Denon with B&W

[JayHT]

Hello

This is my first post here and I would like to say hello to everyone . I will hopefully be joining the B&W club hopefully fairly soon with my new HT purchase. I’m looking in to getting:

803D
HTM2D
805S 2 pairs
ASW 855
Rotel RB 1092
Rotel RMB 1095

The only component that I am stuck on is the preamp. I am looking in to getting the Denon AVR-4308CI, once it is released, for use as a preamp. A B&W dealer that I was talking to was saying that going with a receiver for a preamp would be a bad choice and that the system would be hindered by it. Is this true? Will I lose a lot of sound quality by going with the Denon for a preamp? Also I am deciding between the Rotel RDV1092 DVD player and Denon DVD-2930Ci DVD player. Which would be the better player for use with the system or will I not hear a difference since the preamp will be doing the decoding?


Thanks

JayHT

[rick c]

This is just my .02.For what you will be paying for the denon i bet you could get some quality seperates,especially for those speakers.And if you have to have a receiver i would get something like a rotel rec. and add a good amp.It would probably be better than the denon and cost you less also.But i'm a novice,but i'm sure you'll get some great opinions here.

[Blindamood]

That sounds like one heck of a system you have spec'd out, but I have to agree with a Rotel (or B&K, Arcam, Anthem, etc.) being a much better choice for a processor. As for the DVD player, you'll get much farther with the Denon for sure. Also plays SACD, if you're at all concerned about that.

[hifiguymi]

I can see where you are going with the Denon receiver as the preamp. Since Rotel doesn't currently have a preamp that has all of the newer features - HDMI switching, decoding of the new surround formats, etc - the Denon will be a stop gap. It will not sound as good as a Rotel preamp, but it will be very salable in the next year, when Rotel does have a preamp with all of those features, to upgrade from. I sell both lines and have done direct comparisons and the Rotel pieces always outperform the Denon units.

As far as the DVD players, I personally really like the Rotel. I have looked at the DVD-3930CI and the RDV-1092/3 side by side on the same display and the Rotel looked better to me. It was smoother and had more film like presentation. It was very close however. The DVD-2930CI is not as good as the RDV-1092/3 or the DVD-3930CI in my opinion. If SACD is a factor, then there is no choice, but my guess is it's not or you wouldn't be asking.

One other thing I'll bring up unsolicited. Did you think about getting an RB-1091 for the center channel and maybe two RB-1072 amps for the rears? I know it would be more money, but it would be the better option for the center channel to have the same power and same amp "voice" as the left and right. Just a thought.

I hope this helps.

Eric

[JayHT]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes the main reason I am looking at Denon for the receivers is because of the HDMI and new surround decoding. I really would like to get a Rotel preamp. I won't be purchasing the system probably till the end of the year maybe early next year so I am hoping that Rotel may release or mention a new model around that time. I was looking at the upcoming NAD T175 preamp, it has a lot of features including HDMI 1.3 but will not include the new surround formats, should i be concerned with this? I know that the Blue ray and HD DVD players can do the decoding, but will i notice a difference if the players do the decoding over the preamp?

hifiguymi

Yes I was considering the amp set up, I know it’s more money but not to much more and I may go with it. Also I see mentioned the RDV-1093 DVD player from Rotel. Is it being released soon? I seen the user manual on their site, I wasn’t able to download it, so I thought maybe it an older model. Is this a new model and if so how does it compare to the RDV-1092?


Thanks

JayHT

[DeepEndX]

If you want to drive your speakers to the fullest potential, the Denon is not going to cut it. But if you only using your system for HT purposes, it should be fine.

Why don't you ask your dealer to demo it and do a comparison? If you can't tell the differences then you should just go for the cheapest setup.
RH

[jayhawk75]

i am using approx the same system except 804s for rears ands 2 svs subs.
currently 1092 for fronts 1091 for center. started with a 1067 so i am using that currently for the processor and rears. short story... rotel is rumoring new rotels this fall/winter with the bells and whistles i and you are looking for. your timetable fits that window so concentrate on speakers and amps and hold off on denon purchase.

[hifiguymi]

It's not that big of a deal if a preamp or receiver doesn't do DD+ or dtsHD. All of the players that I know of do the decoding and send out PCM to the preamp or receiver. If you are a game player, then it maybe important. I don't know if game consoles and/or computers do the decoding.

The last time I talked to my rep about it, he thought Rotel will show, at least in prototype form, new preamps and receivers at CEDIA in September. If not at CEDIA then for sure at CES in January. There are a lot of us that are waiting impatiently for that to happen.

The RDV-1093 is replacing the RDV-1092 and is shipping now. The RDV-1093 is now RoHS compliant - no lead in it's manufacture - and has a few updates to improve speed in menus and operation. Other than that, it's the same player.

Keep us updated on your progress and decisions for your system.

Eric

[style]

pre

@JayHT
if do you will buy a preampli for the new sound decoding /all what ist High definition/, hdmi upscaling , scaler up 1080p/24,XLR...) see a ANTHEM D2.
Halgro SSP100 is too very good.

with a so like that speakers the Denon is not a good choice.
I live in europa and i have a 803s,805shtm3s,750sub, Rotel Rsp1068, 2xRB1092 one rear and one mains plus a RB1091 mono for the center.

I go buy a new pre and I think the Anthem will be for me the perfect solution.

The Classè/MC or so lie that are overpreicing!!
-------------
DVD the Rotel 1092/3 have a good look but for me the Denon is better.
Pesonaly I have a 3930 and a HDEX1 toshiba. The Rotel vs. Denon lose.

Omar

[JayHT]

Thanks for the replies

Sorry for the slow response I have been busy the last few days.

I will hold off on the Denon receiver and will take a look into Anthem and NAD. I know NAD is going to be releasing a new preamp the T175 which looks very promising and will have HDMI 1.3 but will not have the new surround formats, which won't be a problem since the player will do the decoding. Since I won't be purchasing till the end of the year/next year, I will keep an eye to see if Rotel announces and releases any new units. I know that they are about to release their new receiver RSX-1058 which might be what I am looking for.

I will surely keep you all posted on the progress. When I was looking for the system, it was between the Paradigm Signatures version 2 and the B&W 800 series. I have always for the longest time heard them in different stores, and liked the sound of both which made it difficult to decide. I finally got the chance to listen to them side by side (Paradigm S8 and B&W 803D) and while I liked the sound of both, the B&W were better sounding speakers. They sounded more open and less congested in the midrange, where the Paradigms sounded closed in and congested almost as if they are trying to force the sound into the room. This difference is what sold me on the B&W's

JayHT

[Pedro]

Congrats for the big choice Mr Jay

How can you compare the highfreq of S8 with the 803D?? I´ve heard 803D sometime and the highs wasnt bright or harsh, and sounded like a softdome speaker, without having that typical mid and high of other B&Ws.

About the electronic, if cant go now, in the future go with Classe CA2200 + CP700 Pré and be happy for all eternity I´ve heard them with Gamut D3+D200MK3 and outstands in any ways.

[RebelMan]

When I was looking for the system, it was between the Paradigm Signatures version 2 and the B&W 800 series. I have always for the longest time heard them in different stores, and liked the sound of both which made it difficult to decide.

Interesting Jay, do you live in Phoenix? I ran into the same delima comparing the two brands, the S1s and 800s specifically, a few years ago and found it a bit challenging too going between two different locations. Eventually, I was able to formulate an opinion that the Paradigms were a good runner up to the B&W's on sound but when price was considered I thought you got a little more bang for the buck with them.

[mafoo]

Thanks for the replies


I will hold off on the Denon receiver and will take a look into Anthem and NAD. I know NAD is going to be releasing a new preamp the T175 which looks very promising and will have HDMI 1.3 but will not have the new surround formats, which won't be a problem since the player will do the decoding.
JayHT

I haven't seen anything conclusive that the T175 will NOT have the surround bitstreams over hdmi 1.3. Where did you get your info? At any rate, this seems pretty minor even if it doesn't have it as long as PCM is there. (this is a favorite topic/debate on this and other forums so I won't belabor)

[JayHT]

Thanks for the replies

Pedro

Thanks , I will definitely take a look into Classe, sadly though I don't think my dealer carries them anymore . As for the highs between the S8's and 803D's I found them to be fairly close, with the B&W's being cleaner and more open without being bright. Like you I didn't find the highs bright at all.

RebelMan

No I do not live in Phoenix, I currently live in Canada. I agree, going between the S8's and 803D between different stores even different rooms made if very difficult to decide and hear the differences. Overall they preformed equally well, especially with movies. I had a harder time hearing a difference with movies than music. The highs and bass were fairly close with the B&W's edging them out, but I found the midrange of the B&W's to be much better, being much more open , much more cleaner and clearer than the S8's where they sounded closed in a congested. I also agree that the Paradigm are a great value speaker and will make their owners very happy.

mafoo

Yes unfortunately it won't have the sound formats. I emailed NAD before posting here and they replied that the new formats will not be included with the T175. I'm not sure on their reasoning behind it but they said they currently have no plans. I'm hoping maybe before they release it they may change their minds and decide to add the new formats since companies like Denon and Sherwood are adding HDMI 1.3 with the new formats In their products.

Thanks Again

JayHT

[noah katz]

"he new formats will not be included with the T175. I'm not sure on their reasoning behind it but they said they currently have no plans."

Because most DHDVD and BD discs will be authored in Advanced mode, meaning audio other than the movie itself won't be available unless decoded in the player.

Convincing consumers that they need the decoders in receivers is marketing.