Full 802D Surround or 800D for Front L/R and 802Ds in the Back

[JKalman]

I'm slowly building up my surround setup and I'm trying to decide whether to go with 802Ds on the rear channels (I currently have 2 already) for the purpose of matching the sound for surround, or moving the 802Ds I have to the real channels and purchasing 800Ds for the front L/R channels. I plan on keeping this system for the next ten years or so if I decide to go with the full B&W surround setup (instead of trading them in for the Wilsons WP 8s if I like them) and putting a Ruby with a retracting screen in the front.

Any ideas on the matching of the sound between the 802Ds and the 800Ds vs. all 802Ds? Has anyone heard a system with 800Ds in the front and 802Ds in the rear? I'm going to call one of the dealers I buy my stuff from and see if they will set up their HT room with the 800Ds in the front and 802Ds in the rear so I can hear it for myself, but I am curious if anyone has already experimented, and if so, what they have found.

Another concern is the matching of the HTM1D with the 800Ds as opposed to the 802Ds, since it is the same components as an 802D, not an 800D. I have three kids and my wife as off axis listeners and we will all be on the same couch. So some of the kids/adults will be far off axis. My ceiling isn't high enough and I am too concerned with stereo sound to move the speakers closer to the front wall, so purchasing another 800D or 802D for the center channel wouldn't be prudent, i.e. I can't put a retractible screen that allows sound to pass through in front of the speakers because they are too far from the walls, and I can't put the screen behind a freestanding center speaker either since it will block the view. Also, a freestanding center channel would interfere with the stereo image, which is more important to me than surround sound.

Since I am concerned more with stereo, my interest in the 800D is higher than the all 802D setup, even though the 802Ds all around would match up perfectly for surround sound. I'm really curious if anyone thinks it will make a noticeable disparity in the sound field if I go with the 800Ds instead of all 802Ds, or if at this level price/quality it is so negligible that I should get the 800Ds for the improved stereo playback because the difference won't be apparent because the 800Ds and 802Ds share so much in common except the woofer drivers and cones.

Well, just putting my thoughts out there for any input. Thank you.

[Audiophiliac]

Just get the Wilsons.

I have heard a HT with 800s up front, HTM1 (the old one), and 802s in rear, and it was phenomenal! If your priority is stereo, get the 800s up front and the HTM1D for a center.

[SRT-10 Viper]

I have 800Ds in the front with HTM2D center and 802N (not D) for rears. The sound is great in 2 CH, HT and multi channel music. I find the front 800Ds integrate well with the HTM2D.

[caleb]

I have 800Ds in the front with HTM2D center and 802N (not D) for rears. The sound is great in 2 CH, HT and multi channel music. I find the front 800Ds integrate well with the HTM2D.

I am very interested in this setup viper.

It was my original plan to go for this.

I am however concerned that my Bryston 7Bsst monoblocs will not have enought power for the 800Ds, so I ordered the 802Ds - there is still time to change tho order though.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks
C

[RebelMan]

If you spent most of your time with multi-channel music sources like SACD's or DVD-A's I would consider a full suite of 802D's for the fronts, surrounds and center. Then when you decide to pass your time with movies you could position the center far enough behind the perforated screen (leaving the LR in place) and compensate time coherance and timbre' balance by adjusting the time delays, gain offsets and base managment settings in your DSP and buttress the system with two strategically placed subwoofers.

However, if two-channel stereo is your thing, then I would opt for the 800D's for the left and right and an 802D for the center (or you could choose a third 800D but that would probably be overkill) and move your existing 802D's to surround duties. Surrounds typically only receive about 15-20% (sometimes none at all) of the information from a movie soundtrack. So while you could designate them as LARGE in your DSP settings the benefits are miniscule in comparison to the LRC output. Unless of course you also enjoy a good sampling of multi-channel audio where the disparities between the front, center and rears will be more noticeable. I believe this combination would yield you the best stereo playback while making no sacrifices for HT.

[RebelMan]

I am however concerned that my Bryston 7Bsst monoblocs will not have enought power for the 800Ds, so I ordered the 802Ds - there is still time to change tho order though.

Caleb, if I may offer my input as well, the 7B-SST monoblock will have no problems driving those twin 10" drivers in the 800D. The 7B-SST may not have the current delivery that the CA-M400 has in driving lower impedence loads but it does deliver enough raw power to compensate for it. You'll be fine to get those 800D's if you decide to change your mind. :T


Viper, what are your room's LWH dimensions that you have your 800D's parked in and how far apart are they (from center to center)? My apologies if I asked this before. Thanks!

[SRT-10 Viper]

Caleb; I agree with RebelMan the 7B-SST should drve 800Ds fine. You'll love this set up for both multi-channel and HT.

[sikoniko]

you guys must have rather large rooms to accomodate these big speakers!

[JKalman]

My dimensions, except for some minor thin sheet rock irregularities to hide pipes, are 18.375' x 33.5' x 8'. I place the speakers with the 18' as the width and the 33.5 feet as the length. The speakers are at around 5' off the side walls and 8' off the front wall for minimal wall interaction with the sound based on the Cardas Golden Ratio speaker setup method. I sit about 9' back with the speakers toed in approximately 30 degrees.

I have 4" thick mineral fiber in the front corners and on the first order reflection points and the whole back wall is covered in full book shelves. I'm getting professional acoustic engineering consultation for the room to completely renovate it for the best sound possible ATM, so in around 6 months there will be a lot of changes to the room. The consultation is still in the room measurement phase. The mineral fiber is a cheap temporary solution until I start on the major renovations. It will likely take months until I can start the work on the room, during which time I will have to listen to music in my car and on my house Niles system.

It is plenty of room for a 5.1 surround setup with the 800D and 802D combination while still maintaining minimal wall/speaker interaction in stereo mode, though perhaps a little on one rear channel speaker unfortunately, but that isn't going to be a huge deal, I can find a way to work around it. It might not be much at all considering the wall it is going to be close to is one thin layer of sheet rock, the bass will most likely go right through it and bounce off the concrete which is part of the regular shape of the room. 8)

[PavelL]

The 7B-SST may not have the current delivery that the CA-M400 has in driving lower impedence loads

I've noticed that CA-M400's rated power consumption is only 480W. Is it really that powerful? Just what current is Ca-m400 capable of? 7B-SST will give 60A this I was told by James Tanner of Bryston. And the amps are stable into 1.5 Ohm loads... Please give me some info on Classe.

[JKalman]

If my room weren't irregular, i.e. if it were perfectly rectangular, I would just treat it myself, but it has a number of inconsistancies that I don't know what to do with. Room imbalances, like soffits on only one side along the whole length of the room, a long closet that has the underside of the staircase inside it, the other thin sheet rock closet that hides the house septic pipe (which is big and can't be rerouted easily), drop ceiling off of the soffit that might be replaced with a higher solid ceiling, a door in a possibly problematic place and other things like two layer sheet rock on two sides of the room that partition the room from the rest of the basement and one thin layer of sheet rock on the other two walls with concrete underneath plus a window that might need plugging. Then there is the concrete floor, which isn't too bad because it is covered completely in industrial carpet. :evil:

I wish I could just build the perfect space, but even if I take the partitions down and build a new room, the whole basement has problematic areas. I was originally going to build a separate smaller HT room in another area of the basement with smaller speakers once the kids were old enough not to need their playroom, but it doesn't make sense when I can turn my current area into one so easily. Besides, my wife said we can put in two bowling lanes instead when the kids are older. 8)

Unfortunately, even with replacing the drop ceiling with drywall, I will still only have around 8.5 feet of ceiling height. I would prefer 10, but I can't do anything about this... :cry:

[RNKC]

Whatever you do, remember that eventually one of HD-DVD / Blu-Ray will become the new format of choice for all of us. At that point, the HT standard will be either Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Digital True HD. Under HD-DVD / Blu-Ray both formats will be defined as 7.1. Both Dolby formats actually support more than 8 channels, but the media are both limited to 8.

Naturally this means that many of us will upgrade processors as we add 2 more (rear) speakers and a couple of channels of amplification as well. As you add / change speakers to your system Jeff, you may want to consider how you might add 2 more rears in the years to come.

[RebelMan]

I've noticed that CA-M400's rated power consumption is only 480W. Is it really that powerful? Just what current is Ca-m400 capable of? 7B-SST will give 60A this I was told by James Tanner of Bryston. And the amps are stable into 1.5 Ohm loads... Please give me some info on Classe.

The CA-M400's are rated for 400 watts into an nominal 8 ohm load and will deliver a linear doubling of output of 800 watts into an 4 ohm load. They are stable at 2 ohm loads and are rumored to deliver 1200 watts RMS power with 1.3 dB of dynamic headroom. The CA-M400 monoblocks are rated to deliver 90A of current to the speakers but they have been tested in the lab to deliver even more! 8O

[DeepEndX]

Before I purchased the 800D, I have auditioned the 802D, 801D, and 800D. During the audition, I could definitely hear the huge differences between the 802D and the 800D. I am a 70% two channel and 30% HT. If the primary usage for the speakers are two channel, I would recommend that you switch your front two speakers to 800D. The recommendation would be the same if your primary usage for the speakers are HT. However, I can't speak for multi channel SACD...etc.

I realized that "sky is the limit" for this hobby. Everyone, welcome to the world of agony......

By the way, what speaker cables are people using for their 800D's?

[jericho]

I use Siltech Classic MKII LS-188 for the 800D's , SQ-110 Classic as interlinks

[EAmin]

The CA-M400's are rated for 400 watts into an nominal 8 ohm load and will deliver a linear doubling of output of 800 watts into an 4 ohm load. They are stable at 2 ohm loads and are rumored to deliver 1200 watts RMS power with 1.3 dB of dynamic headroom. The CA-M400 monoblocks are rated to deliver 90A of current to the speakers but they have been tested in the lab to deliver even more! 8O

90 Amps? It makes me wonder why you even need to biamp if you have this much current going through the speakers. Like Abbey Roads --- why do they need to biamp using two of these bad boys on each speaker?

[RebelMan]

90 Amps? It makes me wonder why you even need to biamp if you have this much current going through the speakers. Like Abbey Roads --- why do they need to biamp using two of these bad boys on each speaker?

Is there a doubting Thomas among us? :lol: LOL

Not only will the CA-M400's drive the top of the heap 800D's with aplomb their little brother, the 100 wpc CA-2100 will too, albeit minus some authority and control but still with very respectable results. Passively bi-amping the 800D's as Abbey has done is intended to allieviate "some" of the stressful duties that are placed on the high-frequency amplifier. This has some sonic benefits such as greater ease, detail and clarity of the higher-frequencies. However, these benefits are largely available through bi-wiring given the design of the 800's.

Unless Abbey Roads were actively bi-amping the 800D's much of the acoustical benefits for bi-amping will go unnoticed. But Abbey Roads is a recording studio that is designed not only to monitor the sonic qualities of the recording but the properties of the signal as well. The beautiful thing about Classe's Delta series amplifiers, that goes beyond their musical ablilities, is the wealth of information (data) that can be caputure from the signals they amplify. I have good reason to believe that using two amplifiers to monitor these signals will provide more meaningful information to the sound engineers than one amp could provide and listening alone.

[caleb]

I use Chord Signature throughout the system - digital, analogue from pre to power and speaker wire.

I have had many combinations, but this Chord tackle is the dogs' b#ll#c(s ! ! !