upgrade 802D to 800D or amps?

[Relentless]

I have an have an opportunity to upgrade my 802D to 800D for around $6500.
The 802's are about 3 months old and the 800's will be new. Or I can get a pair of MC501 amps for the same price. I have enough amp to drive the 800D's now but nowhere near there potential so I will need new amps but I figure get the 800's now and build the electronics around them down the line.


the few times I have listened to the 800D's they were powered with 1000 watts each of Boulder amp so I know what they can sound like I just don't know what they will sound like with 325 watts each.

so....upgrade 802D to 800D or amps?

[hifiguymi]

If the speaker upgrade would cost you more down the road then do the speakers now. If you think the speaker upgrade will cost the same later on, after you have done the amp upgrade, then get the amps. If you plan on doing both in the long run then upgrade the one that will make the most financial sence first.


However the 800D's will show off better gear, and on the flip side, average gear, so let you ear be the final judge.


Eric

[Relentless]

...oops double post

[Relentless]

I could save around $3500 by doing the speaker upgrade now. I am just wondering if you can drive the 800D's with a Bryston 4BSST with positive results until I can upgrade to mono blocks of my choice. I also would get 500 watt mono blocks now but if I had the 800's I may start looking at higher rated amps.

[Glenee]

For you Info. When listening to my 802D's 90% of the time my MC501 monoblocks only show about 5 watts with peaks in the 50-100 watt range. About 85 db on the spl meter where I'm sitting. The Bryston will be fine with the 800D's.
Glenee

[RebelMan]

The Bryston will be fine with the 800D's.

Agreed, as long as you (Relentless) don't plan on driving the 800Ds to reference levels you will be fine in the interim with the 4B-SST.

[Relentless]

thanks guys

[Indytown]

I would go with the 800D's. Plan on having a clean sounding pre-amp, CDP and good cabling.

Indy

[DeepEndX]

I will definitely upgrade the 802D to 800D. B&W speakers are relatively easy to drive and your Bryston would do just fine.

[Briz vegas]

I will definitely upgrade the 802D to 800D. B&W speakers are relatively easy to drive and your Bryston would do just fine.

Why do folks keep saying 800 series are easy to drive. I suggest you read this

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/

Not to say that the Bryston would have any problems as it has plenty o grunt

[Relentless]

interesting article. This part of it stands out..........It's also obvious from these results why the B&W 802D has a reputation for being an amplifier ball-breaker.

[Relentless]

well I talked to the dealer and the guy that was going to give me what I wanted for them decided to go with the 800D's. I wonder how well they sell on "A-Gon"? I would hate to have to ship them even know I have the origional boxes and packing.

[eljr]

800D is easier to drive than the 802. The 802 has low base issues which the the bass alignment and driver of the 800D does not.

mute at this point I guess

Are you going to upgrade your amp now?

[Relentless]

Are you going to upgrade your amp now?

well I am looking into selling the 802s first. I could save someone a couple thousand off of list and they are only a few months old so I should not have too much trouble selling them. If I do I can go the amp rout now and still get what I paid for them within a year of the purchase date. I would rather get the new speakers now though

[eljr]

are you considering any other speakers or just the 800d's?

[beden1]

Why do folks keep saying 800 series are easy to drive. I suggest you read this

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/

Not to say that the Bryston would have any problems as it has plenty o grunt

Exactly one of the primary reasons I decided to go with the 803Ds instead . . . and I felt they have a more responsive bass in listening to rock n' roll genres.

[RebelMan]

Why do folks keep saying 800 series are easy to drive. I suggest you read this

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/

Not to say that the Bryston would have any problems as it has plenty o grunt

Nobody said they were "easy" to drive only that the 4B-SST could at modest levels. They are relatively sensitive speakers but thirst for current when the drivers are opened up. A 100 watt Classe CA-2100 can keep up better than you might think.

[Glenee]

Relentless, Does your dealer have a 1 yr upgrade program. I know that most B&W Dealers do. Worth a shot.You do know that changing your bryston to a Mac MC501 will not give you more DB of a large amount. What it will do is give you a different sound.
Glenee

[Relentless]

Relentless, Does your dealer have a 1 yr upgrade program. I know that most B&W Dealers do. Worth a shot.You do know that changing your bryston to a Mac MC501 will not give you more DB of a large amount. What it will do is give you a different sound.
Glenee

Yes there is a one year upgrade program. The only issue is that then he will have to sit on them until they sell so he wont be able to discount the 800 near as much as he would if I was just buying them strait out. Most likely trading them up is what I will do but if I sell them it will benefit the both of us.

As far as the amp is concerned I am not looking for more DB over all just I figure mono blocks would be able to drive them easier and open up the sound stage even more than the already large sound stage they have. The only way to tell if they will is to use the amps in my room. You would be surprised at how many of the dealers I have been to barely treat there demo rooms. I asked my dealer why and he said because the majority of people aren't into audio as myself and I would say most of the people on this forum. So when they get the speakers home they will sound close to what they hear here in the shop, and the people who know better know they can sound even better in there treated room. Well that is how he feels about it.

[Relentless]

are you considering any other speakers or just the 800d's?

I have listened to Dynaudio C4 and liked them but I like the 800Ds better. I have heard Revel Studio and I prefer the 802Ds but I haven't listened to the Studio2 or the Ultima2 which I imagine sound awesome. There is Focal-JMlabs and countless other great speakers I can list in that price range that I don't have the chance to audition. I am a fan of the B&W midrange, the Diamond tweeter and the sound stage they produce. I really like the way the 800D's reproduce music, I also like the way they look. To answer your question at this point I am just considering going from the 802D to the 800D.

[Glenee]

I have listened to Dynaudio C4 and liked them but I like the 800Ds better. I have heard Revel Studio and I prefer the 802Ds but I haven't listened to the Studio2 or the Ultima2 which I imagine sound awesome. There is Focal-JMlabs and countless other great speakers I can list in that price range that I don't have the chance to audition. I am a fan of the B&W midrange, the Diamond tweeter and the sound stage they produce. I really like the way the 800D's reproduce music, I also like the way they look. To answer your question at this point I am just considering going from the 802D to the 800D.

That's my Man.
Glenee

[eljr]

Thoughts on the Sophia's vs 800d's???

[Briz vegas]

I've heard 802D on Electrocompaniet (in shop) and Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 7 on Plinius (in someone's home) and they both sound fabulous. Any decision would be based on personal preference and a long home demo of both. For me it would probably come down to looks and other factors - that is partly because without the long in home demo I could not say one sounded better than the other. I think at this level the decision is really really hard as it all sounds amazing so long as it is set up and matched properly. In a way that makes the decision easy - ie there is no wrong decision (providing you have the cash) - a real win .....or win.

I would be surprised in the Sophia's were not amazing also.

[Relentless]

Thoughts on the Sophia's vs 800d's???

The dealer that I listened to the C4's was the only Wilson dealer in my area and they stopped carrying them and started carrying Sonus Fabor instead. The guy said that the they just didn't like the tweeter that Wilson is using now. I haven't had a chance to audition the Sophia's so I can not comment on them personally but I would think that the 802D's would be more in there league and the 800D's would go up against the Watt Puppy's.

[Relentless]

I went and listened to the 800D's again today and I noticed the cables they were using....
I found them interesting so I looked them up on the net and gees $24000.00 for a pair. That's more than the pair of speakers h:

I also noticed they were using the plate that comes with the speaker between the upper and lower posts instead of a jumper. I found it odd so I asked and the guy that was helping me said that people keep stealing the good ones so they just put the stock one on. :M

[Glenee]

I went and listened to the 800D's again today and I noticed the cables they were using....
I found them interesting so I looked them up on the net and gees $24000.00 for a pair. That's more than the pair of speakers h:

I also noticed they were using the plate that comes with the speaker between the upper and lower posts instead of a jumper. I found it odd so I asked and the guy that was helping me said that people keep stealing the good ones so they just put the stock one on. :M

Absolute snake oil. In the worst way. Our sponsor Cat Cables has some very nice cables.
Glenee

[Guy]

I've heard 802D on Electrocompaniet (in shop) and Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 7 on Plinius (in someone's home) and they both sound fabulous. Any decision would be based on personal preference and a long home demo of both. For me it would probably come down to looks and other factors - that is partly because without the long in home demo I could not say one sounded better than the other. I think at this level the decision is really really hard as it all sounds amazing so long as it is set up and matched properly. In a way that makes the decision easy - ie there is no wrong decision (providing you have the cash) - a real win .....or win.

I would be surprised in the Sophia's were not amazing also.

Nobody in this forum seems to use Electrocompaniet with B&Ws. They do sound good together but not as good as a MAC/B&W combo.

[toddm]

$24000 for a pair of cables? Thats pretty funny.

[RedWolf]

Back to the original question, I would stick with the 802d. I would definitely compare cabling with your equipment. I use Nordost SPM Reference on my B&W. My spouse heard the difference in the sound from the kitchen when I replaced my previous speaker wires. That is not snake oil. I would also compare other tube equipment if you like the sound. The Conrad Johnson is an excellent choice.

[Relentless]

Back to the original question, I would stick with the 802d. I would definitely compare cabling with your equipment. I use Nordost SPM Reference on my B&W. My spouse heard the difference in the sound from the kitchen when I replaced my previous speaker wires. That is not snake oil. I would also compare other tube equipment if you like the sound. The Conrad Johnson is an excellent choice.

there is a web site of this company that lets you try many different cables in your system. This is what they state..."Using our $2.5 million Cable Library, Audiophiles in the USA can access over 60 brands of cable to test in your system." Basically you have to pay 10% of the highest cable you want to audition in your system and when you finally make a choice in a cable you want to purchase you can put the 10% towards a purchase or you forfeit the money. I know someone who auditions cables through them and I can hear how you can tailor the sound of you system with different cables. Well I don't want to play the cable game until I have the components that I want first then I will change out some cables and listen for what I think is the most neutral cables. I will try the expensive cables and I know they will sound different but different doesn't always mean better. I would like to hear some Cardas Neutral Reference cables which are not there best cable but can be had at a decent price and hopefully they will do nothing to the signal but get it from one component to the other without coloring the sound. I have heard the 800D's being fed through the Transparent OPUS MM Speaker Cable and I would of loved to just put in the 10gage OFcopper cables that I am using to hear the difference from $24000 to about $30 worth of speaker cable. Would I hear $23970 worth of difference?


I know, I know we can get into the disscussion do I hear $8000 worth of difference between the 802 and the 800. For some reason I have no problem spending the money on the speakers, but I have to feel that the money can be better spent on upgrading components than on cables. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

[toddm]

you're not wrong. Spending 8000 on cables is nuts unless you derive non-audible pleasure from doing so.
At these price points I'd be putting 2k into room treatments, careful, well thought out treatments. Huge improvements in sound and easily recognized.

[akhter]

to answer op's original question, amps all the way

[Relentless]

ok I am still in the middle of selling the 802D's and upgrading to the 800D's. The amps are next on the list. I am going to take a hard listen to Classe and Mac again on the 800D's. Lucky for me there is a dealer that has 800 and the amps I want to audition some more. Well now the issue comes up with the HTM2D. I would go with CA-M400 for the mains but wouldn't that be too much for the center? I could always bi-amp a CA-2100. If going the Mac direction there is not an amp that wont blow up the center(500w) unless I go with a tube amp.

[Pedro]

I would go with CA-M400 for the mains but wouldn't that be too much for the center? I could always bi-amp a CA-2100. If going the Mac direction there is not an amp that wont blow up the center(500w) unless I go with a tube amp.

You can go with CA-M400 for the mains. And for the Center and Surround you can use CA3200 wich is a 3X200W amp

Using Mac, you have other options for the center and surround like, MC205 (5X200).

[corbelli]

Nobody in this forum seems to use Electrocompaniet with B&Ws. They do sound good together but not as good as a MAC/B&W combo.

Are you sure? :roll:

Regards.