New B&W Nautilus Range

[Aussie Geoff]

Updated as of Friday 7 January 2005,

This header entry for the thread will be maintained as a summary of what is known about the new B&W 800 Nautilus series. I’ll update periodically with the new / changed information (in BLUE). We'll keep it a Sticky while there is lots of interest and then drop it back to a normal thread after that...

B&W Certainly are proud of their new speakers!

Promising an even greater advance in performance than was heralded in 1997 by the introduction of the Nautilus™ 800 Series, these remarkable loudspeakers redefine the reproduction of recorded sound.

and

"Yes prices of models go higher but the technology is very real and the sound reproduction is pushed to a new level, in fact the reality is that a new 803D will now out perform an current 802. B&W has used it's original numbering format but the new models are not one for one.

There is no speaker company in the world today that is doing the kind of acoustical research and then bringing that work to market where end users can enjoy it. The amount of money invested in the last six years for this line is enormous to the point where there is the new cabinet factory in Denmark just to make the cabinets that is class leading. Every feature and function of this new line by B&W is remarkable and backed by fundamental quantifiable R&D."

Summary highlights:

• Available globally on 15 January 2005
• Significantly broader range of models
• Standard speakers markedly better than the previous Signature series, for only a small step up in the price for the previous standard range (makes the price rises seem so much better!)
• Diamond series even better again in quality with the new tweeter!
• All new bass drivers based on having a sandwich construction using carbon fibre skins and a Rohacell® core.
• Upgraded FST midranges using the technology from the Signature 800 (aluminium phase plug and neodymium magnet system) and a further improved chassis design.
• Standard tweeter based on the previous Signature series Aluminium dome (response up to 50Kz)
• Diamond Tweeter in the D series range offering even better performance up to 70 Khz
• Both Tweeters frequency low end frequency response improved allowing a first order capacitive filter for the tweeter, giving smoother high frequency integration and phase response.
• Upgraded crossovers using higher quality components
• Cabinet designs based on an improved version of the signature series (e.g. continuous curved back panels and even greater rigitity bracing.

Model overview and pricing (US $):

• 800D $20,000 a pair - A 3-way system comprising 2x 250mm (10 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and a 1x 25mm (1 in) diamond dome tweeter. Contains several unique refinements, most notably the ultimate in crossover capacitors using silver and gold metals.
• 801D $16,000 a pair - A 3-way system, comprising 1x 380mm (15 in) Rohacell bass driver, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and 1x 25mm 1 in) diamond dome tweeter.
• 802D $12,000 a pair - A 3-way system, it comprises 2x 200mm (8 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) diamond dome tweeter.
• 803D $8,000 a pair - The 803D is a completely new speaker introduced as result of market feedback with the aim of providing something of the performance levels of the flagship 800 models but using a more conventional looking cabinet. Of slightly larger dimensions than the 803S, the 803D is a 3-way system comprising 3x 180mm (7 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) diamond dome tweeter.
• 803S $5,500 a pair - A 3-way system comprising 2x 180mm (7 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeter. The 803S’s cabinet, and internal Matrix, have been revised to increase stiffness, which has resulted in an increase in weight of 11kg (25 lb) over the previous 803 model.
• 804S $4,000 a pair – The entry-level 3-way model in the 800 Series and comprises 2x 165mm (6.5 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST mid driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeter.
• 805S $2,500 a pair - Builds on the huge success of the Signature 805, offering greatly improved performance from the same cabinet design. It is a 2-way system comprising 1x 165mm (6.5 in) Kevlar bass/midrange driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeter,
• SCMS $2,200 a pair - Based on the 805S and designed to offer 800 Series performance from an on-wall location. It comprises 1x 165mm (6.5 in) Kevlar bass/midrange driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) baffle-mounted alloy dome tweeter.
• DS8 $3,000 a pair - A new rear channel speaker designed for both dipole or monopole operation, selectable via a 12V trigger or mechanical switch. It comprises 1x 165mm (6.5 in) Kevlar bass/midrange driver, 2x 100mm (4 in) Kevlar midrange drivers and 3x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeters.
• HTM1D $8,000 each - The new flagship centre channel of the 800 Series. Referred to internally as the ‘Hummer’, it, for the first time, offers the Marlan head unit of the flagship 800 models in a centre channel. It comprises 3x 200mm (8 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) diamond dome tweeter.
• HTM2D $4,000 each - A new model offering the diamond tweeter in a more conventional cabinet. It comprises 2x 180mm (7 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) diamond dome tweeter.
• HTM3S $2,500 each – Similar to outgoing Nautilus HMT1 and comprises 2x 165mm (6.5 in) Rohacell bass drivers, 1x 150mm (6 in) Kevlar FST driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeter.
• HTM4S $1,300 each - Builds on the outgoing Nautilus HTM2 and is near identical acoustically to the 805S. It comprises 1x 165mm (6.5 in) Kevlar mid/bass driver and 1x 25mm (1 in) alloy dome tweeter.
• ASW875 $4,000 each - (1x 380mm / 15 in) Rohacell bass driver, coupled to a 1000w power amplifier and B&W’s digital room correction system.
• ASW865 $3,200 each - (1x 300mm / 12 in) Rohacell bass driver, coupled to a 1000w power amplifier and B&W’s digital room correction system.
• ASW825 $2,500 each - Identical to the outgoing ASW800, except for the upgrade of a 300mm (12 in) Rohacell cone driver.

Some useful links:

• B&W's Development White Paper which is full of the most interesting information on the technology improvements accross the new range.
• Copy of B&W’s Press Release which is well worth reading
• Article in Stereophile by Kalman Rubinson (technical features - not listening!) Note According to Kalman, he doesn't expect to get a review sample until January 2004...
• Article in Portuguese LINK a review / pictures of the new range which has been translated to English automatically using Google

Some comments on mixing and matching:

One of the design goals that B&W had for the new Nautilus range was to preserve the investment made by existing owners by allowing “mix and matching”. To support this, the new range deliberately retained the same visual look and aesthetics as the previous range. With the Nautilus range already being extremely neutral, maintaining a compatible sonic signature was also a natural outcome.

The new Standard or Diamond series front speakers can be added to an existing surround sound system using older model Nautilus rear speakers. Equally the new Standard range surround speakers (SCMS and DS8 ) can be added to systems with older model Nautilus front speakers. ASW subwoofers are fully compatible across the new and old Nautilus ranges.

B&W do, however recommend that the front speakers are maintained of the same series wherever possible to maintain a seamless soundstage. Recommended combinations are:
1) 800D or 801D or 802D with HTM1D
2) 802D or 803D with HTM2D
3) 803S or 804S with HTM3S
4) 804S with HTM4S

So we don't have to replace everything to buy the new range

Some FAQ:

• Will B&W be providing upgrades for existing owners? - No too much has changed and the cost of the all new drivers, crossover and speaker mountings would not be worth it.
• Are they really that much better? - Apparently so - B&W and a few select people who have heard them are very confident that the standard models in the new range are substantially better than even the Signature Series in the current range
• When can I hear them? - Some dealers (USA and UK) will have demo stock by the new year for orders for delivery 15 January 2005. Manufacturing of the old models stopped around November 2004 and B&W have been working on stocks of the new models to allow dealers who commit to have initial stock shipped for then.

Geoff

[weijst]

The new series will:

• be approximately 10% more expensive than the current range... :x

[sikoniko]

I called my local guy and told him about me wanting to buy the SCM1's and that I heard about new stuff coming out and wasn't sure if I should jump or hold out. He said he would call the regional b&w rep and try and get some info for me to help aid in my purchase and call me back tomorrow.

[Phil Rose]

I read on another forum that the press will be hearing about then new "stuff" at B&W meeting on November 17. So, wait a couple of weeks and all will be revealed.

[sikoniko]

My dealer was finally able to get ahold of his rep and get back with me. What he told me was that there was no solid information to the reps yet, that b&W is keeping it all in house until the big announcement November 18th.

What the rep has heard is nothing like we have heard before. the speculation is that the new 800 series are a complete redesign and such a big steup up in quality that there will be a dramatic price increase as well. I asked him if it was the CT8 he was referring to and he said no, this is the new nautilus stuff.

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

Interesting... B&W are being smart - we have 3 quite different stories being spread at once by earnest B&W representatives:

• The replacement 800 series may not be released until after 2006... etc
• We will be releasing a series 2 of the 800 series in January 2005
• The new 800 series will be a complete redesign...

I guess 18 November will tell the tale!

Geoff

[sikoniko]

I think it is safe to say that the replacements will be hear sooner than later.

[KEF]

Hey Guys

Out of curiosity, what is the typical cycle life of any of these lines?

I bought a pair of N804s a few months ago and I am planning to trade up to the new equivalent N802s once the new line is released.

I am just curious how long the existing line has been on the market -

Cheers,
Keith

[DrBoom]

The current nautilus line was launched in 1998, so almost 7 years ago.
The original Model Nautilus is even older, from 1993

[KEF]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I had planned to go to the N803s first, but if the new line less than 12 months down the road, I may just hold out and make the direct jump to the new 802s.

Too many upgrades, not enough time / cash....

Cheers,
Keith

[uncle_git]

This is rather handy as I'm planning on my first HT install sometime next year - I had decided on the 802's for the fronts - but if there are new toys coming....

I will probably have a listen to both and see if the price differential is worth it to me - hopefully there will be some nice discounts on the currnet line...

[DrBoom]

The only problem I see whenever B&W releases a new line, is that the old one is immediately discontinued and there is no way a store can order one for you if they don't have it in stock anymore.
At least that's the way it is over here.
Let's say you go and listen to the new 802, don't like it for some reason or don't think it's worth the price difference, and would prefer the current 802.
Most stores over here don't have a stock on the 802 and upwards, and they wouldn't be able to order one anymore either once the new line is released.
That's the way it went with the CDM-NT's as well.

[zpanky]

The only problem I see whenever B&W releases a new line, is that the old one is immediately discontinued and there is no way a store can order one for you if they don't have it in stock anymore.

I think that this is because the new series are intentionally not made available for sale to the public until the older models are substantially sold. When the new models come out, old models are heavily discounted. Nobody wants to carry old inventory to support bargain hunters. A local dealer told me that when the Paradigm S3's came out, they were not allowed to be on the showroom floor until the S2's were sold. So, B&W is not alone here, and I would suspect most major manufacturers follow the same approach.

[sikoniko]

I am trying not to think about it too much.. if they say men think about sex every 7 seconds, im trying to limit my thought on b&w to every 15...

I am not exactly sure if I understand why B&W would make the new line at any considerable price difference. It would alienate those who want to have nautilus level, but can't afford the top end stuff.

As far as the new line, I am going to buy SCM1's if there is no economical replacement in the new series and I asked my dealer if after the announcement he thought they would go away if I could put a deposit on them and he could hold them in his inventory. He also said B&W doesnt discount their speakers. They have enough demand that they don't need to.

[aarsoe]

Some more stuff on the rumor side. According to an interview done in HiFi+ (UK magazine) with the designers of the 800 range, they are working on new subwoofers as well as new center speakers that matches the top end of the 800 range. This interview is almost 6 months old, so I am guessing we will be seeing new centers and subs..

[gostan]

A new Nautilus line or Nautilus anniversary line of speakers is certainly an exciting thought.

Another line of thought is that newer is not always better (I still question the sound of the 7 series when compared to the comparable cdm's) (although we are speaking of the flagship line of B&W speakers), but newer is usually more expensive, and the existing nautilus speakers are already very pricey.

I for one know that my 803's and htm1 are still breaking in, so maybe a new Nautilus line will allow a discounted pair of rear surrrounds to replace my cdm cnt1's.

Stan

[Ray]

Hi,

I was just thinking about the new Nautilus, and why B&W isn't waiting until their anniversary. I don't know how the Nautilus was introduced, but could it be that B&W will not introduce every model, lets say only the new 805, 804 and 803? And in 2006, their anniversary, the rest of the line?

Or maybe, they will introduce a new line in the 800 serie, or start with the 900 serie?

And why not a 701 and 702?

So, we just don't know, and have to wait...

Ray

[Claude D D]

If you like the sound of the current Nautilus just buy them.If or when a new series comes out there will most likely be a price increase as well.Plus what if you don't like the sound of the new models as much?If you do like the sound of the new models better the current N series has a large following and holds its value very well.They can usually be sold with little or no loss.Just food for thought.

[sikoniko]

I was thinking the closer we got to the day of announcement, the more we would hear, but it seems that b&w is doing a good job at keeping quiet. I am resolved to just get the SCM1's and not worry about the new series, since I am so close to having a complete system in this series, but I am going to wait until january, and buy a new tv durring the holiday sales but it is still exciting to see what is coming down the pike.

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

Sticking with matching generation SCM1 Sounds very sensible...

The next generation SCM1's could be the "thin edge of the wedge" to replace your 803s, HTM1, and ASW850

Likely to put a strain on the relationship with your partner and plans for a new house etc...!!

Geoff

[sikoniko]

Two days to go. Any ideas on how the announcement will be made? It took them a while to update the photos on their website to include the 700 series...

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

Typically B&W and othe larger companies issue press releases, some of which come electronically and will start appearing on the web sites for specialist forums and supplier like this example HERE

They also (sometimes) Email information to registers customers on their web site. I sporadically get information from them about new products... - but this is quite unreliable...

PS - I can see that the new house/appartment may be "drifting away" as the tempatation grows...

Geoff

[sikoniko]

no. my course is set and my sails are full. I cannot deny though that curiosity killed the cat! I hope we get pictures to drool all over...

What I can't wait for is january when I bring home my scm1's!!

[uncle_git]

From another board I lurk on -

Interesting this. I spoke to a guy today about buying his speakers. He mentioned he was upgrading to some new B&W's that are coming out. According to this guy, his friend works in a hifi shop and is taking him to the launch.

He mentioned the series was going to be called 'diamond' as the tweeters have actual diamonds, he was interested in the 803 'diamonds'.

[zpanky]

Diamonds? This will be great for WAF, because now I can ask her if she would like some more diamonds. Presto, instant approval. This is great! I really hope its true.

[greggz]

Actually, though uncommon, the diamond tweeter is not new. The Avalon Acoustics Eidolon Diamond and Sentinel speakers have diamond tweeters.

I believe this is the tweeter they use...

http://www.soniccraft.com/Drivers/Accuton/d206.htm

[edit] Here is a link with more info on that driver

http://www.accuton.com/e/data/products/d_drivers/D20/e_D20-6.html

[sikoniko]

I just spoke to my dealer to ask what he was expecting in the way of an announcement tomorrow. He said probably just a fax.

He did say further though that the rep doesnt believe the current nautilus's will go away, that this new series is just a step up. purely speculation. We will find out tomorrow.

[DrBoom]

I would find that very hard to believe, I don't think there is a large market out there for a complete range of speakers that start from let's say $5000 and upwards.
If they're planning to make a series which includes things like the current 801 and 800, but a step-up model, I don't think that's going to be a big hit.
So I highly doubt that it will be a step-up series, instead of a replacement for the current 800 series.

About the diamond tweeters, those are rediculously expensive, the Accuton tweeter sells for around $2500 per piece and I think only Avalon uses them in the Eidolon Diamond and the Sentinel.
I can't think of any other brands that use diamond tweeters.
Hopefully we'll know something tomorrow

[sikoniko]

The reason why he thought they would be a step up is because there is supposed to be a dramatic price jump from the current nautilus to this new stuff. It would be kind of cool if they sold an upgrade kit for the current nautilus owners to 'mod' their speakers with these new tweeters if they desired. Of course thats if diamonds are what is being used.

They obviously think there is some kind of market for high rollers, because they are making the CT8 series which is 50$k for the full setup...

[Mark_C.]

I would find that very hard to believe, I don't think there is a large market out there for a complete range of speakers that start from let's say $5000 and upwards.

Remember, this is B&W we're talking about; a company that purchased Classe and promptly produced a redesigned line that easily doubles the price of the old line, which in and of itself was already out of the reach of most.

My dealer told me today that mum is the word until CES in January. B&W doesn't want to wreck current Nautilus sales with info regarding a new or improved line. He pulled a Sgt. Schultz on me. "I know nothing.''

[sikoniko]

Well, It is noon here (EST) which means it is 5:00pm GMT. I guess nothing is getting announced, or it just hasn't made it to the mass media yet...

[Phil Rose]

Post by Kal Rubinson on Audio Asylum

New N line. Top of line with new polycrystalline diamond tweeters. All get new woofer diaphragms and crossovers. Very wide model line-up.
You might be able to get N802s for $4k/pr but only older used pairs. Prices are higher for the diamond set.

Kal

[uncle_git]

Anyone get any prices or details on the range yet ?

Cosmetically will they be similar to the current cabinets ?

On the bright side - all the WAF problems are solved instantly - when was the last time in recorded history a woman said no to bringing more diamonds into the house ?
:W

[greggz]

On the bright side - all the WAF problems are solved instantly - when was the last time in recorded history a woman said no to bringing more diamonds into the house ?
:W

Au contraire. Just try explaining to your wife that you are buying diamonds for your stereo, not her.

[junior77blue]

Just got off the phone with my dealer, supposedly owner is on the flight back from NY seminar. His only comments were that they look virtually the same but inside are completely different and a LOT better. He should know complete details tommorow afternoon....(EST).

They are already discounting the 800 series demo models...

[aphexist]

So I gather this is an update to the current Nautilus range rather than a new series.

[uncle_git]

Any indication of expected MSRP's on the new units ?

How painfull is the price increase going to be ?

[DrBoom]

According to B&W's tradition you should expect at least 20% increase in price, probably more if they have in fact upgraded to diamond tweeters.
The 700 series are about 20% more allready than the CDM-NT's were, so I think it's going to be more for the Nautilus range.
The increase from the Matrix Series 3 to the Nautilus series was 50% or somewhere in that region, but that was a huge leap forward in cabinetry and everything else as well.

[Phil Rose]

I asked Kal about availability and this is his response.

They said, "Available now." (NT) - Kal Rubinson

[uncle_git]

From Kal @Audio Asylum -

The N803D has diamond tweeter and 3 7" woofers ($4Keach).
The N803S has aluminum tweeter and only 2 7" woofers ($2750each).
The N805S is $1250 each.

Which probably puts the N802D at about $5500 each.... so yes a sizeable price jump.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,
And we have more

No Sigs mentioned. N800D, N801D, N802D, N803D, N803, N804, N805 plus HTM1D, NHTM2D, HTM3, HTM4, DS8, SCM and ASW825. DSP-EQed subs ASW865 and ASW875 to come at CES. (D= diamond tweeter)

Try HERE for the Audio Asylum Thread

Re the prices it is interesting:

• Old N805 = $1000 each - new = $1250 each (25% or $250)
• Old N803 = $2500 each - new = $2750 each (10% or $250)
• New 803D = $4000 each = $1500 more thant original = 60%)

I.E Those diamond tweeters add $1250 each to the cost and the improved woofers and crossover add $250 each to the cost

PS Make mine a 803D with a HTM1D - if (gasp) I can afford it!

Geoff

[sikoniko]

I was wondering why there are so many center channel options..

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

My best guess is that they are the rumoured larger centre channels matching the 801 and 802 series speakers. I wonder if they have realigned so HTM1 - 801, HTM2 = 802, HTM3 = 803 etc..l

PS - I have contacted Stephen Baker the B&W Product Support Manager and expect to get some info / PDF brochures from him next week which I will post if it is not on their website by then...

Geoff

[sikoniko]

I sent an email to b&w yesterday about the availability of the current SCM1 with the new model and this was the reply:

A new 800 Series was announced. While specific details on the models are not yet available, your dealer should be receiving this information soon. The new models will not be shipping until after the new year, so the current NSCM1 will still be available until that point at least.

[Andrew Pratt]

I got a little inside info on the new models this morning that I thought I could share with you guys.

"Yes prices of models go higher but the technology is very real and the sound reproduction is pushed to a new level, in fact the reality is that a new 803D will now out perform an current 802. B&W has used it's original numbering format but the new models are not one for one.

There is no speaker company in the world today that is doing the kind of acoustical research and then bringing that work to market where end users can enjoy it. The amount of money invested in the last six years for this line is enormous to the point where there is the new cabinet factory in Denmark just to make the cabinets that is class leading. Every feature and function of this new line by B&W is remarkable and backed by fundamental quantifiable R&D."