New B&W Nautilus Range

[Recruit]

Jonesy805 - Thankyou for the reply and also an excellent rundown on both models, i am really looking forward to getting them now and i am sure once fully run in will sound superb and i am sure you will like youre's too...

Thanks again

John

[sikoniko]

I heard the 805s's today. They sound great! Uncle Sam is sending me some money soon and it has gotten me to thinking about one last thing... heheh. Do I upgrade my 804's to the new series 803s's and have a mismatched center (current htm1) or try and go for the gusto and see if he will wheel and deal me a pair of N802's?

Unfortunately, I have no way to listen to the 803's so it would be sight unseen, but I do like the 802's. The 802's are more money though and would stretch me awful thin for a few months.

any suggestions?

[Twincam]

802!

[jlee]

>a half and I actually love them. I mean really, whats not to love.

The only complaint I have with the N805 is that they have a bit of midbass coloration that tends to color voices. This is apparent only when comparing to the Nautilus speakers with the FST midrange which do not do this.

> The new 805(S) are not miles better than the old N805 but they have a more life like sound. I noticed that the bottom end is a little more tune full but the extention is roughly the same. I was listenting to some big bass jazz tracks and I notice that the bass had a little more body on the new 805(S)version. This could be attributed to the new crossover and stiffer box. The

That totally makes sense based on the distortion specs of the 805S. From what I see, there is no extra extension, just higher quality bass to the same depth of bass. That is essentially what you described when you said "more tuneful bass" One more reason this is likely so is because of the bigger stronger magnet, which will control the bass a little better. I also noticed the crossover is now at 4kHz instead of 3Khz, which I like. This makes it consistent across the Nautilus range. I found that the old crossover point made the N805 a bit of an orphan in terms of matching it's sound with the rest of the Nautilus line in multichannel setups.

Thanks for the informative review. :T

[jonesy805]

Getting the New 805's Tonight

Jonesy805 - Thankyou for the reply and also an excellent rundown on both models, i am really looking forward to getting them now and i am sure once fully run in will sound superb and i am sure you will like youre's too...

Thanks again

John

Hey Recruit:
I will be purchasing the new 805(S) tonight. After a week and a half of listening I have decided to buy them today. I will let you know how they react to my gear and my living room. I am going to tell my dealer to hang on to my old ones for about two weeks before he tries to sell them. Who knows I might buy them back from him and add them to my theatre system.

Anyone can tell I am having issues letting the old ones go. I had a four hour listening session last night. It was my way of saying good bye. I have to say that the old N805's never sounded better to me. Last night reminded me why I like book shelf speakers soo much. The sweet midrange and the famous Nautilus tweeter made all the artists that I played last night seem like they were right in my living room with me. Most people will say when equipment is on the chopping block it always sounds better than usual.

Despite the differences of the new and the old 805's I still like the forwardness of the old (N) tweeter. I'm not sure if many will agree with me but I guess that's what I will miss about my old 805's the most.

I will keep you posted.

[captzerg]

Demo'd the 801D

I listened to the 801D's at my local dealer here in Sacramento (Northern Cal). They were not broken in and right out of the box they had phenomenal transparency and clarity. They did not carry the 801 in the past and were not a big fan of it. One of the sales guys told me he'd have to get a real job so he can buy a pair . The other one who I have worked with for about 1 1/2 years in building my two channel system is seriously considering getting the 801D. He wasn't that impressed with the old one compared to what he had and is now shocked to think he wants to replace what he has with the 801D, especially right out of the box.

The 801D's were hooked up to a T+A PA 1530R amp at 170 watts channel. And the T+A 1240 R CD player. I am not sure which Transparent cables were used, but they were on the upper end. I also demo'd the 801D's with a Marantz SACD player and it was like wine it was so nice. The Marantz (sorry didn't get the model) isn't as nice a red book player as the T+A, but Diana Krall's SACD (Love Scenes) was absolutely remarkable on it.

I listened to Harry Belfonte: Live at Carngie Hall, Diana Krall: Love Scenes and Cleveland Orchestra: Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition and DiMeola, McLaughlin & De Lucia: Friday Night in San Francisco. The staging of where the music was recorded was very evident. I could hear Harry Belfonte breath in before he sang (this is an extremely fun recording).

I am waiting to listen to the 803D which isn't in yet. I ordered the 805 Sigs then found out about the new series, so I'm holding off. My dealer is going to let me take home the new 805S to demo at home because they are "supposed" (per literature) to be as nice as the 805 Sigs, but I personally don't think they will be. Pretty cool he's going to let me demo the new 805S at home, eh?

[jonesy805]

New 805's

>a half and I actually love them. I mean really, whats not to love.

The only complaint I have with the N805 is that they have a bit of midbass coloration that tends to color voices. This is apparent only when comparing to the Nautilus speakers with the FST midrange which do not do this.

> The new 805(S) are not miles better than the old N805 but they have a more life like sound. I noticed that the bottom end is a little more tune full but the extention is roughly the same. I was listenting to some big bass jazz tracks and I notice that the bass had a little more body on the new 805(S)version. This could be attributed to the new crossover and stiffer box. The

That totally makes sense based on the distortion specs of the 805S. From what I see, there is no extra extension, just higher quality bass to the same depth of bass. That is essentially what you described when you said "more tuneful bass" One more reason this is likely so is because of the bigger stronger magnet, which will control the bass a little better. I also noticed the crossover is now at 4kHz instead of 3Khz, which I like. This makes it consistent across the Nautilus range. I found that the old crossover point made the N805 a bit of an orphan in terms of matching it's sound with the rest of the Nautilus line in multichannel setups.

Thanks for the informative review. :T

Thanks for the feedback Jlee. Are you upgrading as well?

[Recruit]

I will be purchasing the new 805(S) tonight. After a week and a half of listening I have decided to buy them today.

Excellent News Jonesy805 let us know how you get on...

[jlee]

To Jonesy805, I may be upgrading to HTM3S, 803S, and 805S in the rear, but my local dealer doesn't get them in until end of the month. I want to demo the speakers before deciding to upgrade. I'm perfectly happy with my current setup of 804, HTM1, and SCM1.

[sikoniko]

My dealer got the 804's setup today. I noticed that the FST drive does have the aluminum bullet, whereas the 805s does not.

Just as the 805s's, the 804s's sound great out of the box with the only complaint in the highs being a bit harsh, but it is still a step up and would assume as the break in will sound better as there is still a noticeable detail increase.

my opinion is that if it is possible, the new series sound more natural than the previous.

JLee:
I can see perhaps upgrading the fronts and all, but Im not sure I would replace my SCM1's. I know I just got mine, but am extremely happy with them.

What I am wondering is how well new series L/R would mix w/ the old htm1 until a potential upgrade down the road...

[jlee]

I would have to listen to the 805S before upgrading from SCM1... I can live without upgrading the back, but figure for $300 more, it's something to consider just to have all 5 matching... for the front, personally I like to have the same tweeter and midrange... I think the HTM1 tonal difference would be noticeable and worth changing to HTM3S, but not the huge difference as say using an HTM2 with 804 and up... however, based on some of the "cheapness" threads I'm hearing about the build, I am definitely going to have to see these in person and listen to them before making a final decision... I almost got burned "upgrading" to the new REL subs sight unseen... turns out they are worse sounding, uglier, and more expensive than the units they replaced! They are a major downgrade. Glad I kept my beautiful Stratas and Storms.

[luszer]

I wonder if the ASW825, and ASW865 subs are going to live up to the hype?

I was planning on the 825 over the outgoing 800. The 850 is just too large, particulary paired with Sig 805s. Time will tell, the 865 is not being released until Summer in believe.

[EAmin]

No Discounts on new 800s - what's up with that

I spoke to my dealer today who has the new 800s. Per the instructions from the owner, they are not giving any discounts on the new series. Everything is for sale at B&Ws retail price. I know there's a lot of interest in the new 800s, but is it to the point that they can charge the FULL retail price? I haven't called anywhere else for pricing, but just wondering what you guys are experiencing. Thanks!

[sikoniko]

EAmin,

my dealer was saying they are really watching the price... I havent asked to wheel and deal anything at this time so I can't comment.

JLEE,

The tweeters on the tops are kind of loose, but the new speakers look great in mahogany! The definately sound good out of the box. tweeter was a little harsh, but that could also be that it was on a krell amp.

[caleb]

Full retail - what's that??

I just bought an ASW 850 BRAND NEW and got a 27% discount because it's now considered old stock - cant' beleive that the new series can be better thatn this at the price.

[james_dmi]

JLEE

What cheapness threads I haven’t heard anyone say that the new series has bad build quality?

From my demo of the 803S & 803D with an old 803 for reference I would say build quality was the same (i.e. as good as it can be) for both new and old range. sikoniko commented that the tweeters are more wobbly but this is by design due to the much softer (higher performance) decoupling material they are using.

Anyone seen the DVD yet? Got mine through the post but was a little disappointed that they didn’t talk to the engineers / testers more. Would have loved it if they had given a blow by blow report on each new technology they added and how it changed the sound rather then just over viewing the material in the white paper.

[jlee]

james_dmi,

There was a guy complaining in another thread about the build quality feeling somewhat "cheap" (rubbery feeling flowport, wobbly tweeter, etc.). I then asked for clarification (like if the wobby tweeter was due to higher isolation, etc.)... so you've answered my question in that matter. I have yet to see the new series in person so when I do, I will form my own opinion.

[sikoniko]

Ive noticed that the new series come with the plug in the flowport...

[johan]

Hi guys! Yesterday I was at a show in Stockholm and listened at BW 800D driven by Classe CAM400, without doubt the best I have ever heard. They played all kinds of music: Bob Marley, Rage against the machine, Pink Floyd, Willie Nelson, some classical music etc and everything was just so right. The dynamics were really unlimited, during the classical music you sat there thinking; ok now there can not come out a single more sound from the speakers and then it just exploded and doubled the output with a quire and strings and some big drums. The beginning of Pink Floyds The Wall with the helicopter sounded exactly as a 5.1 setup, the sound was everywere. And Rage... I dont have words, timing timing timing... dynamics.. I have been to many shows listening to many hi-end systems much more expensive than this but there is really no competition, BWs topline speakers are just so much better so I cant even understand those who says it is a matter of taste. Go listen if you can!!!

[jonesy805]

Upgrade

To Jonesy805, I may be upgrading to HTM3S, 803S, and 805S in the rear, but my local dealer doesn't get them in until end of the month. I want to demo the speakers before deciding to upgrade. I'm perfectly happy with my current setup of 804, HTM1, and SCM1.

I know what you mean Jlee. I was happy with my old 805's as well.
But the new ones are very impressive. They actually are better.

[jonesy805]

I picked up my new pair of 805(S) on Friday evening. It's true what everyone is saying about them sounding better than the N805's right out of the box. I ran them in for the entire weekend non stop. When I went to bed Friday night I put my CD player on repeat. When I got up Sturday morning I couldn't wait to change the CD and continue to listen while I was making breakfast. I would recommend to anyone who is considering buying the new series to take them home to demo them if your dealer will let you.

Right out of the box they sounded allot better at home than the demo pair I was listening to at the dealer. I guess the room at the dealers store was bad for acoustics. Well any way let's cut to the chase.

By Sunday night I could already hear the difference from Friday night. The (S) tweeter is very open. On Friday I would say that the tweeter was laid back but by Sunday night That was no longer a true statement. I noticed in some earlier reviews people were going to purchase these babies for rears. It must be nice to be able to afford these for rears. I would recommned listening to them in a two channel situation before you allocate them to the rear channels. Just to hear what they are cable of. You will be amazed.

Because of the speed of the new 805(S) they can disappear easier than it's predecessor. I can see why B&W says it out performs the Signature model. It has more control in the top end. With the new crossover you will find the new 805(S) more likable, tuneful, and fast in the lower regions. You will also notice that the new model has more air around the instruments and vocals especially when playing jazz.

This speaker makes me want to buy more expensive gear to drive them. As good as my Arcam FMJ setup is, I would love to hear them with The new Classe CDP 100 and CAP 2100 in my living room.

They just keep getting better and better.

So far my dealer only has the (S) models of the new range. Stay tuned for my review of the diamond models once they get in. Let me know if you have a particular model that you want me to listen to for a second opinion if you like. I walk by my dealers store on my way home from work every day.

[shep]

wonder if the new 804s will make me want to upgrade from 804 N

Having just purchased a demo pair of Nautilus 804s, I wonder if the difference will be enough to sway me on trading up(?) to the new 804s. Will it be worth the $1000 or so it will take to trade up? Has any other 804 owner been able to compare the new vs. the old?

[sprakash]

My 804S arrived today and are running a CD on repeat as I type.
My first impressions out of the box were very good. As someone in another thread pointed out, the sound seemed a little forward compared to the N804(which I traded for these), but in a totally positive maner.
The soundstage seems bigger than the N804s.
Toggling between stereo and trifield on my 565, stereo was spread-out very well between the speakers, and trifield seemed to solidify the stage some more, but stereo was very good by itself too.
The bass seems a little quicker and goes down lower.
I like this. Lets see how the sound matures over the next few days.
One question for anybody who has bought the new series with the FST mid. Do they come with the plastic screw in the back that you have to remove before setting them up 'cause mine did'nt - just wondering.
Cheers,
SP

[watchthewaves]

The bass seems a little quicker and goes down lower.

According to the specs, it doesn't really go down lower. The specs for the N804 are given as 38Hz and 22kHz at -3dB. The new 804 are 38Hz to 22kHz +/-3dB.

Perhaps some placebo effect here?

[hillen]

Nyheter
... Test! B&W 802D Kilde: Hifi och musik 02/2005 "...Knappt hade vi hunnit utse Nautilus
802 till världens bästa högtalara förran vi nåddes av nyheten om en ...
www.hifiklubben.com/no/Nyheter/detail/1351.htm - 19k - 13 feb 2005

[sprakash]

Simon, it may well be the placebo effect. I have not modified any settings on the pre/pro and just swapped the 804s in place, right over the old footprint.
It definitely seems to have a bigger soundstage.
I tried a couple of movies last evening and the integration in the front seems better than before too.
Cheers,
SP

[watchthewaves]

Great that you like the new ones. May I ask what was the difference you had to pay to trade up to it?

Thinking of checking when the local dealer will be getting his sets in. hehheh

[shep]

new 804s vs. Nautilus 804

I am hoping to go in and listen to the new speakers at some point soon. May try to A-B with my current 804 speakers when I take them back in for some work. Turns out that when I bought these floor models, someone had fiddled with the tension screw on the back of one speaker (it was somewhat loose), so I have to bring it in for the service tech to tighten it. In any case, gives me a chance to compare my demos to a broken in pair of the new model.
Would love to hear if others have already been able to compare new and old side by side.

[hired goon]

805s thoughts

G'day,

I checked out the new 805s at Aurant Audio in Salt Lake City on the weekend. Powered by a Classe 2x100w integrated, and using a Rotel DVD player as source, but still sounded better than the N805. Seemed to have a bigger soundstage, and more air. Bottom-end was still a bit woolly however -- I assume the 805s still has the hump in the lower mid-bass that the N805 had?

I played Diana Krall, Steely Dan, Beck, Led Zeppelin, some deep ambient dub, Bach's Goldberg Variations, David Sylvian, Jack Johnson, Underworld, and Bill Evans. The 805s seemed to handle all styles well, except for the extreme bottom end (Led Zeppelin and Underworld didn't fare too well in this regard). Although the equipment may have been a culprit here.

I haven't heard the Signature 805, so I can't say if the 805s are any better or not. But I did like them

An 804s was also on display, but they only had about 20 hours on them. Bottom end was tighter, and the sound wasn't quite as forward as the 805s, but I didn't think there was that much difference between them. Maybe the 804s would improve after substantially more break-in.

No 803s, unfortunately. Not expected until mid-March, but by that time I'll be out of the US and back in Australia, where the new 800 series are not due until June (I think).

--Geoff

[hillen]

Another review ( ofthe 800D )

25.01.2005 Send til ven Print anmeldelsen


B&W Nautilus 800 Diamond

Test af Redaktøren, fotos: B&W & Redaktøren


HIFI4ALL.DK var på pletten, da den nye Diamond serie fra B&W blev præsenteret i Oslo. Vi lagde omgående billet ind til en test, men hvorfor være beskeden: Her er topmodellen til 145.800...





Da HIFI4ALL.DK blev præsenteret for den nye Diamond serie i et pladsstudie i Oslo, var lyden så overbevisende, at vi omgående bad om et sæt til test.

Redaktøren er jo som bekendt ikke bange for at indrømme sine svagheder, og beskedenhed har aldrig været min stærke side, så efter at have udsat både B&W og den lokale hifi-pusher for et massivt pres, lykkedes det Hifiklubben at få trukket et sæt at det mastodontiske lydmøbel, 800D hjem.

Selv fragtmanden, der leverede de enorme kasser var virkelig nysgerrig og klar til at droppe den sidste del af turen for et sæde i sofaen resten af dagen. Desværre var sættet fuldstændig jomfrueligt, så det ville ikke give mening at nærlytte den første dag.

Hvis du igennem længere tid har overvejet, hvordan du i al hast kan blive tildelt højeste invalidepension i forbindelse med din hobby, så køb et sæt 800D. Med en kampvægt på godt 125 kg stykket og en form, der garanterer elendige arbejdsstillinger under manipulation med ståsted, er du næsten sikker på at få mindst to varige mén. I hvert fald vil en kommende røntgenundersøgelse vise, hvad konsekvensen blev af en dislokeret skulder efter modtagelsen af kasserne får…. !

Du skal samtidig være forberedt på, at hvis du én gang har pakket dem ud, så skal du ikke regne med at pakke dem ind igen i den originale emballage. ( Jeg har foreslået B&W bare at lade dem blive stående, men sådan skulle det ikke gå… desværre )

Udpakningen endte dog nogenlunde lykkeligt kun med menneskelige skader – ingen materielle – heldigvis. Efter lidt masen og mokken tog de fantastiske møbler sig en fast plads ca. 75 cm fra bagvæggen og 120 cm fra nærmeste sidevæg med ca. 350 cm mellem dem. De blev vinklet en anelse mod sweetspot.

Konstruktionen

Selve konstruktionen er jo helt fantastisk. Nederst er en stor base med sorte kanter og børstet aluminium på toppen, som udgør et særdeles solidt fundament for højttaleren. På fronten er B&W’s fulde navn indgraveret. I en udskæring i basen på bagsiden findes særdeles gode terminaler forberedt på biwiring / -amping. Inden i basen sidder et forholdsvis enkelt delefilter stykket sammen af de bedste materialer på to separate print.



Delefilteret benytter de bedste erfaringer fra den kendte 800-serie, men er forsynet med en helt ny type kondensator, som er udviklet specielt efter dens klanglige egenskaber. B&W’s Production Manager Mike Gough fortalte at den nye kondensator er den eneste komponent til tweeteren. I stedet for at udvikle en række tilpasninger mellem enhederne, har B&W optimeret enhedernes ydelser, så kun det absolut mest nødvendige er indeholdt i delefilteret – nemlig at få delt frekvensområdet ud. Overvejelser som time alignment, der i den tidligere model delvist var indbygget i filteret er nu helt og holdent klaret ved omhyggelig placering af enhederne på rette sted i den lodrette akse.

Basen ( plinten)

Basen er fra starten forsynet med fire ruller i stål, så højttaleren kan trilles på plads, men det bør du glemme alt om, med mindre du alligevel skal have skiftet dit parket- eller trægulv. Her knækker filmen fuldstændig for B&W for første gang.
Ønsker du at placere højttalerne på andet end et sæt transporthjul af stål, er spikes eller gummifødder en mulighed

Kabinettet

Kabinettet er som vanligt fremstillet på Ludvigsens Møbelfabrik i Danmark og er en videreudvikling af det berømte Matrix princip, som er er så gennemført, at enhver resonans synes stedt til hvile for evigt.. Det er et kabinet, som kræver helt sin egen proces for dels at opnå den fantastiske form. Billederne illustrerer bedre end mange ord, hvordan de enkelte lag i lamineringen presses i forme for at opnå den buede form.
Ludvigsens fabrik har desuden faciliteter til perfekt opbevaring af de enkelte lamineringer hvad angår temperatur og fugtighed, så træet er i perfekt stand til de avancerede processer, hvor lamineringer bøjes under høje temperaturer og enormt tryk. Det teknik er kendt fra møbelfremstilling, men problemet her er, at få siderne til at passe i sammenføjningerne og samtidig holde målene til matrixstrukturen. Den præcision og det udstyr, der kræves til den samlede øvelse, er det kun meget få fabrikker i verden, der besidder. Ludvigsen er blandt de absolut bedste.

I bunden af kabinettet sidder en enorm basport, som har undergået en kraftig udvikling i erkendelse af, at porten og dens egenskaber er særdeles afgørende for den endelig basgengivelse.
Én ting er, at luften ved lave lydstyrker kan passere gennem en port i forholdsvis laminære flows, men når volumen øges, ændrer en ports egenskaber sig betragteligt. Alene modstanden i en port er rigeligt til at ændre det samlede bassystems effektivitet. Skin modstanden er den friktionsværdi, som luften genererer ved at løbe langs portens materiale. Er porten lang og måske endda ru på overfladen, øges denne modstand betragteligt, og de laminære strømme forstyrrer dermed hinanden. Slutresultatet kan i de værste tilfælde medføre en regulær turbulens, som kan sætte portens egenresonans i svingninger præcis som orgelpibe. Interessant, men ikke særlig hensigtsmæssigt. Næste problem opstår, når luften forlader porten, som er et kapitel for sig selv med alle formor for turbulent, trompetsymptomer osv. endelig er der en række overvejelser, når luften suges tilbage i kabinettet, når enheden bevæger sig den modsatte retning.
Hos B&W har indførelsen af et nyt Doppler måleudstyr betydet, at udviklerne har kunnet måle sig frem til en del af disse fænomener og dermed kunne udvikle modeller for de bedste kompromiser. I stedet for at se turbulensspøgelser alle vegne, har B&W faktisk taget et kendt aerodynamisk princip i brug – nemlig at turbulens også kan benyttes aktivt. Ved at fremstille ”trompeten” med uens overflade reduceres udløbshastigheden og risikoen for hørbare resonanser mindskes. Samtidig betyder det minimal turbulens, når luften suges tilbage i kabinettet. Endelig betyder placeringen af porten i bunden af højttaleren, at hørbare rester minimeres.

Selve samlingen af højttalerne har vi tidligere beskrevet her på HIFI4ALL.DK i besøgsartiklen fra B&W kombineret med en test af model 703, som du kan læse HER

Kabinettet er dog et stykke møbelkunst ud over det sædvanlige og en sand fryd for øjet. Jeg er ikke så sikker på, at jeg selv ville benytte et design som Marlans ”æg”, men kabinettets form er jeg vild med og det øger det samlede intryk af din bolig med et par stykker møbelkunst i høj klasse. På toppen af selve trækabinettet uden om Marlan’ens base, er kabinettet betrukket med læder af én eller anden slags. Det er lækkert lavet og distancerer højttaleren fra alle andre. Integrationen af ”diskant-piben” er fornemt udført. I øvrigt kan Marlan’en holde til, at den benyttes som håndtag, når højttaleren lægges ned på en dyne under udpakningen. Alt i alt superhøj håndværksmæssig udførelse.

Bas

På fronten af det laminerede kabinet sidder to 10” enheder, som synes at være uden for almindelige kvalitetsnormer. B&W har i lang tid holdt sig til papir og kevlar, men disse enheder er krydret med materialet Rohacell i ubeskedne mængder, som er et materiale med ekstrem styrke i forhold til den lave vægt. Derfor anvendes Rohacell en del i flyindustrien.
Faktisk er det lykkedes B&W at ende op med en cone på hele 8 mm i stedet for de sædvanlige 1-2 mm. Det betyder, at udviklerne har fået helt nye muligheder for at dæmpe membranens egenresonanser og reducere den bølgevirkning der opstår, når en impuls fra svingspolen breder sig fra midten ud over membranen og sendes tilbage som et ekko mod midten igen. På mere almindelige membraner kan dette ekko gentage til adskillige gange. Se mere om dette i besøgsartiklen

Mellemtone

Mellemtone kabinettet er jo det berømte Marlan hoved, som også gennemgås i besøgsartiklen fra B&W. I forhold til den tidligere 800 model er Marlan’en ændret en anelse på designet for at sikre en bedre integration af diskantens ”kabinet”.
Enheden er den kendte og berømte kantløse FST mellemtone ( Fixed Suspension Transducer ), som også benyttes i den forrige 800 model. Årsagen til kantløsheden kan du igen finde i besøgsartiklen fra B&W. Der er dog ændret en lille smule, idet chassiset er blevet noget kraftigere. Resten af enheden bygger dog på de hidtidige teorier og erfaringer.

Diskanten

Den største og mest radikale forbedring ved den nye D-model er diskantenheden, hvis nye materiale har ladt navn til seriens suffiks: D for diamant.
Brugen af diamant i fremstillingen af diskanten har en række fordele, hvis teoretiske baggrunde jeg skal spare jer for. Resultatet af at benytte diamant er kort fortalt, at membranen er i stand til at beholde sin stempelformede bevægelse i langt højere grad end tidligere. Frekvensgangen over 20 KHz er nu langt mere ideel, idet det velkendte peak på mere end 20 dB over 0 nu flyttes fra ca. 30 KHz op til omkring 70 KHz samtidig med, at meget af den frekvensmæssige uro i dette interval reduceres betragteligt. Hermed nærmer frekvenskurven sig i langt højere grad ”idealkurven” for diskantenheder samtidig med at faseudligninger genereret af ikke-stempellignende bevægelser reduceres. Se besøgsartiklen igen…

MUUUSIIIKKK !!!

Nok om højttalerens design og teknik ! På med snorerne i form af Analysis Plus Silver Oval højttaler- og interconnectkabler, GamuT D200, GamuT D3 og en lang række kildeafspillere fra Sony SCD-XA3000ES, Audio Analogue Maestro, Cayin CD252, Dali Helicon 800 og en lang række andre produkter, som tilfældigvis var forbi.

Jeg skal med det samme lade min undren over den manglende wow-effekt komme til udtryk. Efter at have bikset med 125 kg tunge højttalere, der koster et års beskattet lønarbejde, havde jeg på trods af den manglende tilspilning store forventninger til lyden. Fra første færd spillede de stille og roligt – nærmest lidt ”bedstefarsagtigt”, tilbagelænet og uden synderligt engagement. B&W skriver, at tilspilningstiden kun er 15 timer – alt herudover skyldes den psykiske tilvænning til den nye lyd. Jeg lod nu alligevel tuneren få frit afløb til forforstærkeren og lod sættet stå med et ubeskedent niveau i tre døgn. Det hjalp.
Placeringen er noget, som du absolut ikke har lyst til at eksperimentere med, men mindre du har flere titler i Verdens Stærkeste Mand konkurrencerne. Du har også stor risiko for at dit parketgulv lider seriøs skade, hvis højttalerne skal rykkes lidt rundt. Vi placerede dem på et par 2 cm tykke, tyrkiske tæpper med glat underlag, så de var nemme at trække rundt med. De endte 1 meter fra bagvæggen, 1,5 m fra sidevæggene med knap 4 meter i mellem svarende til højden på den ideelle trekant. Vi endte med en meget svag vinkling mod sweetspot.

Når forventningerne er spændt til bristepunktet, er der altid et eller andet, man umiddelbart starter med at notere sig. Med 800D’erne var det den hidtil uhørte, knusende ro i lyden, som kun kan lade sig gøre, hvis kabinettets indflydelse på farvning af lyden er fuldstændig elimineret. Som en gigantisk sumobryder, der én gang for alle har sat sig på en rødkælk, er der ingen af membranernes bevægelser, der på nogen måde kan provokere kabinettet til hørbart bidrag. Det siger sig selv, at et sådan kabinet giver det bedste potentiale for enhederne og deres arbejde.

Efter de tre døgns tæsk var det meget tydeligt, at 800D’erne lukkede op for sluserne. Det betyder dog ikke, at lyden nu var ny og spændende, men at 800D’erne ganske enkelt sad som en erfaren dirigent og lod taktstokken befale tonernes tilbliven. Ro, stabilitet, neutralitet og et unikt lydbillede går igen under alle musikformer eller andre lyde, som disse mastodonter får tilført.

Supertramps ”Some Things Never Change” er en forrygende optagelse som præsentere både simple og yderst komplekse lydbilleder med en ultrapotent bas, som på mange systemer kan blive lidt for meget. Fra at være en spændende CD med god lyd, blev den pludselig til en helt ny opdagelse, hvor 800D’ernes enorme overskud i forhold til samtlige musikalske parametre blev udstillet med største selvfølgelighed. Det tørre lydbillede med den tunge bas blev splittet ad i samtlige atomets bestanddele. Ikke én eneste af de milliarder af detaljer får lov at undslippe en rolig og bevidst formidling. Alt er med og står fuldstændig urokkeligt på sin plads. Det skægge er, at trods en usædvanlig detaljering, et lydbillede større end de fleste og et perspektiv med mere luft mellem instrumenterne end hørt før, så er der stadig ikke så meget som en antydning af wow-effekt. De fleste, der kortvarigt lyttede med undervejs, synes ærlig talt ikke, der var noget specielt fantastisk over lyden. De få, der satte sig ned for at lade sig forføre af musikken kom lige så stille og roligt frem til adskillige musikalske åbenbaringer, som i korthed gik ud på, at de mistede fornemmelsen for både tid og rum, når 800D’erne tog dem med på oplevelsesrejse i musikkens rige. Stille og roligt og uden sværdslag må man overgive sig til den utrolige selvfølgelighed, hvormed kæmperne servere den ene store oplevelse efter den anden.

Jeg har tidligere beskrevet B&W’s mindre højttalere, som værende uden egen personlighed, men bare den stolte tjener, der serverer den ene udsøgte ret efter den anden uden at fortrække ét eneste næsebor. Det tjener til B&W’s ære, at denne enestående evne til at forholde sig fuldstændig upåvirket af materialet, går igen hele vejen igennem. Af samme årsag er det fuldt forståeligt, at B&W foretrækkes af flere og flere store pladestudier. Det er jo en drøm at mixe plader, når musikken får lov at leve livet på helt sine egne præmisser uden at højttaleren skal blande sig i resultatet.

Skal jeg fjerne mig lidt fra disse generelle vendinger og blive helt konkret omkring hvilke fysiske egenskaber, der giver denne usædvanlig gode lyd, så lad os starte fra bunden af. Basområdet er faktisk lige så specielt et kapitel som den nyeste diamant-diskant. Jeg kan ikke lade være med at beundre B&W’s udviklingsfolk for deres sublime evner til at få nye principper og konstruktioner til dels at levere et fantastisk resultat, men i mindst lige så høj grad evner de at få sammensat et helstøbt system af de mange forskellige opfindelser og principper. De nye Rohacell enheder opfører sig som superdresserede heste, der aldrig sætter en hov forkert i manegen. Der er total kontrol på alle udladninger uanset hvor komplekse eller kraftige de er. Højtopløselige optagelser af testafskydninger serveret med et sønderrivende niveau tiltager sig bare en realistisk vinkel på reproduktionen – eller på mere jævnt dansk: Du får rumskibet, kanonen, jetjageren osv. direkte ind i stuen. I disse ekstreme situationer får jeg fornemmelsen af, at 800D’erne bare står og smiler til mig, mens de tænker: Ak, ja, pusling… er det hvad du har at byde på ?”
Selv om bassystemet er i stand til at gengive disse eksplosioner af lavfrekvent lyd, får du det hele med. Går jeg tilbage til musikkens verden, er det i de dybeste områder, at informationerne til lytteren om koncertsalens geometri og anatomi grundlægges. Jo mere detaljeret, de dybeste oktaver er, og jo bedre denne detaljering og dynamikken er integreret til resten af systemet, jo mere præcist fornemmer lytteren rummets egenskaber.
800D’ernes gengivelse i det dybe område er altså i særklasse god. Det er kun meget få systemer, der på så overbevisende facon og med tilsvarende ro og overblik er i stand til at afsløre så meget om de dybe toners hemmeligheder. Glem ALT om subwoofere og andet gejl – her får du en basgengivelse, der gør det svært for samtlige konkurrenter i klassen.

Det er dog ikke bare højttalernes evne til at gengive dette herlige basområde. Som antydet er det i lige så høj grad integrationen med både mellemtoneområdet og diskanten. Mere om det om lidt.
Mellemtonen er jo B&W’s speciale med den kantløse kevlarenhed i Marlan ”ægget”. Jeg kender ikke andre mellemtoneenheder, der har har gennemgået mere intensiv forskning end denne FST-enhed og resultatet udebliver heller ikke. Du hører det omgående på gengivelsen af vanskelige instrumenter om næroptagne flygler, stemmer, percussion og andre instrumenter med ekstreme paek-profiler, som er i stand til at sætte enhederne i området på en virkelig prøve.
Igen bevarer FST-enheden denne knusende ro selv under ekstreme påvirkninger, hvor hovedparten af andre enheder opfører sig som en punkteret ballon, fortsætter denne enhed med at bevare overblik og ro. Det kantløse design har givetvis en hel del af æren jævnfør overvejelserne om ekkoer fra kantophængene. Marlan kuplen er i denne sammenhæng en aldeles kvalificeret partner til enheden, som ud over at give enheden det optimale rum, også bidrager til dæmpning af stående bølger i dette kritiske område.

Så til den nye diamant diskant. Det er muligt, at udviklingen af den har kostet masser af pund, sved, tårer og andre anstrengelser, men kære B&W… det var sliddet værd !!! Dette er den bedste dome, jeg endnu har lagt øre til. Den kombinerer alle fordelene fra andre principper med domens enestående klanglige egenskaber. Det hele ender med en opløsning, definition, niveau og kompetent udstilling af samtlige tredimensionale kvaliteter, som endnu mangler en ligeværdig modstander. Men gæt hvad det bedste er ???
Det hele hænger sammen. Jeg har tidligere hørt suveræne gode enheder, som bare ikke kom godt ud af det med hinanden. Præcis som hvis verdens bedste spillere bare blev sat på samme hold for en enkelt dag. Hver for sig er de enestående, men som hold går det galt.
800D’erne har ikke bare de bedste spillere på banen, de er også født til at spille sammen og det gør de så. Det enkle delefilter er utrolig godt matchet og betyder samtidig, at højttaleren ikke er specielt besværlig at drive. Selv med Rotels herlige 60 Watt’er, RA-1062, er der dømt masser af dynamik, perspektiv og opløsning.

Skulle jeg putte lidt malurt i bægeret er der tre ting, som man kunne beskylde systemet for: Prisen er så høj, at det desværre kun er de allerfærreste, der får lov at nyde denne fantastiske konstruktion. Deres fysiske omfang og vægt reducerer desuden i antallet af rigmænd, hvis koner vil acceptere sådanne monstre i stuerne. Havde det været en vaseholder, kunne de sikkert spille af sted med det, da designet er kunst, men hører hun, at det er en højttaler, er slaget allerede tabt på forhånd.
Endelig savnede jeg lidt mere ”goddaws” imponatoreffekt – i hvert fald i starten. Ud over rigmænd, der aldrig kunne finde på at traske ned til den lokale 800D-pusher for en lytter, er det jo kun afficionados’er med hang til exceptionel lyd, der kan gennemskue, at lyden er førsteklasses – for den lyder hverken af lidt eller meget i starten. Den spiller bare – stille og roligt.

Konklusion

Flere gange under testen glædede jeg mig til at få de gode gamle højttalere på plads igen med deres overbevisende deltagelse i musikken. Da det endelig skete, stod jeg tilbage med savnet over samtlige kvaliteter, der adskiller 800D fra andre fantastiske højttalere. Sådan har vi alle haft det masser af gange og efter måneders eller års opsparing, er vi som regel kommet videre, men det sker ikke for mig denne gang. Hvor meget jeg end er forelsket i disse enestående musikkæmper, vil 145.800 kroner være mere, end jeg har lyst at spendere. Et skulle da lige være hvis en kunstfond i familien slog sig sammen med en indretningspsykolog, som kunne overbevise dronningen på borgen om, at de både var pengene og pladsen værd !!

Jeg kan kun sige én ting: Får du nogensinde disse højttalere som ejendom, hører du til blandt de heldigste asener på kloden !

HIFI4ALL.DK siger ”SPIDSEN AF TOPKLASSEN” !!!

Pris pr sæt: 145.800,00 kr

Tech Spec:

1 tommer diamantdiskant
6 tommer FST mellemtone
2 x 10 tommer Rohacell sandwich bas
Frekvensgang: 25-33.000 Hz (-6dB)
Frekvensgang: 32-28.000 Hz (-3dB)
Impedans: 8 ohm (minimum 3.1 ohm)
Følsomhed: 90 dB
Delefrekvenser: 350Hz / 4kHz
Størrelse: 118 x 45 x 64.5 cm (H x B x D)
Nettovægt: 125 kg pr / stk

Forhandling:

Hi-Fi Klubben Online
Mølbakvej 4
8520 Lystrup
Tlf: 7010 4434
Fax: 8743 2140
online@hifiklubben.dk

[sikoniko]

well.. my ancestors would be ashamed of me for not being able to read that if its in german, but what does it say in english?

[sprakash]

Simon, my dealer has a 1 year upgrade policy where you get the full amount of the old speaker credited towards a new (and more expensive) pair. Since discount on the new series is lower than I usually get, I ended up paying 600 to swap the N804 pair for the 804S. The difference in sound is worth it IMHO.
Hopefully next year I can move up to the 803 with a bigger discount, as well as having a larger 'down payment' in place ;-)
Cheers,
SP

[jahlion]

http://www.bw800.com/

not sure if this link for the B&W 800 series micro site has been posted.

There is also a really cool DVD available. 8)

I, for one, will be getting a pair of the new 802D's. I used to have a natural cherrywood B&W Nautilus surround setup including N802's, N805's, and an HTM2. I can't wait to have B&W's again... This time I may have to try the rosenut finish...

[expletive]

This might be of interest for owners of the current Nautilus range:
I send an e-mail to B&W speakers, England, and got the following answer:

Dear Sir,
I replaced the original plastic phaseplugs by the aluminium Signature 800
phaseplugs and noticed an improvement in the midrangeclarity of my Nautilus
802's. Recently I removed the ( grey )paint on the bottom of the phaseplug
with a piece of sandpaper, so that the alumunium material is in DIRECT
contact with the copper on the midrange magnetpole. The improvement is
immediately audible, even by a bigger margin than just by changing the
original phaseplug by the "untreated"aluminium one. I think, removing the
paint on the bottom makes a dramatic difference for the better: i.e. less
grain, less distortion. Now I am able to play even louder withoud any
strain. I am curious, what your findings are on this matter.
Kind regards,
Bram Hillen. ( Holland )


Dear Bram
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, we have also found that the aluminium plug sounds better and smoother
in the mid range, than the plastic one. The aluminium one also sounds better
than the brass and copper versions, that we have made ourselves, and also
some very expensive after sales items, marketted by other people. Why? well
that's another question altogether.... We have used some pretty
sophisticated measuring apparatus, including the "Klippel" distortion
analyser, but we have yet to show any measurable difference, between them.
Ask me in a few years time - we may have figured it out by then. For now
just trust your ears.

Best regards
Stephan Baker, B&W UK

Are there any such tweaks for the HTM1 as well? Im wondering if the signature HTM uses the same size plug as the HTM1 and a similar benefit can be heard. Improved midrange for a center channel would be great!

Also, could you elaborate on what you mean be removing the grey paint on the bottom of the aluminum phase plug?
Thanks!

John

[hillen]

N 802 phaseplug

Are there any such tweaks for the HTM1 as well? Im wondering if the signature HTM uses the same size plug as the HTM1 and a similar benefit can be heard. Improved midrange for a center channel would be great!

Yes, HTM1 uses the same phase plug, so a similar benefit can be heard.

Also, could you elaborate on what you mean be removing the grey paint on the bottom of the aluminum phase plug?

Because the painting is an automated process, paint can also be found on the bottom of the plug ( i.e. where it hits the pole piece of the magnet ).
Removing the paint makes a dramatic difference for the better because then the aluminium makes direct contact with the magnetpole. I dont feel any need to trade my N802's in for the 802D's, after the mod with the phaseplug.
It's also a very easy upgrade, you just need a small piece of sandpaper...

I can recommend replacing the plastic phaseplug for the aluminium one to all N 800 series users.


Bram

[Dutch in USA]

Hi Bram,

I sent you a PM on the plugs....a while ago
It is an interesting topic!
Thanks,
D

[expletive]

Are there any such tweaks for the HTM1 as well? Im wondering if the signature HTM uses the same size plug as the HTM1 and a similar benefit can be heard. Improved midrange for a center channel would be great!

Yes, HTM1 uses the same phase plug, so a similar benefit can be heard.

Also, could you elaborate on what you mean be removing the grey paint on the bottom of the aluminum phase plug?

Because the painting is an automated process, paint can also be found on the bottom of the plug ( i.e. where it hits the pole piece of the magnet ).
Removing the paint makes a dramatic difference for the better because then the aluminium makes direct contact with the magnetpole. I dont feel any need to trade my N802's in for the 802D's, after the mod with the phaseplug.
It's also a very easy upgrade, you just need a small piece of sandpaper...

I can recommend replacing the plastic phaseplug for the aluminium one to all N 800 series users.


Bram

Thanks Bram!

I also have 4 SCM1s as surrouds, are they the same plugs as Sig 805s and are those aluminum as well? Ive gone this far may as well do they whole set!


John

[juha]

Listening on 803D some days ago..and I cant calmed down. It was very very convincing. So is there anyone who compared the old 800N against 800D?

[js24]

juha,
I see you have the marvelous 801N's
How did the 803D's sound compare to the 801N's (especially the mid/high, I know the bass is not even close)
thanks
Jay

[juha]

I loved the 803D, they sound so much real. Ok the lowest bass wasn´t there but hey I would trade that anyday. Im actually a little bit shaked over the new range from BW. Ok, 801N is still a very fine speaker and they do a nice job to make me happy.

[peete]

peete

I'm considering acquiring a pair of JBL 250 TI's from late 90's to use for H.T.
Has anyone any experience with them? I hear they are very dynamic.
Cheers, peete

[caleb]

If you read the thread on the phase plugs you will see that I am selling out aluminium phase plugs to the B&W spec for a very reasonable price.

We will have some spares left over i anyone on the forum would like them.

We might even consider making up a new batch if there is a demand.

Oh and by the way apart from looking really cool, THEY DO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE!!

[juha]

What price for a pair of plugs?

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

This has been a great thread and with 41,000+ reads, one of the most popular in HTGude's history. But with the new 800 series out and actively posted on many threads as people listen and buy, its time to unsticky it and let it drift away with time...

Thanks for all the contibutioons...

Geoff