N803 based HT - Best upgrade: new amp or integrated?

[Jeffk]

Just picked up B&W N803's/HTM1 for my HT system, running through Pioneer VSX49tx rcvr. I really want to get most out of B&W's on 2 channel music, but don't know if I should max out on amplification and use the Pioneer's preamp or get the best musical integrated to run side-by-side for 2 channel. So everyone, what is my best bang on a 3k-4k budget? (BTW, will purchase used to max value). My options are:
1)Integrated with HT bypass or niles amp switcher (ie,Mac 6500/6900, Plinius
9200, Classe, Bryston B100, Krell 400xi, Chord cpm 2600/3300, CODA, Unison, etc).
2) Two-channel amp for most amplification value
3) Three-channel amp like Classe 3200 or Bryston 6B so front three have same amplification.

What would you do? And I guess while I'm at it, which amp would you recommend (I like detailed, forward, full, vibrant, you-are-there sound, strong but clear bass, don't care as much about soundstage and don't think
I'd like laid back sound). Thank you !

[Tommy]

If I were you, I'll try to find a used MC252, or even MC402 for maximum 2 channel performance since I'm 80% music and 20% movie. This way you don't have to worry about your front amplification later on. N803's like power. Classes 3200 is also a good choice too. Both Mc and Classe have good synergy with the B&W.
For strong and clear base, have you thought of adding a base? or is space an issue?

[Jeffk]

Tommy: i have a sunfire architectural sub, but i only really want to use that for movies as I don't like sub and full range speaker integration for music. The 803's should give me enough low end for music, if the amp or integrated is up to it. I might sacrifice some low end for dynamics, upfront live sound, but hoping I can find both in the amp or integrated. So that's why I mentioned it. Certainly Krell, Bryston and I believe Levinson have a reputation for strong low end, and I think the new breed of Class D stuff like NuForce, BelCanto, etc are strong in this regard, although NuForce has such a polarized reputation it's mind boggling: pro reviewers are absolutely bonkers in love with this amp, but the forums are full of both love and great disdain.

What I'm really trying to get at with this post though is what would make the greatest improvement in 2 channel sound, putting all my money into a better 2 or 3 channel amp (3 chnl option to maintain sonic consistency in multi-channel music and movies) or an integrated amp? The dilemma is caused by the option of using the Pioneers potentially inferior preamp feeding a great amp vs using an integrated's better, more music oriented preamp/amp combo. The compromise with the integrated is of course that I've lowered the amp quality slightly to include a better preamp. Budget is 3k-4k.

So what would would everyone else do??? Greatly look forward to more feedback. Thanks.

[Jeffk]

Anyone?

[scanido]

Seperates will give you the most flexibility, but if you want an all in one solution then go for an integrated.

Check out the new McIntosh MA7000, which outputs close to 250w.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...ghlight=MA7000

[RebelMan]

Just picked up B&W N803's/HTM1 for my HT system, running through Pioneer VSX49tx rcvr. I really want to get most out of B&W's on 2 channel music, but don't know if I should max out on amplification and use the Pioneer's preamp or get the best musical integrated to run side-by-side for 2 channel. So everyone, what is my best bang on a 3k-4k budget?

No question about it, get an integrated amplifier. I would recommend a dedicated amplifier ONLY if you were changing out the front end. Using the Pioneer with a beefier amplifier will give you more (clean) power for the same quality of sound that you have now.

1)Integrated with HT bypass or niles amp switcher (ie,Mac 6500/6900, Plinius
9200, Classe, Bryston B100, Krell 400xi, Chord cpm 2600/3300, CODA, Unison, etc).
2) Two-channel amp for most amplification value
3) Three-channel amp like Classe 3200 or Bryston 6B so front three have same amplification.

What would you do? And I guess while I'm at it, which amp would you recommend (I like detailed, forward, full, vibrant, you-are-there sound, strong but clear bass, don't care as much about soundstage and don't think
I'd like laid back sound). Thank you !

Given your tastes I would highly recommend Bryston or Krell then McIntosh but no Classe' for you (as far as integrated amplifiers go, however, it would be a different matter entirely for power amplifiers).

[Jeffk]

Thanks for the responses. Look forward to hearing more opinions. There is so much to learn on this forum from everyone's experiences.

RebelMan, if I understand you correctly, you believe that the Pioneer's preamp really controls the sound, so serious amp upgrade will not make much improvement, and certainly not as much as a separate integrated. So, assuming the Pioneers 130wpc are good enough for these speakers in HT, an integrated is best option. You did mention that Classe integrated would not be to my liking given my tastes, but you qualified that if we are talking about power amp. Could you elaborate?

[DeepEndX]

Rotel is known as bang for the buck. With a budget of 4k, you can consider Rotel RB 1090 power amplifier, Rotel RC 1070 pre-amplifier for two channel listening, and a A/V receiver such as Denon or Yamaha for movies.

[RebelMan]

RebelMan, if I understand you correctly, you believe that the Pioneer's preamp really controls the sound, so serious amp upgrade will not make much improvement, and certainly not as much as a separate integrated.

Correct.

So, assuming the Pioneers 130wpc are good enough for these speakers in HT, an integrated is best option.

If your intention is to improve stereo without making a heavy financial investment in the process then yes.

You did mention that Classe integrated would not be to my liking given my tastes, but you qualified that if we are talking about power amp. Could you elaborate?

High quality amplifiers, most being solid state, generally impose less character on the signal than the supporting ancillaries do. It is not always the case but it does occur with far greater frequency then the contrary. What really distinguishes a high quality power amplifier from another is not so much its character but rather its ability to deliver current on demand at any given moment quickly and without distorting in the process.

An integrated amplifier combines a pre-amplifier and power amplifier together comprising a one box solution to two corresponding separates. Because the power amplifier section is more benign to the audio signal than the pre-amplifier section of an integrated amplifier, more of the brand's character will shine through. Given that your tastes do not completely align with the Classe' house sound you are well advised to avoid their integrated amplifier. However, their power amplifiers are every bit as transparent to the audio signal as other well known brands normally associated with specific qualities like LF output and HF quickness.

A similar issue was debated at some length in another thread. My position probably didn't win me any popularity awards because it was somewhat controversial. Having said that I am forever fervent in where I stand on this matter. A recent conversation that Charles Hansen, founder of Ayre Acoustics, had on another board concurs.

He was essentially asked if there were any advantages with partnering his newest pre-amplifier with the previous top of the line amplifier or, vise versa, the newest amplifier with the previous top of the line pre-amplifier. While he wasn't completely sure of the given scenario, he hadn't tried it, he indicated that the newest pre-amplifier was a "bigger leap forward" from the previous pre-amplifier than the amplifiers were with respect to each other. Given that this comes from a well respected member of the community it's no longer a question of my position's validity but rather its believability. To the unbelievers I say go listen and you will believe.

[Antus]

if you have (or are considering to) get a state of the art cd player. connect that cd player to integrated amp will get the best 2 channel sound. otherwise, i think 3 channel amp make more sense.

when u get in integrated amp, u are pretty much stock with it. no future upgrade possibility. on the other hand, when future fund allow, u can get a pre-pro to replace the current pioneer.

although the preamp section of integrated will be better than Pioneer, but the difference is (in my opinion) small. if you are consider to hook up with switcher, the advantage is pretty much disappear.

as for 3 channel amp. brysten have more full sound. Classe have lean sound. if you like bass, brysen. detail and sweet, Classe. u really should listen to both and decide.

oh, and btw, Classe amp have one special "feature" (i don't know if brysten has the same) you can connect both RCA and XLR input to the amp. and switch between 2 sources. Why is it important? you can connect RCA input with Pioneer and get a separate high-end pre-amp from others to connect with XLR input. (and of course a high end cd player, too) while in movie, just switch to RCA input. when u want the best 2 channel music, switch to XLR and u have a state of the art 2 channel.

[Briz vegas]

Correct.

High quality amplifiers, most being solid state, generally impose less character on the signal than the supporting ancillaries do. It is not always the case but it does occur with far greater frequency then the contrary. What really distinguishes a high quality power amplifier from another is not so much its character but rather its ability to deliver current on demand at any given moment quickly and without distorting in the process.

An integrated amplifier combines a pre-amplifier and power amplifier together comprising a one box solution to two corresponding separates. Because the power amplifier section is more benign to the audio signal than the pre-amplifier section of an integrated amplifier, more of the brand's character will shine through.

Then we get this creature called a control amplifier. A power amp with attenuation on the front. When well executed it gives very good results - I have one by CJ and I am also aware that Ayre does a nice control amp. I like the idea that when I am using my control amp in theatre bypass mode it is a power amp pure and simple. What I like even more is the quality of the sound in a 2 channel setup.

[Jeffk]

Thanks so much for responses so far. Keep 'em coming. I'm getting a real education. A few questions:

Antus, the idea of using the Classe amp's switching capabilities is intriguing. You say that using a switcher would negate any benefit of the integrated's better preamp. Do you really belive a switcher has that much impact on the sound?

RebelMan, I appreciate your candor regarding the Classe house sound. I've read numerous reviews and forums and, although Classe gets wonderful reviews, it always gets tagged with a "smooth" and maybe even polite sound (as does the Sim Moon i7 for that matter). However, would this hold true even for the Classe CA 3200 or 5200 amps, or are they a little more neutral if you will? Also, if I went this route and I looked to hook up a better pre/pro later, would adding the SSP 300 or 600 bring me right back to the Classe house sound again, or is it better (for my tastes) at this higher performance level? Lastly, in keeping with your thinking that the preamp owns the signal, if I mated a more vibrant, forward, brighter preamp to the Classe 3200/5200, would that be the ultimate solution over time?

Briz, I have an Acurus DIA100 passive integrated running older B&W matrix 803's in another room, and it sounds great. Have never felt the need to change this over last 10 years. Is CJ's CA200 essentially a passive preamp plus amp, or something different?

I will say this, even with well-recorded redbook CD's, the 803's sound very good via the Pioneer rcvr and the old pioneer dv47 universal cd/dvda/sacd player. Unfortunately, older, poorly recorded redbook cd's sound horrific, essentially unlistenable at moderately high volume. Ugghhh!!! Now I also need to figure out how to improve redbook sound. Gonna have to look at some outboard dac's or a new cdp too. ....and the money flows....

[RebelMan]

RebelMan, I appreciate your candor regarding the Classe house sound. I've read numerous reviews and forums and, although Classe gets wonderful reviews, it always gets tagged with a "smooth" and maybe even polite sound (as does the Sim Moon i7 for that matter). However, would this hold true even for the Classe CA 3200 or 5200 amps, or are they a little more neutral if you will?

It still holds true but to a far lesser degree. I would summarize the amplifiers as behaving more neutral whereas the pre-amplifiers are more natural.

Also, if I went this route and I looked to hook up a better pre/pro later, would adding the SSP 300 or 600 bring me right back to the Classe house sound again, or is it better (for my tastes) at this higher performance level?

Adding either SSP will get you closer to Classe's house sound. Soundstaging and laid back character were not on your approved list but you would incur both if you go in the direction of the SSPs. Whilst it compliments the B&W's perfectly it goes against your grain of tastes.

Lastly, in keeping with your thinking that the preamp owns the signal, if I mated a more vibrant, forward, brighter preamp to the Classe 3200/5200, would that be the ultimate solution over time?

While I don't advocate the mixing of pre-amplifier and power amplifier brands, to satisfy your specific requirements then yes, absolutely.

[Jeffk]

...8 months later...

Well, I made a whole bunch of changes. I got wind of Sunfire closing out line, so I wound up getting TGA5200 amp (200/400wpc into 8/4ohms) for a ridiculous price (over 50% off). OK, may not have the cache of Krell, Classe, etc, but it gave me an opportunity to go separates, get lots of power, and a far better amp then the internal amp of the Pioneer receiver, all for a song. So I plug it in and , WOW!!!! With all due respect to Rebelman's opinion that the pio preamp controlled the sound and the amp wouldn't make much of a difference...well....all I can say is the exact opposite happened. The improvement was HUGE, and wonderful. What an amp.

As it turned out, Sunfire was also closing out the TGP5 pre/pro, which I also got for over 50% off. Nice but not startling upgrade over the Pioneer in 2 channel, but big upgrade in HT.

This combo price allowed me to splurge on a hot-rodded Denon 3930ci (modded by the Upgrade Company). Well now, this modded universal player has added detail like I never thought possible. If you haven't looked into modded stuff by Ric Shultz over at The Upgrade Company, you may want to if you're considering changes. His mods on Esoteric are accepted by Esoteric and do not void their warranty. What does that tell you?

All in all, even basic Redbook CD (even the old ones) sounds glorious. So I am one happy camper.

But, as you all know, this has only made me hungrier for the holy grail, so now I'm considering even more upgrades to squeeze out better 2 channel sound. Am thinking maybe Class D Nuforce or Spectron amp (runs cool, chassis not huge, won't drain house current) to push bottom end and boost detail, and drop in 2 channel tube preamp with HT bypass, like Modwright SWL 9.0 or Aesthetix Calypso, to soften the Class D edginess. What do you think?

[sticknstones]

Using Emotiva Amps for External amplification

Well, I made a whole bunch of changes. I got wind of Sunfire closing out line, so I wound up getting TGA5200 amp (200/400wpc into 8/4ohms) for a ridiculous price (over 50% off). OK, may not have the cache of Krell, Classe, etc, but it gave me an opportunity to go separates, get lots of power, and a far better amp then the internal amp of the Pioneer receiver, all for a song. So I plug it in and , WOW!!!! With all due respect to Rebelman's opinion that the pio preamp controlled the sound and the amp wouldn't make much of a difference...well....all I can say is the exact opposite happened. The improvement was HUGE, and wonderful. What an amp.

As it turned out, Sunfire was also closing out the TGP5 pre/pro, which I also got for over 50% off. Nice but not startling upgrade over the Pioneer in 2 channel, but big upgrade in HT.

This combo price allowed me to splurge on a hot-rodded Denon 3930ci (modded by the Upgrade Company). Well now, this modded universal player has added detail like I never thought possible. If you haven't looked into modded stuff by Ric Shultz over at The Upgrade Company, you may want to if you're considering changes. His mods on Esoteric are accepted by Esoteric and do not void their warranty. What does that tell you?

All in all, even basic Redbook CD (even the old ones) sounds glorious. So I am one happy camper.

But, as you all know, this has only made me hungrier for the holy grail, so now I'm considering even more upgrades to squeeze out better 2 channel sound. Am thinking maybe Class D Nuforce or Spectron amp (runs cool, chassis not huge, won't drain house current) to push bottom end and boost detail, and drop in 2 channel tube preamp with HT bypass, like Modwright SWL 9.0 or Aesthetix Calypso, to soften the Class D edginess. What do you think?

I bought the Emotiva XPA-3 3 channel 200wpc class a/b to run my 804's that I got for $499 with a 30day no fuss return and transferable 5 year warranty. These amps are built like tanks and the XPA-3 was over 75 pounds.

I am about to add either the Emotiva XPA-2 which is a class a/b 2 channel 250wpc or the RPA-2 which was designed for stereo and has a dual mono-block architecture class H 2 channel amp with 200wpc all rated specs are 8ohm the 4 ohm specs are on the website but since we are all B&W it is less relevant.

Once I pick up the 2 channel then I will completely retire the Denon 3803 from running the surrounds.

Gene DeSalla from Audioholics reviewed both amps and I sent him a note to see what he would recommend between the two.

If you have not seen or heard of the EMO line I would check it out. They are US based and have a growing customer base.

My results were the same as Jeffk where adding the external amp made a huge difference as I hear sounds now that I am not used to hearing on material that is familiar to me. It is really made music listening fun again!

I never liked my B&W 804 with the Denon as the bass sounded like cardboard thumps. I knew it wasn't the speaker and the price value plus reading all the forums on these amps made separates affordable.

My 804's sound awesome where the Denon could play them loud the sound was to bright and not enjoyable. With the EMO I can crank it and feel it front and center.

I am a happy camper too! :B Here are the links and also has links to the reviews from audioholics.

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

[atchudy]

I bought the Emotiva XPA-3 3 channel 200wpc class a/b to run my 804's that I got for $499 with a 30day no fuss return and transferable 5 year warranty. These amps are built like tanks and the XPA-3 was over 75 pounds.

I am about to add either the Emotiva XPA-2 which is a class a/b 2 channel 250wpc or the RPA-2 which was designed for stereo and has a dual mono-block architecture class H 2 channel amp with 200wpc all rated specs are 8ohm the 4 ohm specs are on the website but since we are all B&W it is less relevant.

Once I pick up the 2 channel then I will completely retire the Denon 3803 from running the surrounds.

Gene DeSalla from Audioholics reviewed both amps and I sent him a note to see what he would recommend between the two.

If you have not seen or heard of the EMO line I would check it out. They are US based and have a growing customer base.

My results were the same as Jeffk where adding the external amp made a huge difference as I hear sounds now that I am not used to hearing on material that is familiar to me. It is really made music listening fun again!

I never liked my B&W 804 with the Denon as the bass sounded like cardboard thumps. I knew it wasn't the speaker and the price value plus reading all the forums on these amps made separates affordable.

My 804's sound awesome where the Denon could play them loud the sound was to bright and not enjoyable. With the EMO I can crank it and feel it front and center.

I am a happy camper too! :B Here are the links and also has links to the reviews from audioholics.

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

Would the emotiva be enough for 803's?

I am very interested in the difference between xpa and rpa.

[sticknstones]

Would the emotiva be enough for 803's?

I am very interested in the difference between xpa and rpa.

Yes, the Emo line is very flexible where you can get a 7 channel amp with equal amplification or smaller channel series. The XPA-1 is 500wpc.

I would go with the XPA-2 or RPA-2 though as with the Denon I could turn it up to +10 where it was just loud but not a full soundstage and with the XPA-3 loud is -10 to -17 and regular listening is around -25 to -38.

I am hoping Gene will answer my note and I will post his reply as I can read the spec differences between the RPA-2 and XPA-2 but cannot translate what that would be in terms of sound. At a minimum I will call EMO as they are really easy to talk to and discuss with them. I posted here to see if any of the other B&W owners have experienced these products.

There is not question on the product and their engineering as they OEM other known brands and have about 130 engineers doing design work and created this offshoot to develop their own house brand.

They are really picky too as they delayed their subs as it was not as good as they wanted and they redid their software. I like companies that are willing to share their thinking like this and would rather see a company delay a product vs slamming it into the market. They are as passionate about the hobby as we are and do not want to compromise their reputation. I personally have a lot of respect for that and they are winning my business.

[ray5]

I bought the Emotiva XPA-3 3 channel 200wpc class a/b to run my 804's that I got for $499 with a 30day no fuss return and transferable 5 year warranty. These amps are built like tanks and the XPA-3 was over 75 pounds.

I am about to add either the Emotiva XPA-2 which is a class a/b 2 channel 250wpc or the RPA-2 which was designed for stereo and has a dual mono-block architecture class H 2 channel amp with 200wpc all rated specs are 8ohm the 4 ohm specs are on the website but since we are all B&W it is less relevant.

Once I pick up the 2 channel then I will completely retire the Denon 3803 from running the surrounds.

Gene DeSalla from Audioholics reviewed both amps and I sent him a note to see what he would recommend between the two.

If you have not seen or heard of the EMO line I would check it out. They are US based and have a growing customer base.

My results were the same as Jeffk where adding the external amp made a huge difference as I hear sounds now that I am not used to hearing on material that is familiar to me. It is really made music listening fun again!

I never liked my B&W 804 with the Denon as the bass sounded like cardboard thumps. I knew it wasn't the speaker and the price value plus reading all the forums on these amps made separates affordable.

My 804's sound awesome where the Denon could play them loud the sound was to bright and not enjoyable. With the EMO I can crank it and feel it front and center.

I am a happy camper too! :B Here are the links and also has links to the reviews from audioholics.

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

Have you or anyoneon this thread had a chance to compare theEmotiva's to Rotel amps? I am divided between them. I have heard the Rotel 1570, they are good but have not heard the Emotiva's. I know you can try them out but wondering if anyone has compared them before. The question is due to their tremendous price difference. Thanks,
Ray

[sticknstones]

Have you or anyoneon this thread had a chance to compare theEmotiva's to Rotel amps? I am divided between them. I have heard the Rotel 1570, they are good but have not heard the Emotiva's. I know you can try them out but wondering if anyone has compared them before. The question is due to their tremendous price difference. Thanks,
Ray

Here is a post on the Emo Lounge.. There are probably more and it is worth reading the customer reviews. This one has a lot of amps mentioned including outlaw, rotel parasound anthem and such from different listeners and one post with 9 folks participating in a blind a/b/c. Enjoy!

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com...ead=292&page=1 8)

[sticknstones]

Have you or anyoneon this thread had a chance to compare theEmotiva's to Rotel amps? I am divided between them. I have heard the Rotel 1570, they are good but have not heard the Emotiva's. I know you can try them out but wondering if anyone has compared them before. The question is due to their tremendous price difference. Thanks,
Ray

On an unrelated note here is the link on their Subs which are jaw dropping impressive design but not realeased yet.

Here is the OSD for their Subwoofer eq. I think they are ahead of the curve on this type of approach and I dig it! The amp for the dual sub is 1500w as an external amp mounting in the rack. To contrast I currently have a NHT with the MA-1a 80W monoaural amp. I am on the preorder list for the sub and anxiously waiting to upgrade my gear one component at a time! I am very loyal to my B&W's though but I think they are behind in the subwoofer innovations. Please I am not wanting any debates just trying to share!

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com...ay&thread=2757
__________________

[atchudy]

Who do EMotiva make OEM stuff for?

[sticknstones]

Who do EMotiva make OEM stuff for?

It is hard to get information as they have non-disclosure agreements and those that have been through the factories say it is eye opening. Outlaw and Parasound are at least two.

Sherwood does the same thing with receivers where their housebrand is much smaller than their OEM activities.

Kind of like Belden where they will make certain cables based on other company provided specifications that companies like BlueJeans will provide.

I do not pay all that much attention to this but am very pleased with the build quality and design considerations that go into their efforts. I like that all the products have a standard chassis design that stacks including the processor, amps, cd players.

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/aud...ds/emotiva.php

[ray5]

Here is a post on the Emo Lounge.. There are probably more and it is worth reading the customer reviews. This one has a lot of amps mentioned including outlaw, rotel parasound anthem and such from different listeners and one post with 9 folks participating in a blind a/b/c. Enjoy!

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com...ead=292&page=1 8)

Thanks. I am not an audiophile and hence hesitant about putting big bucks in something I know very little about technically. I am looking to get the 803D and HTM 2D as my fronts. The Rotel 1570 as the processor and Rotel 1575 as the amp. I am breaking my bank for this already. My concern and question is that most people who have the 803D's and 802D's(a moment of insanity on my part!) feel that nobody but Classe and Macintosh amps do these justice, Rotel might to the 803D but definitely not the 802D. I do respect the folks who can tell the difference in the amps but isn't solid state solid state?
I just can't justify buying Classe or Mac but also don't want to spend on Speakers when the electronics are considered inadequate. And then this thing about synergy between the pre/pro and the amp.

[sticknstones]

Thanks. I am not an audiophile and hence hesitant about putting big bucks in something I know very little about technically. I am looking to get the 803D and HTM 2D as my fronts. The Rotel 1570 as the processor and Rotel 1575 as the amp. I am breaking my bank for this already. My concern and question is that most people who have the 803D's and 802D's(a moment of insanity on my part!) feel that nobody but Classe and Macintosh amps do these justice, Rotel might to the 803D but definitely not the 802D. I do respect the folks who can tell the difference in the amps but isn't solid state solid state?
I just can't justify buying Classe or Mac but also don't want to spend on Speakers when the electronics are considered inadequate. And then this thing about synergy between the pre/pro and the amp.

Yup, Its nice to have options and I posted the Emo questions and links as I was and am trying to see if anyone has done a side by side on the RPA XPA with the B&W line. Our speakers as I am learning in the 800 series can take lots of clean power and reward us for providing it. These forums are great to exchange experiences and the Emotiva is a product line I am happy to vouch for.

The rotel looks like a nice amp. I am not one to get into any kind of debates on products. I like the idea of sharing ideas doing individual research, applying our own sense of value and budget. I also like hearing the results once everyone makes their decisions.

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

This is the closest to the 1575 on the EMO line. I cannot tell from the Rotel data sheets what they use for power supplies and other engineering highlights.

This paper is amplifier ratings explained. I found these helpful when I started researcing it and it took me about 3 months to make my decision.

http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=74

Here is some interesting read on the 10 things you should know about amps

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/509712.html

Enjoy and let us know what you do and how it sounds! 8)

[sticknstones]

Would the emotiva be enough for 803's?

I am very interested in the difference between xpa and rpa.

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=speakers&action=display&thread=3920

Here is a thread on the Emo lounge for another B&W 803 owner. Some AV pro installers commented on Mac vs Emo and I think you would enjoy the read. Make sure you read both pages and I think there is some fair and honest experiences shared with some brutal honesty about prefrences.