bottom 501's that have lots of room above them are the slots for the 1201's to fit in.

Fantastic pics, I am jealous. :B

My only comment about the placement of things (and I could be totally wrong) Is that there isn't much ventalation for your two Meridian units at the bottom. And with glass just above them I would think that this would make them quite hot. Have you noticed this?

[misterdoggy]

Fantastic pics, I am jealous. :B

My only comment about the placement of things (and I could be totally wrong) Is that there isn't much ventalation for your two Meridian units at the bottom. And with glass just above them I would think that this would make them quite hot. Have you noticed this?

You can put 2 fingers between the top of the Meridian and the shelf. Adequate no problem and there are no ventilation on top of the Meridian's only behind anyhow.

Everything has been thought out, planned with diagrams, to the minute centimeter. Especially for the sake of wiring details, ventilation, open space around everything speakers and components as the sides front and back are all open with adequate space above each and every item.

The size of the shelves down to the mm. The shelf which the htm1d sits on is 5cm wider than the other long shelves to accomodate the speaker and the 1201's which are on their way.

If you look carefully you will see the top amps are on a shorter shelf.

Its all my design and had the glass cut at the locat glass cutter and just used apollo hifi tubes and plastic joints without which It could not work. I have plenty of extra tubes in the closet in case something changes :T

Actually it is about as close to being just in an open space as an open space for everything. There is lots of breathing space for the speaker. It is much less constrained that it looks in fotos

[ShadowZA]

An awesome and beautiful setup :T :B :T

[Russ L]

The reason the htm1d is mentioned in the quote with placement on the floor is that they expect someone who buys a huge homt theater speaker like that to most likely have a pull down screen.

Rather than under your 24 inch TV

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I thought center speaker stands were the best option? Call me crazy... Does Bowers and Wilkins make one large enough for the HTM1D? Is the speaker larger than an Alfa Romeo Guiletta Spyder? So many questions...

[Allegiance]

You can put 2 fingers between the top of the Meridian and the shelf. Adequate no problem and there are no ventilation on top of the Meridian's only behind anyhow.

Everything has been thought out, planned with diagrams, to the minute centimeter. Especially for the sake of wiring details, ventilation, open space around everything speakers and components as the sides front and back are all open with adequate space above each and every item.

The size of the shelves down to the mm. The shelf which the htm1d sits on is 5cm wider than the other long shelves to accomodate the speaker and the 1201's which are on their way.

If you look carefully you will see the top amps are on a shorter shelf.

Its all my design and had the glass cut at the locat glass cutter and just used apollo hifi tubes and plastic joints without which It could not work. I have plenty of extra tubes in the closet in case something changes :T

Actually it is about as close to being just in an open space as an open space for everything. There is lots of breathing space for the speaker. It is much less constrained that it looks in fotos

Wow I hope one day I can plan out my system that well. Now all you need is a PS3 for some Blu-Ray action and your complete. :T

[Allegiance]

Rather than under your 24 inch TV

I hope you mean 42inch :rofl:

[misterdoggy]

I hope you mean 42inch :rofl:

I was making a point ;h

Wow I hope one day I can plan out my system that well. Now all you need is a PS3 for some Blu-Ray action and your complete. :T

There is a PS3 and also a Sony BluRay player

[Allegiance]

I was making a point ;h




There is a PS3 and also a Sony BluRay player

I know :P How do you find the Sony Blu-Ray player as compared to the PS3?

[misterdoggy]

I listen to true hd which means no digital out for sound. I use 6 analog interconnects to the processor, which is the best sound you can get from bluray.

This is not offered from PS3 so I don't make the comparison. The image on the PS3 is outstanding and sound as well, but for movies I stick with the BP500 which I don't particularly care for, but its all thats offered in europe for the moment. When the Denon 3800 comes out I will switch to that.

[SRT-10 Viper]

MD, Good choice... I have the Denon 3800 attached to a Meridian G68 and the HD sound is incredible.

[misterdoggy]

MD, Good choice... I have the Denon 3800 attached to a Meridian G68 and the HD sound is incredible.

Do you find it slow loading ?

The Sony takes forever to startup , load and finally show a menu :conveyer:

[RebelMan]

Do you find it slow loading ?

The Sony takes forever to startup , load and finally show a menu :conveyer:

It's slow.