803Ds Classe, Krell, Denon's high-end Combo

[Andorian]

Hi,

Since recently I own a pair of 803Ds.
I am comparing the ""perfect"" two-channel combination (price range approx $10.000/12.000).

I auditioned the 803Ds, combinating
with Denon PMA-SA1, DCD-SA1.
the new flagship of Denon stereo.

(for a complete picture, i should add here, with Audioquest
Pikespeaks for boxes, and Cheetah silver interconnetor.).

I listned to a wide variety of modern, classic pop and true classical musics.

The result is stunning, both get fully matched to each other.
it brings a fully developed vivid sound that gets the tweeter shining and the low ends are so balanced. The best lowends thusfar that came out of these ones. Marantz ard Rotel did not make the same depth. Also the image in live recondings was clearly audible.

Most likely the CD player, is most of the reason for this.
The sound is direct, although far less than i am used to with other denon combi.

In two weeks time i'll get a chance to play with Classe equivalents.
i am curious what will happen, there.

Overall I am clearly impressed by the combi.
Any one else has the opprtunity to listen this?
greetings, Andor.

[Aussie Geoff]

Andorian,

5:1 on you like the Classe better

Geoff

[Andorian]

Hi Geoff,

The dealer will get the whole line.
can you elaborate for me on with combo apparatus I should try there first.
(budget-range limit: $10.000-15.000).

CAP-2100 vs

CA2100/2200
prea-amp 500,

CDP-100.

thanks, Andor.

Andorian,

5:1 on you like the Classe better

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Andorian.

Try www.classeaudio.com for some good reference material....

However (in short).

The CAP-2100 is an integrated 100W a channel stereo amplifier which is effectively the CP-500 preprocessor and CA-2100 in one box... A nice unit and (to my ears) significantly more revealing of the inner life in the music than the Denons...

I woudn't buy the CA-2100 on its own as the CAP-2100 is better value...

The CA-2200 is a 200W stereo amplifier that you need to use with the CP-500. This will sound very similar to the CAP-2100 at low to medium volumes but can drive speakers like the 803Ds better as the voluem rises or the bass levels increase... Perfect for them and used by some of the senior B&W 800 series engineers in their personal systems...

The CDP-100 is Classe's only CD player and is a very nice unit - right up there with some of the top 10 in the world...

Another (slighly cheaper) option to consider are the Bel Canto Evo 2i Integrated Amp and a good CD player (you may not be able to afford the Bel Canto Player 1A as well but could consider other options including the Denon CD player you are looking at... These digital amps are seriously awesome on B&Ws as well (amazing bass and treble...) Try http://www.belcantodesign.com/

Both (which I have heard) will (for my ears) "eat" the Denons you are considering... Why - well IMO mainly in the amplifiers ability to drive the speakers... The Denons, while very dynamic and clean, just seem to (for my ears) leave out a layer of "life" in the music that you only realise once you compare... However also both sound remarkably different so you are advised to try and listen if at all possible...

What price can the dealers do for you in your country?

PS - Of course - as with all audio - sound at this level is very subjective - so you may like different things...

Geoff

[Andorian]

Thanks for your advice,

I ll definately compare the two options above.
I am aiming at the CA2200/500 combo, that is well within my budget.

I do read that ""concern"" (on the musical feeling) more often regarding the denon sets, this one was for sure a lot more audiophile than the other consumer models. And the DCD-SA1 is a good one (and with SACD, as compared to the CDP-100).

My other question is, will the CDP-100 live up to the Denon DCD-sa1.
And Despite earlier news the Classe CDP-300 (which is coming) does not support SACD.

The CA2200/500/CDP-100 would do approx $12.000 here, I think.

How about combining the CA2200/500/Denon-dcd-SA1?
My local dealer is not yet a Classe one, he will get the models in advance for evaluation! (Read so he then must split sets later!)

greetings, Andor.

Andorian.

Try www.classeaudio.com for some good reference material....

However (in short).

The CAP-2100 is an integrated 100W a channel stereo amplifier which is effectively the CP-500 preprocessor and CA-2100 in one box... A nice unit and (to my ears) significantly more revealing of the inner life in the music than the Denons...

I woudn't buy the CA-2100 on its own as the CAP-2100 is better value...


The CA-2200 is a 200W stereo amplifier that you need to use with the CP-500. This will sound very similar to the CAP-2100 at low to medium volumes but can drive speakers like the 803Ds better as the voluem rises or the bass levels increase... Perfect for them and used by some of the senior B&W 800 series engineers in their personal systems...

The CDP-100 is Classe's only CD player and is a very nice unit - right up there with some of the top 10 in the world...

Another (slighly cheaper) option to consider are the Bel Canto Evo 2i Integrated Amp and a good CD player (you may not be able to afford the Bel Canto Player 1A as well but could consider other options including the Denon CD player you are looking at... These digital amps are seriously awesome on B&Ws as well (amazing bass and treble...) Try http://www.belcantodesign.com/

Both (which I have heard) will (for my ears) "eat" the Denons you are considering... Why - well IMO mainly in the amplifiers ability to drive the speakers... The Denons, while very dynamic and clean, just seem to (for my ears) leave out a layer of "life" in the music that you only realise once you compare... However also both sound remarkably different so you are advised to try and listen if at all possible...

What price can the dealers do for you in your country?

PS - Of course - as with all audio - sound at this level is very subjective - so you may like different things...

Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Andorian,

How about combining the CA2200/500/Denon-dcd-SA1?

I like this idea - well worth comparing. As a generalisation - Denon have been better at making CD / DVD players with great sound than amps - you may find this a good combo.

Geoff

[Andorian]

Krell vs Classe

Hi,

Krell vs Classe on 803D,

Any more info from someone on these two options.
both in quality compared, and "subject musically feelling of the combination""
and for Krell the best units to use I am new in these...
Andor.

[johan]

Hi Andorian, I have a Krell Fpb 300cx driving my N802's and I am very happy with it. I had decided to buy Classe Delta 3200 but changed my mind when I came across a used Krell for less money than the Classe would have cost. I have listened to Classe with 802's many times and I think the "tone" is qiute similar to my Krell, very warm and sweet natural sounding. However there are two noticable differences; the bass of the Krell is more powerful, yet not in an exaggerated way, just totally seamless bass output. The other thing is soundstage, Krell have a bigger and more precise soundstage, but maybe Classe have a blacker backround. Anyway its a close call and I am sure I would not have regret it if I had went with Classe and the differences I described are maybe in order considering a new Krell is almost twice the price of the Classe. If you look at a new Krell in the same pricerange as the Classe 2200 it could be the other way around, I believe the 2200 is hard to beat in its price range.

Anyway keep us updated in your trying out. Good luck!

[Andorian]

Hi, Johan and others,

Ok, thank I ll listen the classe 2200 this weekend,
most likely I will be stunned anyway, my dealer informed me recently that the 803ds were attached to CAP2100, cdp-100 when I bought them a few month back.

Johan can you say more on the bass response is it more tight/controlled or relative more pronounced louder on same the volume in the Krell vs classe.

Tight and controlled we all like, i think, but personally i do not mind hearing relatively more high and mid range tones.

Then I have to find out where and how to listen to Krell stuff, ill ask.

Few more questions will ca-3200 do any for 2-ch stereo (or is it just one more channel that i dont need) compared to ca-2200.

greetings, Andor.

Hi Andorian, I have a Krell Fpb 300cx driving my N802's and I am very happy with it. I had decided to buy Classe Delta 3200 but changed my mind when I came across a used Krell for less money than the Classe would have cost. I have listened to Classe with 802's many times and I think the "tone" is qiute similar to my Krell, very warm and sweet natural sounding. However there are two noticable differences; the bass of the Krell is more powerful, yet not in an exaggerated way, just totally seamless bass output. The other thing is soundstage, Krell have a bigger and more precise soundstage, but maybe Classe have a blacker backround. Anyway its a close call and I am sure I would not have regret it if I had went with Classe and the differences I described are maybe in order considering a new Krell is almost twice the price of the Classe. If you look at a new Krell in the same pricerange as the Classe 2200 it could be the other way around, I believe the 2200 is hard to beat in its price range.

Anyway keep us updated in your trying out. Good luck!

[johan]

Andor,

The bass is a bit more punchy with the Krell, it kicks harder and is tighter. Tonal balance is similar I think. Both are warm not muddy, bright not harsh.
CA 3200 is just one more channel you dont need.

[Andorian]

Hi,

Is this model discontinued?
I went to krell but could not find it (A lot of other praizing links btw on the model, so this one must be very good).

Is there a follow up, if so?
More expensive most likely!
And can I expect the same of the KAV models, probably not, right?
Thanks, Andor.

Andor,

The bass is a bit more punchy with the Krell, it kicks harder and is tighter. Tonal balance is similar I think. Both are warm not muddy, bright not harsh.
CA 3200 is just one more channel you dont need.

[johan]

Hi Andor,

This is it:

http://www.krellonline.com/html/m_ClassA_p_FPBs_300cx.html

This is the current Class A range, it has not been around for too long so I think they will be around for some time.
I dont know anything about KAV or any other Krell other than what I've read. But I know there are some guys on this forum that uses KAV with 802's, 803's. I dont remember their names but look around for threads about amps, you should be able to find something.

[sikoniko]

my dealer uses that amp to push 802d's. sounds great.

[Andorian]

Hi,

Just a small update and an issue for the future,
I am going to listen to the Classe 2200 combo, this weekend,
and excited I am. My 803Ds (the dealers copy!) will be tested seriously.
I am convinced that i like what i am going to hear, The Krell is to much $$$ would do alone roughly 15.000 here, at the moment!


My room is way to small to justify 802D as yet, if I move oneday/someday...( and replenish my currencies

One small question for the future, will the 802Ds take the Classe 2200 combo.
I ll keep you posted,

greetings, Andor.