B&W 802D and Yamaha RX-Z11

[wettou]

Has any one tried to power the 802D with the new receiver from Yamaha RX-Z11 and can speak about what it sounds like.

Yamaha has incorporated so many new features and logos.

[SoCalCM]

I've had other flagship receivers (Pioneer 49TX and Sunfire Ultimate) and unless the Yamaha has some breakthrough amplification (which it does not, 140x7 won't cut it) it will not fare any better. The 802D will sound good with weak amplifiers like in a receiver, but not its best. The challenge for a receiver trying to drive these speakers is in the bass. Going from so-so amplifiers, like in the receivers, to a Classe CA3200 was night and day. I could really hear the great speakers I paid for. The Yamaha will not be up to the task no matter how many features and logos it has.

[htsteve]

Dedicated Amp

wettou,

I have 802D's. I originally bi-amped them with a Rotel 1077 at 100 wpc. It sounded good, but not breathtaking. Certainly better than the 1077 running my N804's (which are now my rear speakers). Then I got a very good 200 wpc amp (the McIntosh MC205). The 802D's really shine now and can show off their capabilities. They love power and lots of it. As was noted by SoCalCM, the RX-Z11 will most likely do an adequate job, but really be too small for the job. The 802D's will do much better with at least 200 wpc of a dedicated amp. You could start with something like the Rotel RB-1092 at 500 wpc ($2500 list). Farther up the price/performance food chain are McIntosh, Classe, Krell, etc. Your dealer could also have some used gear in these brands.


Hope this helps.

[style]

pre/pro

Hi htsteve,

that's correct.
I have the Rsp1068 - for front Rotel Rb1092, centr Rb1091, rear Rb1092.
(B&W803s-htm3s-805s)
I think that the Yamaha or Denon flagship are good "only for pre/pro; new sound dd+,DTS master,...!!!

The super classè ssp800 is certainly a step above denono yamaha and unfortunately nothing dd +, dts master ...

Classè for 2channel with CP500/700 and denon / yamaha for HT: simple.

I like MC and electrocompaniet too but sure not for ht.

Greetings from Switzlerand
Omar

[mjb]

wettou,

I have 802D's. I originally bi-amped them with a Rotel 1077 at 100 wpc. It sounded good, but not breathtaking. Certainly better than the 1077 running my N804's (which are now my rear speakers). Then I got a very good 200 wpc amp (the McIntosh MC205). The 802D's really shine now can really can show off their capabilities. They love power and lots of it. As was noted by SoCalCM, the RX-Z11 will most likely do an adequate job, but really be too small for the job. The 802D's will do much better with at least 200 wpc of a dedicated amp. You could start with somethink like the Rotel RB-1092 at 500 wpc ($2500 list). Farther up the price/performance food chain are McIntosh, Classe, Krell, etc. Your dealer could also have some used gear in these brands.


Hope this helps.

I keep reading this, but I have a hard time believing/understand it - maybe a lack of experience, maybe a lack of equipment. But, I'm driving a pair of 802d's with 2 channels of a 1077, and I have gobs of bass, and it goes far louder than the neighbours care for. I had planned to passive bi-amp with the 1077, but never bothered as I'm not sure it would bring much improvement. The 1077 is extremely good at tracking low impeadance loads, and the 802d's spend most of their life looking like 4 ohms, so its probably fair to say they are being driven with 200 watts. Maybe its to do with my room size, maybe the hard floors, but I can't understand how a 90db spl speaker can be described as loving lots of power - under normal listening conditions. I was considering a RB-1092, but I'm sure it would be overkill. Please help me out!

[Glenee]

I keep reading this, but I have a hard time believing/understand it - maybe a lack of experience, maybe a lack of equipment. But, I'm driving a pair of 802d's with 2 channels of a 1077, and I have gobs of bass, and it goes far louder than the neighbours care for. I had planned to passive bi-amp with the 1077, but never bothered as I'm not sure it would bring much improvement. The 1077 is extremely good at tracking low impeadance loads, and the 802d's spend most of their life looking like 4 ohms, so its probably fair to say they are being driven with 200 watts. Maybe its to do with my room size, maybe the hard floors, but I can't understand how a 90db spl speaker can be described as loving lots of power - under normal listening conditions. I was considering a RB-1092, but I'm sure it would be overkill. Please help me out!

If that is a picture of the room you have them in. I can see why. The room is so alive. A little power would go a long way. A lot of homes have carpeting and cloth couches. The room acoustics will play a role in how much power they need. When I had them I used MC 501 Mono's. Lots of acoustic asorbtion material in the room. No reflective DB's. They will sound good with a 50 watt amp, but just not what you paid your money for.

[SoCalCM]

It is somewhat difficult to understand from reading. Very clear from listening. The 802Ds do not punish weak amplifiers so much as really reward good ones. These speakers are so good that they do sound better than other speakers with weaker amps. But with a really good amp everything improves -- the bass becomes cleaner, more controlled and a lot less boomy. The individual instruments become much more discernible and more musical. If you listen to a lot of classical, jazz, classic rock, or such it is especially apparent. If you can, borrow a Classe CA2200 or Krell Evo 402 or McIntosh etc., then you may understand what everyone is talking about and know how spectacular the 802Ds really are.

[htsteve]

I keep reading this, but I have a hard time believing/understand it - maybe a lack of experience, maybe a lack of equipment. But, I'm driving a pair of 802d's with 2 channels of a 1077, and I have gobs of bass, and it goes far louder than the neighbours care for. I had planned to passive bi-amp with the 1077, but never bothered as I'm not sure it would bring much improvement. The 1077 is extremely good at tracking low impeadance loads, and the 802d's spend most of their life looking like 4 ohms, so its probably fair to say they are being driven with 200 watts. Maybe its to do with my room size, maybe the hard floors, but I can't understand how a 90db spl speaker can be described as loving lots of power - under normal listening conditions. I was considering a RB-1092, but I'm sure it would be overkill. Please help me out!

Mike,

Glenee pretty much echoed my thought. That is, room acoustics play a huge part in sound. My room has carpet, cloth drapes, cloth couch and cloth ottoman. Pretty unreflective. In my room, the mac upgrade was definitive. To be fair, I do need to mention that I also replaced the rotel pre-amp I was using. I swapped Rotel for Mac all at once. I'm certain the pre-amp also contributed to the decided sound improvement.

Having a dealer who allows demo's or full returns later for upgrades is a great way to test the equipment in YOUR environment (i.e try a 1092. You might find that it surprises you in a good way). However, as a general rule, based on my own experience, I believe that for a speaker the size and capability of the 802D, a good dedicated amp is needed. I loved my 1077 on the N804's. Great match in my room. It's just the Mac is better with the 802D's compared to the 1077. I'm looking forward to putting all of this in our new HT room that is almost done. Then I get to see/hear a whole new experience.

Hope this helps.

[Mig17]

1092 is never overkill the 802
I think your 802 even deserve the mono of 1091 Rotel

I keep reading this, but I have a hard time believing/understand it - maybe a lack of experience, maybe a lack of equipment. But, I'm driving a pair of 802d's with 2 channels of a 1077, and I have gobs of bass, and it goes far louder than the neighbours care for. I had planned to passive bi-amp with the 1077, but never bothered as I'm not sure it would bring much improvement. The 1077 is extremely good at tracking low impeadance loads, and the 802d's spend most of their life looking like 4 ohms, so its probably fair to say they are being driven with 200 watts. Maybe its to do with my room size, maybe the hard floors, but I can't understand how a 90db spl speaker can be described as loving lots of power - under normal listening conditions. I was considering a RB-1092, but I'm sure it would be overkill. Please help me out!

[mjb]

Thanks for the comments.
Yes, I agree my room is a little hot but its hard to find wife friendly ways to dampen it (any suggestions?).
I'll try and test drive a 1092 (the rest are just way above my budget), I know in my heart its going to be 'better' - I just didn't want to upgrade yet! Its a never-ending cycle.

[Frankster72]

I found the rb-1092 a big improve over the 1077. although I drove them at the xt4 which is less efficient then the 802D

[wettou]

Yamaha RXZ11

Well, thank you for all you replies, I was mostly interested in finding out if anyone had an opportunity to demo or has the Yamaha RXZ11?

I am using amplification from Classé the Classé CA 5200 with the the 802D and yes the amp makes them sing. I also had in demo the Rotel 1092 but I thought Classé sounded better in my room.

So I ask again has anyone reviewed and listened to the Yamaha as a processor?

Thank you :

[Jeffk]

Wettou, it seems maybe your original question was different than what you intended to ask. You originally asked if anyone "powered" 802D's with the Yamaha, then you revealed that you power them with a Classe 5200, and subsequently asked if the Yamaha would be a good processor. Of course, I can't answer this either, lol, but I thought the clarification would help everyone. I'm curious what those who've demoed/have the Yamaha think, vs "better" pre/pros from Classe, Bryston, Meridian, Lexicon, Anthem, etc. I've got the Pioneer 49tx that SoCal had, and I just got N803's in my HT, so I'm trying to figure out how to upgrade the 2 channel side (I'm ok with 49tx for movies) and whether I should upgrade just the front amplification and still use the 49tx as preamp, upgrade both processor and amp, or just go to a great integrated. The answers to your question might give me a clue of what people think of using a mainstream rcvr's pre/pro with a really good amp.

[wettou]

Wettou, it seems maybe your original question was different than what you intended to ask. .

You are correct I am interested in learning about the Yamaha RX-Z11 as a pre/pro as I need to replace my aging Integra Research RDC-7.

[SoCalCM]

I have the Anthem Statement D1 and it outperforms any receiver. It seems that what you are asking is whether HDMI 1.3 connectivity with the formats it brings with it would be reason enough to switch to the receiver. My conclusion after considering the same course was no way. The compromise in sound particularly for music would be too much. I am considering replacing my Anthem with the Classe SSP800 or waiting to see if Anthem offers an upgrade to my D1 to take advantage of the new formats. I am in no hurry though -- the D1 is too good to downgrade everything just to get HDMI 1.3.

[cug]

1092 is never overkill the 802 I think your 802 even deserve the mono of 1091 Rotel

Cool. Because they can sense that the same ICEPower module is in a separate enclosure and feel more cared for or what?

[wettou]

Ok If money was no object here is what I would go for:

5 Classé CA 400M ($25,000)

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/specs/cam400.htm

or

5 Electrocompaniet Nemo 600 ($50,000)

http://www.electrocompaniet.com/products/power-amp/nemo.html

Maybe when the markets recover!