New Member, New 803Ds!

[Rosso_Corsa]

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker but have finally taken the next step and registered, partly motivated by my brand new pair of 803Ds which have arrived at my dealer, to be picked up tomorrow morning and I'm excited as heck!

A little history: new to forum, but no stranger to B&W. I used to have a full system of Nautilus 804s, Nautilus 805s, HTM2. I had to sell all of that to help pay for the 803Ds, but I am hoping it will be worth it. I'm also reverting to 2 channel, at least for now.

So I just wanted to say hi and will be posting pics of my unpacking and set up process tomorrow! The speakers are Rosenut.

Stay tuned and I look forward to chatting with all of you!

Sam

[joetama]

I hope you enjoy the 803D. They are a big step up IMO.

You'll have to let us know if you slept well or not. The night before I got my 703s I didn't sleep at all, then I spent the whole next day and night just listening to them. :lol:

[ShadowZA]

Welcome to the club, Sam.

Looking forward to pics of your new 803D's.

[RobP]

Welcome to the forum Sam, congrats on your new speakers!

[Rosso_Corsa]

Thanks for the warm welcome, gentlemen. They're here!


Big heavy boxes. >= 2 People to handle, says so right on the carton!


Opened up and greeted by manual, jumpers, foam plug and spikes.




I must say, the packaging is beautiful. Precisely made high density foams on both ends, ultra dense pressed-board pillars x 4, this is the stuff you mustn't throw away!


The anticipation is building!




Oh La La!


Can anyone tell me if this insert is new to the 800 series? This is brilliant because one problem I encountered previously with the Nautilus 804s (which I bought used) was that they arrived with grilles damaged in transit. This piece is invaluable to strengthen the section and cushion the wood and drivers against the grille.


This is where my heart starts to beat really fast!


And this is all the packing material you should retain for future storage or transport! Don't miss a single piece!

Some impressions so far:

- I've been gently listening to them for break-in and what I notice most
is the utter smoothness of the treble and midrange, without losing any
detail compared to the 804's alloy tweeter. It has the kind of highs
that I feel like I can listen to for hours and hours and never feel
any fatigue. 'Sweetness' is the word I think is appropriate.

- I love love love Rosenut. It was a bit of a leap of faith for me, being that pictures of Rosenut varies widely and I didn't like the examples at the dealer, but my salesman assured me that recent speakers were VERY red and very beautiful and he was right! In fact, I like this even better than my previous favorite finish, Red Cherry!

- The grilles are much, much better constructed than the Nautilus 804 grilles. Stronger frame, better plastics, more suitable shape. This was one glaring weakness in the Nautilus series for me.

- I love the packaging design. I am a huge geek for liking stuff like this, but I really enjoyed taking the speakers out and the quality of the foams and cardboard are outstanding. Much, much better than the flimsy stuff used to pack the Nautilus series.

Will post more pics and impressions soon! Thanks for reading!

[jack667]

Thanks for the unpacking photos. They look absolutely fantastic!

I've never been a huge fan of rosenut, but yours sure do look nice.

Interesting comment about the packaging - I noticed this when unpacking the 683s - they looked almost identical to the 803Ds inside the box - extremely well packed!

Seems like you're really enjoying them, and I am so very jealous!

Cheers

[Charles]

Beautiful! I know how you feel at the moment!! Enjoy!!!

[ShadowZA]

What a great feeling!!!

Beautiful pics! Beautiful sound!

Enjoy. :T :T :T

[joetama]

Beautiful man Beautiful...

When can we all come over and have a listen?

[georgev]

Absoluetly stunning.
Congrats

[Shyamalan]

Congratulations and thank you for the pics.

[Pedro]

Congrats!!

Its so suffering to put them out of box, but worth the job =D

We're all anxious to listen your opinions about the speakers, really beautiful. Definetely the Rosenut, and Cherry are the best option. THe Black to me dont represent the best colour =D

[Rosso_Corsa]

Thank you for all the kind words!

I left some soft white noise on them all night to speed up the break in and gave them more listening today. The tweeter is truly outstanding, so true and sweet and natural.

The other thing I'm noticing is that they're a little shy on bass at the moment, feeling like I'm getting less bass output than I had with the N804s. Of course, I have been going easy on them but I still feel I'm not getting the body slamming fireworks I heard at the dealer audition. My salesman tells me the bass drivers need quite a bit of time to break in to free up. Other owners, what are your experiences with this?


My camera turns the finish a sort of lipstick red indoors -- this isn't the actual colour. Previous pictures were more representative.

[trainCatcher]

Drool. I just short-circuited my keyboard. ;x(

Thanks for the pics! :T

[ShadowZA]

...
The other thing I'm noticing is that they're a little shy on bass at the moment, feeling like I'm getting less bass output than I had with the N804s. Of course, I have been going easy on them but I still feel I'm not getting the body slamming fireworks I heard at the dealer audition. My salesman tells me the bass drivers need quite a bit of time to break in to free up. Other owners, what are your experiences with this? ...

I'm sure that given a bit of break-in time your 803D's will deliver. I'm extremely satisfied with mine (I'm feeding them 250 watts of Krell).

Good luck.

[Charles]

I bet your room smells good about now.

[Pedro]

Rosso Corsa,

What amp are you using to drive the 803D´s? And what amp your dealer have used with them???

The amp cause diference. Ive heard last days at a friend house the 803D´s geared by Krell 400CX. We heard a track of a Solo Drumm (JK Drumm Improvisation - from XRCD FIM Supersound) and the bass almost blow the walls out, like we have turned on 2 SWs hehehe =D

[GregLett]

That was one heck of a show! There should be a cover charge

[RebelMan]

The other thing I'm noticing is that they're a little shy on bass at the moment, feeling like I'm getting less bass output than I had with the N804s. Of course, I have been going easy on them but I still feel I'm not getting the body slamming fireworks I heard at the dealer audition. My salesman tells me the bass drivers need quite a bit of time to break in to free up. Other owners, what are your experiences with this?

Rosso, thank you for the pictures. Nice job, and welcome! :T

The 803Ds should not be bass shy out of the box. Some break in time should be allowed to loosen up the drivers but bass should be plentiful from the start. It sounds like a possible wiring issue. You should double check the connections for proper and secure seating on both the speaker and amplifier ends. If you are not bi-wiring make sure the jumper cables are going in the correct direction and are well attached too.

What equipment was the dealer using? All else being equal in your system, the 803D should sound noticably fuller than your N804. But if you are comparing the 803D in your house to the dealer's then differences between equipment and room conditions will overrule.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Rosso, thank you for the pictures. Nice job, and welcome! :T

The 803Ds should not be bass shy out of the box. Some break in time should be allowed to loosen up the drivers but bass should be plentiful from the start. It sounds like a possible wiring issue. You should double check the connections for proper and secure seating on both the speaker and amplifier ends. If you are not bi-wiring make sure the jumper cables are going in the correct direction and are well attached too.

What equipment was the dealer using? All else being equal in your system, the 803D should sound noticably fuller than your N804. But if you are comparing the 803D in your house to the dealer's then differences between equipment and room conditions will overrule.

Thanks for the input, fellas. I've double checked my wiring so it's not that. I'm using an NAD T973 amp. The dealer was using CA-M400s so quite a bit step up from what I have.

At the dealer when I compared the 804S to the 803S and 803D, the 803D clearly surpassed the other two in terms of bass fullness and output and by a wide margin.

I wonder if it might be my amp not delivering enough power, control and current...

Sam

[RebelMan]

The dealer was using CA-M400s so quite a bit step up from what I have.

At the dealer when I compared the 804S to the 803S and 803D, the 803D clearly surpassed the other two in terms of bass fullness and output and by a wide margin.

I wonder if it might be my amp not delivering enough power, control and current...

Were all three speakers driven by the same gear? I had a pair of 803S that I drove with using the Rotel RSX-1056 and RB-1080. When I replaced the Rotel stuff with Classe', namely the CP-700 and CA-M400s the improvements were stagering. It was as if my 803S literally doubled their size and output. The 803D are thirsty for good clean power and they will require a top notch front end to perform at their peak. What are you using?

[Rosso_Corsa]

Were all three speakers driven by the same gear? I had a pair of 803S that I drove with using the Rotel RSX-1056 and RB-1080. When I replaced the Rotel stuff with Classe', namely the CP-700 and CA-M400s the improvements were stagering. It was as if my 803S literally doubled their size and output. The 803D are thirsty for good clean power and they will require a top notch front end to perform at their peak. What are you using?

All three speakers at the dealer were driven by the CA-M400s, yes.

I'm using an NAD T973 power amp, please see my previous post for the link with info on my amp.

You are about the 5th person who has told me he has seen staggering improvements going from Rotel/NAD/average mid-fi stuff to Classe for their B&W speakers. I've been very skeptical, but I'm starting to think there might be something to it.

Sam

[RebelMan]

You are about the 5th person who has told me he has seen staggering improvements going from Rotel/NAD/average mid-fi stuff to Classe for their B&W speakers. I've been very skeptical, but I'm starting to think there might be something to it.

The results are real but it takes a great (Classe') pre/pro AND amp to get there. Classe' amps alone will not cut it.

[Pedro]

Rosso Corsa,

Based in the comments of Rebel Man, i must agree.

My friend have his 803D powered by Gamut D200amp and C2R pre amp. After we trade it to a Krell KCT preamp and Krell FPB400CX the sound turned to another level. The bass really have came alive with a power that my friend got crazy, and he said that never had listen that from 803D. He agreed this speaker, gets better with MORE powerful and refined electronic.

To me, these speakers need an amp at least 400Wx2 to output their full bass. An 2X200 amp like Gamut D200, sounds great but dont output the enough from them. And based on that your Nad 5.1, surely isnt at the same level, so i would sugest to you an upgrade in the future

[gostan]

Rosso:

Congrats. And welcome to the Diamond club.

I really enjoyed your pictures since I packed my 803D's (and all of the rest of my equipment) back into their boxes Tuesday. All were moved to the new condo last evening. Setup today.

All I can say is that my new listening room is far superior to my old room. I am in diamond nirvana. I am sure that a few hours of break-in will bring out the best in your new speakers.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Thanks Pedro and Rebelman. It might be time to do an in-home audition for some Classe gear.

Gostan, glad to hear you've gotten a better room. My listening room needs work as well and I've purchased some absorbent foam to make it less resonant. Now to find a way to make it not look hideously ugly!

Here are a couple shots of the jewel.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Guys,

I bought home the Classe C-AP2100 for an in-home demo today and BOOM, my bass is back. These speakers now approximate what I heard at the dealer when I auditioned the 803Ds for the first time. This is the experience I paid for! I can't believe this amp is only 100 watts per channel!

So this proves that my NAD and Denon amps were nowhere near good enough for these 803Ds. But is Classe the only amp that can do it? He wants $3800 for the demo CAP-2100 unit and that's a lot of money.

I was thinking of getting a Rotel RB-1090 (380w x 2) which is only half that price... it's supposed to be discontinued but the dealer says he can still get them for me. Or even the RB-1080 which is only $1k.

[RebelMan]

I bought home the Classe C-AP2100 for an in-home demo today and BOOM, my bass is back. These speakers now approximate what I heard at the dealer when I auditioned the 803Ds for the first time. This is the experience I paid for! I can't believe this amp is only 100 watts per channel!

So this proves that my NAD and Denon amps were nowhere near good enough for these 803Ds. But is Classe the only amp that can do it? He wants $3800 for the demo CAP-2100 unit and that's a lot of money.

I was thinking of getting a Rotel RB-1090 (380w x 2) which is only half that price... it's supposed to be discontinued but the dealer says he can still get them for me. Or even the RB-1080 which is only $1k.

That's good news RC. Keep in mind that the CAP-2100 is an integrated amplifier which cannot be compared to a dedicated amplifier. Why? Because it includes a pre-amplifier and power amplifier in one package, the equivallent of the CP-500 and CA-2100 pairing. Remember what I said of the importance that the pre/pro and amp combination provides. Neither the RB-1080 nor the the RB-1090 will compare favorably to the CAP-2100. The CAP-2100 has the guts to drive those 803D provided you drive them carefully and it's the most affordable entry into the Classe' house sound. :T

[Stevebez]

I had a RB-1080 driving the 803D's and it did a decent job. I thought it was lacking when the spl got moved a little higher and decided to get a RB-1092 taking the plunge into the D-class domain.

Well the speakers came alive and now have plenty of power. The soundstage is quite different tho ... almost as if the sound is much closer to you and in your face rather than at the speakers, but still refined. My thinking was if I was going to go for a large Toroidal I would wait for a Classe offering rather than go Rotel at this stage.

I did not compare to a RB-1090 and this comaprison still rages but honestly the 1092 does it job very nicely indeed.

Next stop will be Classe... once I win the lotto.

[Pedro]

Rosso Corsa,

What the gear that you listened with 803D at the dealer, was exactly de CAP2100:??

Anyway i congrat you, and as we have talked, the gear is so much important to these speakers.

[Dmantis]

Breath taking. I love it.

[jack667]

God, all these photos sure make me tempted to upgrade. I think I will move to 803S next!

[RebelMan]

God, all these photos sure make me tempted to upgrade. I think I will move to 803S next!

They sure do! I have a pair of 800D but those photos make me want to get a pair of 803D too. I never tire of their exquisite beauty. Simply stunning IMO!

[jack667]

Agreed! and please don't talk about your 800Ds near me, it only makes the pain worse!! ahahaha

[beden1]

I've purchased several Classe pieces on Audiogon with great success. Just keep looking at their site for good clean used stuff that comes available. You can end up getting much higher level gear for near the same prices as you would pay for new/lesser quality offerings.

I'm currently using a Classe CP-500 pre-amp and a Classe CAV-150 to drive my 803Ds and they sound wonderful. I got them through Audiogon.

For example, this listing may do you just fine for a number of years.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1199029981

[Pedro]

Beden and Classe owners,

I also own the 803Ds and need an amp to them. Few days ago, i´ve listened them using KRELL KCT+FPB400CX. Appreciated the result, great dynamic, and EXCELENT bass. I still think that a Classe combo CP500 + CA-M400 (1X400 monoblock) could be better, but i am worry about the bass in Classe. Do you think classe CA-M400, has equal or better bass than Krell FPB400CX? I listened often to Rock, Hard/metal music, and songs that requires a lot of macrodynamic and bass.

Thanks in advance.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Yeah, I've been scouring both Agon and eBay for the right Classe amp. I just missed out on a used C-AP2100 for only 2200USD!

How are the older classe amps? Like the CA-300 and CA-301? Basically the pre-B&W takeover stuff. Will they drive my 803Ds with equal authority?

[beden1]

Yeah, I've been scouring both Agon and eBay for the right Classe amp. I just missed out on a used C-AP2100 for only 2200USD!

How are the older classe amps? Like the CA-300 and CA-301? Basically the pre-B&W takeover stuff. Will they drive my 803Ds with equal authority?

I'm not sure about the CA Series. In speaking with Classe, they said my CAV-150 amp was designed by their current head of the design engineering department. My B&W/Classe dealer said (in his opinion), that amps have not made any measureable performance improvements for a number of years, and that mine should be a keeper.

You may want to call Classe and discuss it with them.

[beden1]

Beden and Classe owners,

I also own the 803Ds and need an amp to them. Few days ago, i´ve listened them using KRELL KCT+FPB400CX. Appreciated the result, great dynamic, and EXCELENT bass. I still think that a Classe combo CP500 + CA-M400 (1X400 monoblock) could be better, but i am worry about the bass in Classe. Do you think classe CA-M400, has equal or better bass than Krell FPB400CX? I listened often to Rock, Hard/metal music, and songs that requires a lot of macrodynamic and bass.

Thanks in advance.

I can't speak for the M400 or the newer Krell amps. I had a Krell KAV250 (250 watts per channel) amp first hooked up to my 803Ds. To my ears, the bass was more dynamic than my Classe amp. But, I found the Krell mids and highs to be too uneasy to listen to for extended periods, using at the time, a Pioneer Elite receiver as the pre-pro. Initially using the same receiver with my Classe amp, I found the mids and highs were smoother/sweeter, yet defined . . . and the bass was solid, but less exciting than the Krell.

But, since adding the Classe pre-amp, I've found the bass has become more exciting than it was with my Pioneer Elite/Classe amp.

I think you need to get responses from those who have auditioned a direct comparison, and apples vs. apples.

[RebelMan]

Agreed! and please don't talk about your 800Ds near me, it only makes the pain worse!! ahahaha

No worries Jack. Take stock in your 683 as they could be considered the proverbial giant killers. 8O

(Okay, maybe that's a bit of a stretch but hey I'm trying... :T)

[RebelMan]

I also own the 803Ds and need an amp to them. Few days ago, i´ve listened them using KRELL KCT+FPB400CX. Appreciated the result, great dynamic, and EXCELENT bass. I still think that a Classe combo CP500 + CA-M400 (1X400 monoblock) could be better, but i am worry about the bass in Classe. Do you think classe CA-M400, has equal or better bass than Krell FPB400CX? I listened often to Rock, Hard/metal music, and songs that requires a lot of macrodynamic and bass.

Krell amplifiers excell in dynamics and bass output but the Classe' amplifiers are no slouch. The have the rythmic speed and pace needed to keep up with the kind of music you listen to. While I have not made any direct comparisons between the FBP400CX and CA-M400, in other indirect comparisons I found the latter capable of rocking with the best of them. Here's a detailed writeup comparing the CA-M400 to the FBP-350 and the ML 336 you may find helpful.

[Gump]

They sure do! I have a pair of 800D but those photos make me want to get a pair of 803D too. I never tire of their exquisite beauty. Simply stunning IMO!

James,

If the feeling overwhelms you let me know....I'll arrange a swap.

Rosso_Corsa,
I have found that bass performance fluctuates greatly depending on the source material---even on the same CD----depending on the engineering of each individual song. Best of Bonnie Raitt, Complete Clapton are a couple of examples. Bass sounds light on several songs and then rattles the windows on others.

The songs that are light on bass I turn to my friend Mr. Rel :T 2.1ch via my Mcintosh MX-135 processor.

I've had my 803D's for a couple of years now and contrary to Mr. King the thrill is still here. Your unpacking pictures took me back to when I first got them and how exciting it was to set them up.

My Mcintosh MC-205 drives my 803D's with aplomb. I would not recommend any less than 200watts for these speakers. The Classe CA-5200 (or CA-2200) is excellent and has very controlled and precise bass.

Have fun and enjoy the ride!