Class CAM 350 vs Bryston 14B ST with B&W 802N - opinion

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  • amdan
    Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 72

    Class CAM 350 vs Bryston 14B ST with B&W 802N - opinion

    My local dealer had a couple of Classe CAM 350 monoblocks for sale and was kind enough to allow me to home trial. The only reason I trialed them was the loyal Classe following in this forum. Many of you maintain that Classe and B&W are an excellent match. I have also seen a few posts elsewhere saying that Bryston and B&W are a bad match. I was keen on improving my sound and thought that the Classe might do the trick.

    Note that I am happy with how the Bryston performs. However, like most audiophiles, I wondered if I could be happier.

    My current system:

    B&W 802N
    Bryston 14B ST
    Supratek Sauvignon pre-amp
    Cary 303/300 CDP
    Chord Chorus & Pure Note Paragon IC
    Acoustic Zen speaker cables.
    Pure AV power conditioner for the pre-amp and CDP

    The Bryston was swapped out for the monoblocks. It was immediately apparent that the Classe was a lot smoother in the top end. There was no harshness whatsoever. The background was blacker (quieter) and there very little hiss coming from the speakers when the music was not playing. My friend who helped with the transport of the monoblocks was very impressed. I quote - 'A different world'.


    My own first impression was not favourable. Despite all the positives stated above, on the whole the system didn't grab me. The Classe's bass was definitely bigger than the Bryston but this was due to it being a more flabby rather than deeper or louder. Furthermore, the Classe lacked the attack of the Bryston. Stevie Ray Vaughn's guitar on Tin Pan Alley didn't have the realism and bite that it did with the Bryston.

    The Classe seemed to filter out some detail as well. You couldn't hear the 'venue' the way you could with the Bryston. There was no reverberation there on Tin Pan Alley or the Carpenter's 'Yesterday once more' or during the intro to Iron Maiden's 'Number of the Beast'.

    When the girl on Pink Floyd's 'One of My Turns' in 'The Wall' walks into an adjoining room to get a drink of water I can hear her voice echo differently to when she was in the main room. When she then moves to the bathroom, her voice again echoes differently again. This detail was lost when the Classe was used. The introduction to 'another Brick in The Wall - part 3' is explosive with the Bryston but polite with the Classe. Nevertheless, thanks to the Classe's smoothness and warmth, 'The Wall' album was generally more enjoyable with the Classe than the Bryston.

    With the Classe each instrument and the vocals seemed bigger in the soundstage. Each instrument and vocals occupied a larger space than with the Bryston. The soundstage size on both were identical.

    The Classe was brilliant with female vocals. I found that the Bryston portrayed female vocals more realistically but the Classe made them beautiful to listen to.

    Clearly the amp of choice is going to be a matter of not only taste but the type of music played. I can see why a lot of people favour the Classe.

    It would be interesting to do a survey of the participants in this forum to find out what music they listen to, their speaker type and the amp. We may be able to pick up some trends. For instance, do those of us with 802 and 800 models prefer the Bryston over the Classe since these models have bigger woofers? Do those of us who listen to jazz prefer the Classe over the Bryston?
    Last edited by amdan; 10 August 2007, 04:44 Friday. Reason: Spelling error
  • dmccombs
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 306

    #2
    Amdan,

    I have the CAM-350s driving 802Ds. I think they are a good match. I haven't compared them to Bryston amps, but have compared them to a few different Krell amps.

    Compared the the Krell amps, they had a little less detail in the mids, and the Krell bass was much stronger and detailed. But the Classe highs are amazing. I came to the conlusion that the Krell amps are probably better for rock, and the Classe for female vocals.

    But, I have added a JL Audio f112 sub into the mix sometimes. This takes care of any bass issues (to my satisfaction anyway).

    With plain-jane speaker and interconnects, the Classe soundstage is so-so, but once I put decent cables into the mix, the sound stage is pretty good, but still not as defined as the krell. But, overall, I chose the Classe over the Krells.

    I am curious, when you compared the amps, did you use the same cables for both?

    Darrell

    Comment

    • amdan
      Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 72

      #3
      Darrell,

      All the cables were identical aside from the power cables to the amps. I couldn't use the same cables as the Bryston has a 15Amp IEC and the Classe's use 10amp IECs. Also the Classe's were monoblocks versus a stereo Bryston amp.

      What did you mean when you said that the Krell had a stronger bass. Did you mean that it was louder and/or deeper?

      Comment

      • dmccombs
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 306

        #4
        The Krell's bass was louder, deeper, more detailed. They are kinda in a class by themselves that way. The Krells are great for rock music.

        Comment

        • Greg Gale
          Member
          • Nov 2006
          • 49

          #5
          I also own N802 and evaluated the Bryston 4BSST and the 14BSST versus an Ayre V1XE and a new Delta Series CA2200.

          My wife and I by far preferrred the new Classe CA2200 versus the Ayre and especially versus the Bryston.

          The Classe was much smoother in the midrange and treble and the bass sounded cleaner. The soundstage with the Classe seemed to stretch wall to wall and the sound was much more organic and realistic sounding.

          I am not sure how the new Delta series comparies versus the CAM 350's but it matches with the N802 very well.

          We had the Bryston 14BSST in place for almost one week and exchanged with the CA2200 and my wife said the Bryston sounded flat. After having the CA2200 in place there was no going back and I purchased the unit.

          The rest of my system is:

          Ayre K5xe preamp
          Marantz SA14 SACD
          Rega P25 with Dynavector 20X with GSP Era Gold phone amp

          It may just be a system synergy deal but I am extremely happy with the sound.

          Good luck and happy listening.
          Last edited by Greg Gale; 12 August 2007, 10:20 Sunday.
          Greg Gale

          Main System:
          802 D2
          Classe CA2300
          Ayre K5XEMP
          Graham Slee Reflex M
          Esoteric X-05 SACD
          VPI Classic 3
          Dynavector X20x2
          Oppo BDP 95

          Comment

          • amdan
            Member
            • Sep 2006
            • 72

            #6
            Originally posted by dmccombs
            The Krell's bass was louder, deeper, more detailed. They are kinda in a class by themselves that way. The Krells are great for rock music.
            Darrell,

            Which Krell did you audition? Will the KAV 400 be sufficient for the 802N?

            Comment

            • amdan
              Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 72

              #7
              Greg,

              What type of music do you listen to most? I wonder if our preferences are due to type of music we listen to rather than system synergy.

              Comment

              • Greg Gale
                Member
                • Nov 2006
                • 49

                #8
                Originally posted by amdan
                Greg,

                What type of music do you listen to most? I wonder if our preferences are due to type of music we listen to rather than system synergy.
                I listen primarily to Classic Rock and the bass punch and ability to produce room suddering bass was equal to or better than the Bryston.


                Even though the Bryston 14BSSt was rated at 600watts per channel it did not sound as dynamic as the Classe with 200 wpc.

                I was looking for an amplfier to replace my older Classe CA201 which would sound better and play louder and thought the Bryston would be the ticket. I was used to the smoothness of my previous Classe and bottom line is the Bryston was too much in your face and caused listening fatigue.

                In fact my wife and I listend to Bryston (which was well broken in by way) on several different pieces of music and we both said at the same time the Bryston "does not sound as smooth" as the Classe which has outstanding midrange and treble and very clean bass lines.

                Just on a side note during the development of the new 802D the Delta series amps were used in development of the speaker which is one of the reasons it should make a good match.

                Good luck in finding something that will make you happy.
                Greg Gale

                Main System:
                802 D2
                Classe CA2300
                Ayre K5XEMP
                Graham Slee Reflex M
                Esoteric X-05 SACD
                VPI Classic 3
                Dynavector X20x2
                Oppo BDP 95

                Comment

                • dmccombs
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 306

                  #9
                  I have owned the following Krell amps: Kav-300il, Kav 250a, Kav 250a/3
                  I have home auditioned: S1500, Kav-400xi

                  Currently, I have Classe CAM-350 amp for LCR, and Classe CA-201 for the rear.

                  The 802 speakers like power, and the 400xi is a nice Integrated amp. It would work nicely on the 802s if you have a small to medium room. Used with a decent source, the 400xi is a nice sounding unit. If the room is medium to large, then the 400xi may not be enough.

                  Originally posted by amdan
                  Darrell,

                  Which Krell did you audition? Will the KAV 400 be sufficient for the 802N?

                  Comment

                  • amdan
                    Member
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 72

                    #10
                    Thanks Darrell.

                    Comment

                    • Mig17
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 169

                      #11
                      i think 4BSST is quite enough

                      Comment

                      • caleb
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 514

                        #12
                        Originally posted by amdan
                        I have also seen a few posts elsewhere saying that Bryston and B&W are a bad match.

                        Show me the posts where this is said please.

                        I have 7BSST for my 800Ds and would not part with them (maybe except for the new 28BSST!).

                        Comment

                        • DM3000 Owner
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 475

                          #13
                          Originally posted by caleb
                          Show me the posts where this is said please.

                          I have 7BSST for my 800Ds and would not part with them (maybe except for the new 28BSST!).
                          I have 7BST's and a friend said to me that I could do better on amps. He suggested the Classe 350 (he has never heard them). I am quite happy and after reading this thread I don't see myself changing. I like a lot of detail.

                          I read a lot of threads sating that Brystons are too bright. I heard a lot of speakers at CES that were way too bright, maybe it was the conditions. In any event, mine are not bright at all and I am quite happy.

                          Comment

                          • 1oldguy
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 459

                            #14
                            Hi

                            I just bought the 800 series from b& w ........What I am wondering is?......Since the 802D is rated for 500 watts and the Bryston 28sst ( Of which I am considering buying), is rated at 1000 watts, would I destroy the speakers putting twice the wattage they are rated for?I Also wondering what is the Ratio here with regard to what the speaker is rated for ?.I am thinking there must be a limit somewhere .
                            Can anyone set me straight here?
                            A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                            Comment

                            • Glen B
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 1106

                              #15
                              You will be fine. More power is safer than using an underpowered amp. Driving an underpowered amp to its limits will produce clipping distortion which can damage your speakers. With a high powered amp you can often tell when you're pushing your speakers too hard and back off on the volume before damage occurs.


                              Comment

                              • Orb
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 147

                                #16
                                I guess if someone is just after an amp it can be rather difficult because I do think in quite a few cases there must be a consideration between the synergy of the pre and power amp.
                                This means ideally when trying amps there are a few pre amps to mix and match to see if this affects the sound.

                                I was lucky to be in the situation of looking for both a pre and power some time ago, and from my experience I do feel there is a synergy between the two products in quite a few cases.
                                When looking for just one of the two, then there is possibly the added complexity of it working at its best with whatever is in your house.

                                I am not saying you must buy both at same time, just food for thought and a consideration that possibly not all pre and power amps work well together, or more likely bring out the best of the product.

                                Cheers
                                Orb

                                Comment

                                • DM3000 Owner
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jun 2006
                                  • 475

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by 1oldguy
                                  Hi

                                  I just bought the 800 series from b& w ........What I am wondering is?......Since the 802D is rated for 500 watts and the Bryston 28sst ( Of which I am considering buying), is rated at 1000 watts, would I destroy the speakers putting twice the wattage they are rated for?I Also wondering what is the Ratio here with regard to what the speaker is rated for ?.I am thinking there must be a limit somewhere .
                                  Can anyone set me straight here?
                                  Are you considering buying 800D's in the future and retaining the amp that youare buying now? It just seems like you do not need that much power and may be throwing money away.

                                  The 7B SST or Classe CA M400 each have plenty of power to drive 802 and up. Of course if you have a huge room and listen at really high DB's you may need more power for the bigger speakers.

                                  I have had no problem with lack of power on N801's or S800's using 7B ST or Classe CAM 350's (yes, I eventually swithced).

                                  Comment

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