Am I insane for even thinking about 802Ds?

[kiwidude]

First post and 8 years since I had my last HT setup so advice much appreciated...

I'm about to buy a whole setup from scratch after a long time out of the game. I rent a flat here in the UK, but plan to ultimately move back "down under" and have a no holds barred dedicated HT room.

However I don't know whether that will be in 2, 5 or 10 years time. So my conundrum is do I buy a low-end effectively throw away system now and start all over again when I move, or do I invest in some of my long term goal equipment like the 802D/HTM2D now even though I don't have the ideal room setup?

My flat lounge is roughly 19 ft square, of which 2/3rds is used for the TV area (so say a 19 ft x 12ft area). The flat seems to have great soundproofing in that I can hear none of my neighbours currently. But it is a flat after all so I won't be purchasing a sub nor will I be listening at any sort of high volumes to make sure that they don't come knocking on the door.

Will the 802D overwhelm this room to the point of sounding awful? As I rent there will be no acoustic adjustments I can make to it which I do appreciate is important to getting the best out of this gear.

Obviously at this point I have to make some sort of compromise - either equipment that is "too big" for the room, or a system that suits the room better but is in the long term more expensive as I end up discarding it.

There is another "middle ground" option I guess in that I buy a mid-range system that I could reuse in another room in the next house. But as I obviously have no idea as to how big that room might be compared to my current one or perhaps I may even want a minimalist in-wall setup etc that's a long shot.

What do you think guys - what would you do? A big part of me wants someone to tell me - "dude you are being insane, it would be a complete waste of money for now" so I can chop my budget by £20K+ and stop day-dreaming about this gear and drooling over the photos of your setups...

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

The 802Ds will sound fine in that room and you will probably get away without a centre.... However if you want full sorround sound consider smaller speakers.

Anything from a SCMS and 805S based systyem down to their Mini Theatre and LM based systems will do the job... The SCMS and 805S will be reusable in a larger system... The Mini Theatre and LM bases are just fun...

Go to a good dealer and work your way up.. You will know then what your compromise point is...

Geoff

[Algoods]

I have the same size room and I just purchased the 802D's. They sound great at low to moderate volume levels. I had 804 and 803D's in the same room and they sounded good as well, but the 802D's are in a different league.

Be sure you have a good amp and pre. I use Mac 501's w/ a c46 pre and they control the 802's very well. Classe is also a good match.

I'm doing 2 channel at the moment and don't miss the 5 ch set up.

[kiwidude]

Hi Geoff - Interesting suggestion on running a phantom centre channel for now. In fact combined with Algoods comments on running 2 channel you guys have given me another perspective on this which I hadn't even considered.

As I had a full surround system all those years ago I was just kind of blindly assuming I would go down that route again for this flat. Having had nothing but the sound out of my Sony CRT speakers for 8 years it wouldn't exactly kill me to not go full surround just yet - in fact there are a lot of advantages particularly when it comes to space & cabling convenience let alone price. That might allow my conscience to justify the cost of what would be a great music setup and clearly vastly improved tv/movie experience while probably saving £10K+ in speakers, amps, cabling & stands...

I guess the proof is in the listening as to whether I can cope without a centre channel in particular. As its mostly TV/sport I watch rather than movies nowadays and this isn't my long term room that might be less problematic than it at first sounds. Besides which - if I get fed up and "have to have one" then it is at least an incremental addition rather than replacing what I have bought.

Geoff, re your point about visiting a dealer. Yes I am hopefully having a demo session later this week to work through the various price point options. I was hoping this thread might help me in advance to write off serious consideration of something like the 802D to slap some sense into me but Algoods comments about the room size being workable put paid to that one. Perhaps the side by side comparisons will convince me to stick with lower end for now... we shall see.

I guess the amps/processing side of things that is probably the next big unknown. Can't say the idea of having giant monoblocks sitting on the floor of my lounge appeals that much - I have to balance sound quality with practicalities of flat size, aesthetics and risk of the cleaning lady knocking them around with the vacuum cleaner. Looking through that setup pictures thread it does indeed seem like Classe and McIntosh are the most popular choice, although not sure the latter is even available in the UK.

What sort of more "conservative" setups have people tried with their 802Ds? Perhaps I could buy with the intent of redeploying the amp I choose now to run a centre channel or rears in the future? Yes I will be asking the dealer and listening for myself - guess I'm just looking for more ammunition to reduce the options under consideration...

Thanks again for your responses, very much appreciated!

[sikoniko]

If you decide to go with the 802d's, IMO, you really need to make the investment on a good amp for them. Don't be cheap here. Its like buying a 'vette and putting a 4cyl 100hp engine in it.

[Algoods]

Like you KD I watch mostly TV shows and sports so I don't miss 5 ch. When I do play a DVD the 802D's do a very good job w/ bass and placing dialogue in the center.
I haven’t found any 5/7ch system that beats the sound quality of a good 2 ch system. Again if you go with the 802’s get a good amp (monoblocks if you can) and pre-amp.

[Kal Rubinson]

Like you KD I watch mostly TV shows and sports so I don't miss 5 ch. When I do play a DVD the 802D's do a very good job w/ bass and placing dialogue in the center.
I haven’t found any 5/7ch system that beats the sound quality of a good 2 ch system. Again if you go with the 802’s get a good amp (monoblocks if you can) and pre-amp.

Well, I definitely prefer the sound of my system in 5 channel mode to it in 2 channel mode but not because there are any quality differences. Only because multichannel is more realistic in its soundstaging.

Kal

[Joey_V]

You can make the 802D work for a room that size.

I say, if you have the funds and disposable income... and you have the other things in life in check at the moment, why not? Do it.

You live once and what's the point of saving something for later when you deserve that enjoyment now?

I know I must have sounded like a commercial, but that's my thought at the moment.

[RebelMan]

Well, I definitely prefer the sound of my system in 5 channel mode to it in 2 channel mode but not because there are any quality differences. Only because multichannel is more realistic in its soundstaging.

In all fairness to the OP you probably should qualify your statement with what you are using. Who wouldn't prefer a 5 channel system with three 802D upfront? An 802D center is quite a step up from an HTM2D or phantom. :W

[Algoods]

My multi channel experiences have been with home theater, not music (not a lot of Mch music in the stores these days). While movies always sounded good music was just alright. Unlike a good 2 channel system where you can really get into the sound. That said I’m pretty sure there are some 5 Ch systems that sound awesome (KR being one of them) if you have the floor space and the $$$.

[Kal Rubinson]

In all fairness to the OP you probably should qualify your statement with what you are using. Who wouldn't prefer a 5 channel system with three 802D upfront? An 802D center is quite a step up from an HTM2D or phantom. :W

Sure but his statement was pretty categorical. One can make a fair 2-to-5.1 comparison $ for $ and one can also make a fair 2-to-5.1 comparison with quality kept constant. Many people still maintain that stereo is a superior music medium but I do not. :T

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

My multi channel experiences have been with home theater, not music (not a lot of Mch music in the stores these days).

I have not bought music in brick-and-mortar stores in many years. The only way to see a good selection on-line.

While movies always sounded good music was just alright. Unlike a good 2 channel system where you can really get into the sound. That said I’m pretty sure there are some 5 Ch systems that sound awesome (KR being one of them) if you have the floor space and the $$$.

Hey, I would say the same about my small system which, at the moment, is:
Oppo DV980H
Integra DTC-9.8
Bryston 9B-STT
3 x Paradigm Studio 60
2 x Paradigm Studio 20
1 x Paradigm Servo15 (older model)
Not junk but not anything like the big system and not beyond what many people here enjoy.

Kal

[Algoods]

Kal,
You have a nice set up for HT.
I went through some HT gear over the years; B&W 600's, 7 & 9 nt's, 804N's and 803D's w/ Bryston, Rotel, BelCanto and Classe. I went with McIntosh a couple of years ago and now have 802D's 501 amps w/ a C46 pre; really enjoying the 2 ch music now. 5 ch is great for movies and I will pursue another 5 ch set up, but not with Mac and 800 series B&W's.

[RebelMan]

Sure but his statement was pretty categorical. One can make a fair 2-to-5.1 comparison $ for $ and one can also make a fair 2-to-5.1 comparison with quality kept constant. Many people still maintain that stereo is a superior music medium but I do not. :T

True stereo isn't limited to just two-channels. In fact the birth of the word was founded on the practice of using three-channels, as I am sure you already know. The point here being that I can appreciate your position. I suppose I could find myself in full support of the original definition if I could accommodate three identical speakers in my listening room and if the sources I used were mastered to support such an arrangement. Neither is the case and I don't own a Meridian. Oh well.

In any event, I don't believe you would feel as strongly about your position if your system lacked or compromised the additional speakers (C, LS, RS) to create the more realistic soundstage that you observe. No doubt that an HTM2D is a high caliber speaker, but it sounds nothing like an 802D and in the end that would have an impact on sound quality as well as sound staging. (In my experience with pair of 800D I am much better off with a phantom center than an HTM2D.) Of course I needn't tell you this, as an owner of three 802D you already knew. As for the OP, I felt some clarification from your point of view was in fair order. :P

[Briz vegas]

Kal
Don't you get annoyed when some silly mixing person randomly puts instruments in speakers at the back. Its really distracting when they do that - gimmicky. 2 channel allows you to concentrate on the performance. Music DVDs are good however as they stick with the music at the front - I love a good concert DVD in 5.1.

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal
Don't you get annoyed when some silly mixing person randomly puts instruments in speakers at the back. Its really distracting when they do that - gimmicky. 2 channel allows you to concentrate on the performance. Music DVDs are good however as they stick with the music at the front - I love a good concert DVD in 5.1.

Agreed. I recall a press event at the unveiling of SACD when a producer was allowed to introduce his new multichannel remastering of a classic jazz recording. Asked why he put the drums in the rear channels, he said, "Because we could and thought it a neat idea!" Sheeesh.

Kal

[RNKC]

Back to the question at hand ... my room is smaller than your 19 x 12 and I use N802 as my mains. I also have what I believe is now called an HTM4 (it was HTM2 when I got it) in the centre and N805 in the back. No sub yet but I don't really miss it.

As others have stated it's important to get a good amp. You will be doing a lot of listening at lower volumes so you need a good, detailed amp that doesn't need to be cranked up loud so you can hear what's going on. I use a Mark Levinson 432 for my mains and it's great!


Slightly off topic and somewhat silly question - but do UK and down under have the same plugs and voltage for electrical equipment?

[kiwidude]

Slightly off topic and somewhat silly question - but do UK and down under have the same plugs and voltage for electrical equipment?

Different plugs to Aus/NZ but the same voltage. So replacing the power cables should be all that is required, which should be no big deal?

Thanks to you and the others above for the continuing "encouragement" down this path of temptation... I think... lol.

And yes I understand it takes some serious amps to drive these speakers, I guess I was wondering what other options there were outside the "standard" McIntosh 501 and Classe CM400 monoblock options. I see Kal did a review with a Classe CA-2200, and another review covered the Mark Levinson 433 (plus RKNC just mentioned the 432). Anything else spring to mind?

The more options the better really in case I decide to go down the second hand route for the amps/processor. This is all such a niche market there isn't much of this stuff around. Strangely though like buying a car it all does seem to drop to half its value immediately after coming out of the dealer showroom so its going to be tempting to at least look in that direction. Even fewer people part with their 802Ds though so they would be new from the dealer...

Hopefully can sort that demo session out for later this week, just that annoying thing called a day job getting in the way at the moment.

[SoCalCM]

If you are considering the 802Ds, just buy them, they are absurdly good and way beyond anything less expensive, at any volume and in just about any reasonable size room. As for amps, I have a Classe 3200 and 3x802Ds (I believe the same set up as Kal). Anyway, IMHO this is the sweet spot for cost/benefit -- spending more you run into serious diminishing returns. They work well with a Krell 400xi that I have tried, too, for not much money. Anything less and the bass can get a little boomy, most receivers would likely be overmatched.