700 series dead?

[BasementJax]

I've heard rumors from multiple dealers now that the 700 series is soon to be dead. Has anyone heard any official anouncement from B&W yet?

I'm very curious to see if they re-design the 700 series or just eliminate it and use the CM series to fill that gap.

[hifiguymi]

There has been nothing announced from B&W that the 700 Series is going away. Since it is the oldest of the the "main" lines (600, 700, and 800) it will probably be the next line to get overhauled. It remains to be seen when, and what, will happen when it does.

Eric

[Briz vegas]

Why would they delete the 700 series other than too many models - and that would be due to all the lifestyle stuff they are putting out.....or maybe poor sales.

The CM series does not feature the tweeter on top and the angled cabinets etc which B&W always claimed have sonic benefits. If they need to rationalise it would surely be better to combine the CMs (which are very close to the 600s) into a revised 700 series.

For what it is worth the distortion figures on the 703 are better than the CM7 for example. I have not listened to both so this may not be audible, but I would also rather look at a 703 than a CM7..........but I would still buy an 805s over both.

Maybe what they mean is that the current 700 series is soon to be dead - that makes a little more sense. That being said, I have a soft spot for the 700s because they still represent a hifi first philisophy (in my head at least). CMs are like 600s in fancy dress.

[wgriel]

I compared the 703 and the CM7 and to me, the 703 was a much better speaker.

If the 700 series were to be dropped, I would expect that either a revised 700 series or a higher end tower or two in the CM line would be developed. Otherwise, it's quite a jump from the CMs to the 800 series.

[BasementJax]

Yeah, I agree with your comments re:CM Briz. The 703 is a lot closer to 804s than anything else. I meant "..700 series in it's current form...".

Dropping the 700 line instead of doing a re-design was pure speculation on my part.

[cug]

For what it is worth the distortion figures on the 703 are better than the CM7 for example. I have not listened to both so this may not be audible, but I would also rather look at a 703 than a CM7..........but I would still buy an 805s over both.

Not sure about the 805S over the 703. The 703 is an amazingly good speaker, it belongs more to the 800 series than to the 700. The 805S is just a bit light on bass ... (obviously).

The CM7 is nowhere near the 703. For me it wasn't even close to a 704 and one of the biggest disappointments from B&W for me (after owning Matrix II in the late 80's / early 90's and getting back into music privately last summer). Originally I went to the dealer because I wanted to hear (and perhaps buy) exactly the CM7 and was so disappointed. Then I climbed up the chain more and more while comparing more and more and waited for more money to come in and bought the 804S.

cug

[WI Rotel]

Not sure about the 805S over the 703. The 703 is an amazingly good speaker, it belongs more to the 800 series than to the 700. The 805S is just a bit light on bass ... (obviously).

The CM7 is nowhere near the 703. For me it wasn't even close to a 704 and one of the biggest disappointments from B&W for me (after owning Matrix II in the late 80's / early 90's and getting back into music privately last summer). Originally I went to the dealer because I wanted to hear (and perhaps buy) exactly the CM7 and was so disappointed. Then I climbed up the chain more and more while comparing more and more and waited for more money to come in and bought the 804S.

cug

You should have listened to the XT4, to my ear they are significantly superior to the CM7 and not too different to the 703 (the 703's mids are better).

[Mikael]

I think and hope that B&W will be launching a new 7 series soon.IMO the new 683 is out performing the 703.It would be so great if B&W would do a floor standing version of their new CT 7,3, with the 2 8" woofers and the blue kevlar mid and the new soft dome tweeter.That would be the only new model they had to make, to have a hole new 7 series,(with the rest of the CT 7 series)

[f77]

lols

"the CMs (which are very close to the 600s)"

This made me lol so hard I had to register to reply. Short story, that statement is wrong.

[sandalsocks]

I think that they the 683 and cm7's are good in different ways. I thought the 683's were more directional and had more bass but I didn't like the bass. The cm7's were clearer in the vocals but lack bass to the point where I felt some thing was missing in the music.

[Mig17]

Ridiculous that when BW upgrade the old 9NT and 7 NT to 700 series and no sound improvement
now what you waiting for successor of 703 or 704
It is just new jar but old wine

[Luke Skywalker]

For me 703, 803D and 801D are the best purchases. It would be an error to kill the 700

[f77]

"I think that they the 683 and cm7's are good in different ways. I thought the 683's were more directional and had more bass but I didn't like the bass. The cm7's were clearer in the vocals but lack bass to the point where I felt some thing was missing in the music."

Not arguing with that, what I'm saying is that they're very different speakers. My personal opinion is that the CMs are infinitely better, I prefer them over both the 600 and the 700 series, especially the older cm4 which is the best reasonably priced speaker I've heard.

[cug]

For me 703, 803D and 801D are the best purchases. It would be an error to kill the 700

It's interesting how opinions can be totally different - I think the 804S and 802D are the best purchases. But okay - that's just me and the your quote is just you ...

[sandalsocks]

Not arguing with that, what I'm saying is that they're very different speakers. My personal opinion is that the CMs are infinitely better, I prefer them over both the 600 and the 700 series, especially the older cm4 which is the best reasonably priced speaker I've heard.

I agree to. I prefer the 700's (the 703 in particular), over both the 600 and CM series. Price for the value its a whole different story. The 703's seems quite expensive now since the cm7 and 683 has been released.

[Pedro]

It's interesting how opinions can be totally different - I think the 804S and 802D are the best purchases. But okay - that's just me and the your quote is just you ...

I think the same as Luke (703,803D and 801D).

For example, from the 803D to 802D, the major diference is in the midrange. The bass isnt so much better, i mean, they are little better because the cabinet is diferent, less resonance. So owning and liking the 803D i would jump to the 801D, wich also seems to have the same sound (bass overwhelming the mids)

[mthane]

I do have a pair of 683 and think they are excellent speaker for the price. But there is noway they will outperform a 703.

[george_k]

I certainly hope they don't do away with the 700 because I find it sits quite nicely between the 6xx series and the 8xx. You get a better looking and better sounding product with real wood veneers over the 6xx's

But they do need to rethink this line. Personally they should get rid of the 704 and it's next of kin and just offer a bookshelf, large tower with FST and center channel with FST in the 7xx lineup. I don't think the 704 sells nearly as well as the 705 or 703.

[joetama]

For me 703, 803D and 801D are the best purchases. It would be an error to kill the 700

I am going to have to agree with you 100%

The 703 is too close to the 804S, and to be honest I like my 703 better than my dad's 804S. But, the 803D is a big step up and the 801D (woot for a Rohacell 15") is a big step up from that. I have never had the opertunity to listen to the 800D and 801D but I have heard them both at different occasions and they both are so good it is sick.

Anyway, in my opinoin, it would be a vast mistake to extingush the 700 series (although I wouldn't mind because I already have mine). However, I do feel that maybe it is time to revamp the series a little. But, if they did much work to the 703, IMO, there would be no need for the 804S. The part of the series that needs the most work is the 704,705, and the poopy sounding HTM-7. I would love to see a HTM-6/5 in the $1,000/1,200 price range above the HTM-7 with a FST Mid range and a bass driver or two. Maybe a tweek to the styling of the HTM-7 would be nice too. I think it is one of the ugliest center channels ever. When the CT-7 Series comes out, I am thinking about buying one of those to replace my HTM-7. But, who knows.

Also, I think there would be way too much of a gap between the Series if they eleminated the 700 Series. The 600 Series is good but no where near the 800 Series, and the CM Series is, as someone said before, the 600 Series in fancy dress with some major tweeks. (They really are different speakers so it is hard to truly compare them) But, it doesn't compare either to the 800 Series.

It will be interesting to see. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch what B&W does. However, the 700 Series does have a lot of people who dislike it for some reason or another. Everyone loves the 800 Series and most people are blown alway by the 600 Series, but for some reason unknown to me the 700 Series is like that cousin that we all have that no one likes to talk about.

/Book:T

[f77]

and the CM Series is, as someone said before, the 600 Series in fancy dress with some major tweeks

no, it's not.

[joetama]

no, it's not.

What is the major difference then?

One bass drivers instead of two.
Box design.
5 inch mid vs 6 inch mid.
Crossover Difference.

Anything else?

[sandalsocks]

What is the major difference then?

One bass drivers instead of two.
Box design.
5 inch mid vs 6 inch mid.
Crossover Difference.

Anything else?

I think the tweeters and highs sound more refined. Does that have to do more with the crossovers or are the tweets the same?

[f77]

Anything else?

The sound?

They are completely different sounding speakers. No offence, but A/B listen to them with quality equipment rather than read up on specifications.

[cug]

The 703 is too close to the 804S, and to be honest I like my 703 better than my dad's 804S. But, the 803D is a big step up and the 801D (woot for a Rohacell 15") is a big step up from that. I have never had the opertunity to listen to the 800D and 801D but I have heard them both at different occasions and they both are so good it is sick.

There you go - I personally think, that the 804s is sooo much better than the 703 that is more than worth the money. The overall sound is so much improved.

And between 804s and 803s - it's just a waste of money and I don't like the sound of the 803D - it seemed soo much below the 802D, that this isn't a worthy upgrade for me, as I really liked the sound of the 804s better.

But, and this is the biggest "but" in every discussion about sound: It's personal taste. That's just it. I totally agree that the 803D sounds different and has a fuller bass - but I just don't like the overall character. This speaker does not sound "right" for my ears.

Anyway, in my opinoin, it would be a vast mistake to extingush the 700 series (although I wouldn't mind because I already have mine). However, I do feel that maybe it is time to revamp the series a little.

Yes, that's right. They definitely have to work on the 705 / 704. These are, compared to the 703 a totally different class.

The 600 Series is good but no where near the 800 Series, and the CM Series is, as someone said before, the 600 Series in fancy dress with some major tweeks. (They really are different speakers so it is hard to truly compare them) But, it doesn't compare either to the 800 Series.

Interesting, the first B&W speaker I listened to after decades of abstinence from B&W was the CM7 and it was the biggest disappointment I ever had when listening to speakers.

[f77]

Interesting, the first B&W speaker I listened to after decades of abstinence from B&W was the CM7 and it was the biggest disappointment I ever had when listening to speakers.

Fair enough. For me that award goes to the 600 s3 series. You might just not like the CM:s, but if you've happened to audition them with cheap/mediocre electronics I can confidently say you haven't heard them at all. If that's not the case, to each their own.

[Pedro]

I totally agree that the 803D sounds different and has a fuller bass - but I just don't like the overall character. This speaker does not sound "right" for my ears..

You mean the bass of the 803D surpass the midranges?? If it yes, i have the same impression comparing the 803D with the 802D, when the 802D have an open midrange giving the impression of more balanced sound and not so weight bass.

Well being a metal maniac, i could stay with the 803D or 801D wich THEY give the impression of bass outputing the rest. So depends the taste :T

[cug]

You mean the bass of the 803D surpass the midranges?? If it yes, i have the same impression comparing the 803D with the 802D, when the 802D have an open midrange giving the impression of more balanced sound and not so weight bass.

I didn't like the overall balance over the frequency range. The highs are artificially smooth, the bass is very strong, very tight (indeed very good), but to much for the rest of the speaker. Maybe that's why I don't like the speaker, I'm not a bass freak. I like a an overall harmony in the speaker. And the 804s, as well as the 803s, do have a balance over the frequency range. And the really next step up for me is the 802D because they have the balance again - while the others are just insane from the price perspective ... at least for my budget, so I don't see them as a "value buy". :B

Well being a metal maniac, i could stay with the 803D or 801D wich THEY give the impression of bass outputing the rest. So depends the taste :T

That's it.

[wgriel]

Fair enough. For me that award goes to the 600 s3 series. You might just not like the CM:s, but if you've happened to audition them with cheap/mediocre electronics I can confidently say you haven't heard them at all. If that's not the case, to each their own.

I listened to the CM7s and A/B them against first the 704s and then the 703s.

I thought the CM7s were a very nice speaker and in no way would I call them disappointing; but I also thought they were priced just about right and weren't a "giant killer" either. I could see someone choosing them over the 704 (they have a more detailed midrange, imo) but if push came to shove I'd probably pick the 704. But in my opinion the 703 towered over the CM7 (and the 704 for that matter).

fwiw, I liked the 600 series 3, especially for the price. I have yet to listen to the latest 600 series but will do so soon (just out of curiosity). I'm not saying that the 600 V3 compared to the CMs or anything like that, but I thought they offered good sound for the price.

I still have a pair of DM600 S3's in kitchen for "casual" listening and I really do like them.

[cug]

I thought the CM7s were a very nice speaker and in no way would I call them disappointing;

Maybe it was a too high expectation from my side. I had some old floorstanding speakers at home I got 11 years ago and paid nearly nothing for them. Nevertheless they were good enough while I just wasn't interested in listening to music at home all too much. Afterall I would place them between 704 and 703 - closer to the 703. And I paid 650,- DM for them (around 325 EUR or $480 at the current rate).

But, after we moved to Canada, we had to get new electronics and I also went shopping for new speakers - I liked the look of the CM7 and thought I give it a try but they were so inferior to the ones I had at home that I was totally disappointed because I came with the expectation I got from having B&W Matrix II for a couple of years in the late 80's / early 90's. Okay, I know it's different, but nevertheless I didn't like the CM7 at all. And the sales rep said, if I come from the Matrix II I should start listening from the 703 up and not the others.

Because of budget issues (and WAF) I listened to CM7, 705, and 704 first, liked none of these but thought that it was getting better at least. Then the 703 was just a "Wow" effect - what a difference. I decided at that point, that there was no way buying anything below a 703 and to wait until the budget recovered a little bit from the car, car repairs, new electronics, flights back home, ... and listened to a lot of speaker in the $4000 range (CAD), like Totem Acoustics, Focal, Martin Logan. Finally went up, listened to 805S, 804S, 803S, 803D, 802D (the last just for comparison, it was out of reach), I know the 801D and 800D from listening sessions with a friend in Germany.

And the one that provided to most "bang for the buck" from all these speakers were the 804S, mainly because the 802D was way too expensive for me. If I ever upgrade again, it will be either 802D or higher. But the 803D is for my taste not worth the money. Again: YMMV. This is my taste.

[btf1980]

What is the major difference then?

One bass drivers instead of two.
Box design.
5 inch mid vs 6 inch mid.
Crossover Difference.

Anything else?

You forgot one thing. The sound!! I have a 5.1 system based around the CM series, and it was an agonizing A/B testing process with the CM's, 700's and 600's, I chose the CM's and to me I think the CM series are a real gem in the B&W product line. Sure, they aren't knocking the 800 series off their mantle as king, but they are solid speakers and perform quite well, much better than the 600 IMO. They sound nothing like the new 600 series. Those speakers have a more forward sound, and while ideal for movies, I think the CM series sounded much better with music. I think the thing with CM speakers is that they don't overwhelm you or grab you when listening initially. It has a much more subtle sound but the sound is clear and precise. It almost sneaks up on you. It sounds remarkable with female vocals especially. If you're looking for bass thumping aggressive speakers, then the CM's are not for you.

[Mig17]

Owners always think that they make the wise choice of speakers hey own

[btf1980]

Owners always think that they make the wise choice of speakers hey own

Yes, that is true. But i'm being objective here. I had these observations before I pulled the trigger on anything, so i'm not a biased owner or anything of the sort. The CM series are not the 600's in a real wood cabinet! They don't sound the same at all, that's my contention really. In fact, this is the first time i've heard anyone make that claim.

[wgriel]

Owners always think that they make the wise choice of speakers hey own

Of course!

But, if they've done the listening comparisons and picked what they liked best than they did make the wise choice

[cug]

Fair enough. For me that award goes to the 600 s3 series. You might just not like the CM:s, but if you've happened to audition them with cheap/mediocre electronics I can confidently say you haven't heard them at all. If that's not the case, to each their own.

As I said: it was a surprise, that I had the feeling they sounded not nearly as good as the stuff I had at home.

Electronics where RC-1082/RB-1072.

[Briz vegas]

Interesting thread guys.

I think what it says is that a company the size of B&W has the resources and market clout to put out a broad range of speakers that do not form a simple heirarchy. For about the same dollars you can get an 805 or a 703. If you don't walk out the door with one you will go with the other. Each has a different sonic signature aimed at a slightly different market. If you already own a 705 like I did you may not be happy with 2 steps up, maybe you need 3 steps before parting with your hard earned cash. Hence the 804s that I know and love. The heirarchy gets a little simpler with the 800s but even there they offer different balance in the sound to capture the fussy listener. For simply rich folk the decision is more about price and whether or not they like the Marlan head.

End of the day we are all at home happy with our purchase - or at least I am. I think from reading this post most of you guys are too.