B&W vs B&O Beolab 5

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  • Nolan B
    Super Senior Member
    • Sep 2005
    • 1792

    B&W vs B&O Beolab 5

    At what level of B&W speaker do you think starts to out do the B&O Beolab 5s? I know this would be a hard question to answer becuase I bet a lot of people havnot auditioned the Beolab 5s. B&O has got some slack in the past for quality, but I must admit the Beolab 5s sound great. Do you think they are at the 802D range, or perhaps only as good as 700s?

    Friend of mine just bought them and feel they are as good as you can get :roll:

    For 22k I didnt want to make him feel bad.

    Assume the B&Ws are being powered by a Rotel Class D to be fare with amplification.
  • Lewing
    Member
    • Oct 2004
    • 72

    #2
    Hello

    I never heard of B&O Beolab 5s, so i am not sure if there are at the 802 range or not. But if i am able to put 22k into a pair of speaker i almost certain i would rather get a pair of B&W 800D :B
    Live to Eat, Live to enjoy Music :T

    http://community.webshots.com/user/lewing79

    Comment

    • DM3000 Owner
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2006
      • 475

      #3
      Originally posted by Vancouver
      At what level of B&W speaker do you think starts to out do the B&O Beolab 5s? I know this would be a hard question to answer becuase I bet a lot of people havnot auditioned the Beolab 5s. B&O has got some slack in the past for quality, but I must admit the Beolab 5s sound great. Do you think they are at the 802D range, or perhaps only as good as 700s?

      Friend of mine just bought them and feel they are as good as you can get :roll:

      For 22k I didnt want to make him feel bad.

      Assume the B&Ws are being powered by a Rotel Class D to be fare with amplification.
      For $22K tell him that they are great. If he listens to your 802D and likes them more, great. If not, let him be happy... :B

      Comment

      • Russ L
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2006
        • 544

        #4
        Amazing looking speaker...looks like an orbiting satellite. With 2500 watts of ICE amplification/speaker! They claim the sweet spot is the whole room. I'd sure like to hear them to see if they live up to the promo material. Isn't ICE amplification in the new Rotel RB-1092? Best regards, Russ
        Russ

        Comment

        • yannparis
          Junior Member
          • May 2007
          • 28

          #5
          Beolab 5 are good loudspeaker but are not produced for audiophile.

          You do not have the High definition of a 802D in the medium, you have an 'Ice power treble quality' and a poor imaging compared with a 802D.

          The main quality compared with the 802D:
          > Integrated ampliers & bass management. The bass could be compared with a Velodyne DD15, thanks to 4 ways alowing a 15" long throw bass driver, EQualization and 1000W. The lower bass is better than the bass provided by the 801D
          > Easy to use in any position in any room - Large sweet sport.

          The price as to be compared with 802D + 2*DD15 + 2 *1000W Icepower amps and 2* 500W Icepower amps.



          Regards

          Yann

          Comment

          • Briz vegas
            Super Senior Member
            • Mar 2005
            • 1199

            #6
            Certainly does look pretty amazing. Maybe I should go listen to these just for fun.
            Attached Files
            Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
            Siamese :evil: :twisted:

            Comment

            • Aussie Geoff
              Super Senior Member
              • Oct 2003
              • 1914

              #7
              Hi,

              The Beolabs are very forgiving of room positioning and even more of the listeners position. Providing the room is not too bright or reflective they can fill the room with sound and you get a sense of stereo from a wide range of locations. However being relatively point source omnidirectional - the stereo imaging is not as precise. But hey you can hear it all over the room and they sound impressive... Indeed they are detailed and punch so most things sound impresive...

              So for many people (if you have a lazy $22K to spend) they are a interesting choice.... Not great value (but non of the B&O stuff is) but aesthetically impressive and can really pump out some sound.


              Geoff

              Comment

              • bigburner
                Super Senior Member
                • May 2005
                • 2649

                #8
                Originally posted by Briz vegas
                Certainly does look pretty amazing. Maybe I should go listen to these just for fun.
                Keep Doctor Who's number handy in case they give you any trouble.

                Comment

                • pbarach
                  Member
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 67

                  #9
                  Originally posted by bigburner
                  Keep Doctor Who's number handy in case they give you any trouble.
                  "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!" (that was my first thought when I saw them, too...the Daleks are back)

                  Comment

                  • Briz vegas
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 1199

                    #10
                    pot calling kettle black maybe ????


                    Attached Files
                    Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
                    Siamese :evil: :twisted:

                    Comment

                    • ac81017
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 175

                      #11
                      Beolab 5

                      My father has a pair of beolab 5s, and as with most B&o, it´s only the looks that are good. My 602s3 and asw750 sound better! The midrange is very harsh when you raise the volume, the tweeter is even worse than my 602s3, and I think that my 602s3 are a bit harsh at times! Sure, they have a lot of power, the bass is not tight at all, the bass booooooms alot! They do sound alot like my old Cerwin-vega dc15 loud and clear, perfect to party with and nothing more! :T

                      Comment

                      • Playdrv4me
                        Junior Member
                        • Jun 2014
                        • 6

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ac81017
                        My father has a pair of beolab 5s, and as with most B&o, it´s only the looks that are good. My 602s3 and asw750 sound better! The midrange is very harsh when you raise the volume, the tweeter is even worse than my 602s3, and I think that my 602s3 are a bit harsh at times! Sure, they have a lot of power, the bass is not tight at all, the bass booooooms alot! They do sound alot like my old Cerwin-vega dc15 loud and clear, perfect to party with and nothing more! :T
                        Would you believe I registered for this entire forum, just to reply to this 7 year old thread?

                        The only reason I did so, is that I just happen to have BOTH a pair of 802Ds and BeoLab 5s sitting in front of me in my listening room, and I must say, that I do not feel in any way shape or form that my 802Ds just mop the floor with the BeoLab 5s. The only exception to this may be a slightly more natural low-midrange area, but this is a minor complaint compared to what follows further down on the frequency scale.

                        The main problem I have ALWAYS had with the 802D after leaving my FIRST pair of BL5, especially in rooms that are not very large, is that the bass frequencies are extremely sloppy and the woofers are slow (which is why I find the comment above rather confounding). On another forum, I actually heard someone comparing the "D" to the "Diamond" as saying the bass on the 802Ds is "tubby" and I could not have found a better word to describe it (this was apparently one of the issues fixed in the "Diamond"). I have a Classe CP-800 Preamp and tolerable listening requires me to bring DOWN the bass control by 1.5-2.0db, and it's still not ideal. I feel that you should NEVER have to make tone control adjustments to a good pair of speakers. Which, again, is why it is surprising, most likely as a direct effect of the Lab 5's DSP processing and room calibration, that with that massive 15 inch lump on the bottom it still manages to retain an amazingly neutral character. The "hits" and "punches" on the BL5 are so SO much tighter and controlled than on the 802D. Perhaps the 802D needs like 1000 watts of amplification to achieve the same control, but I highly doubt it.

                        I also LOVE LOVE to hear voices like they were right with me, and the midrange on the BL5 is something truly sweet. The BL5's well balanced character is not just my opinion, either: http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index...Id=34&blogId=1 . In this review you can see great frequency response charts showing what the speakers are capable of.

                        By the way, both pairs of speakers were fed by my Classe CP-800 for my listening tests, placed in the EXACT SAME positions. Neither speaker destroys the other, but when it comes to tight, controlled bass, and a forward but NOT fatiguing mid-range, the BL5 is simply the superior speaker. While the 802D does have a better treble (but again, not by a wide margin), it should considering that you're going to spend 1100.00 every single time you have to replace that damn tweeter. That you can get like new pairs of BL5 now for 15-17k is only icing on the cake. Considering that you would spend at least that giving an 802D or Diamond speaker the amplification and pre-amplification it deserves (the BL5 is a completely self contained package which has its own DAC if you so choose to use it).

                        Flame suit activated. Carry on...

                        Comment

                        • mjb
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 1483

                          #13
                          Playdrv4me, welcome to the forums
                          I've always been impressed by B&O speakers, my first speakers were B&O (can't remember which, but they had a plastic baffle which was very strange). The BL5's are omni-directional, and probably work best in the middle of a large room, or with plenty of space around them. I agree with your premise that you should never have to make pre-amp tone adjustments, but this requires a good room.
                          - Mike

                          Main System:
                          B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
                          Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100

                          Comment

                          • Playdrv4me
                            Junior Member
                            • Jun 2014
                            • 6

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mjb
                            Playdrv4me, welcome to the forums
                            I've always been impressed by B&O speakers, my first speakers were B&O (can't remember which, but they had a plastic baffle which was very strange). The BL5's are omni-directional, and probably work best in the middle of a large room, or with plenty of space around them. I agree with your premise that you should never have to make pre-amp tone adjustments, but this requires a good room.
                            Thank you for the warm welcome, Mike!

                            First let me say that re-reading my post, my intent is not to "bash" the 802D in any respect. After all, I chose them out of thousands and thousands of speaker models knowing they were used in recording studios across the globe, as I couldn't audition many before-hand. However, the speakers I auditioned were actually the 802 Diamonds, and perhaps someone here can comment as to whether the differences between these two are as great as I think they are, or more subtle. Because the Diamonds certainly did not seem to suffer from this bass control issue at the dealer. Very tight and clean bass. Space limitations also necessitate that my listening room is also my bedroom, so it could very well be that the speakers just don't have a lot of room to "breathe". The problem with that argument is, that I seem to remember that when I had the last pair of BL5 in my room, I briefly ran them in UN-calibrated "reset" mode, and there was not a big difference. So when I get back home in a couple of weeks I will reset the BL5s to make the test more even-keeled. I do not suspect any great change, however.

                            Also, Mike, our systems are very similar equipment-wise, with the exception that mine is geared toward 2 channel and yours toward HT. I have the CP-800 instead of the SSP-800, and splitting the difference between your CA-2200 and CA-5100, I simply have the CA-5200 set up to bi-amp the 802Ds using 4 of the 5 channels. It is a stout and robust piece of gear which I have had absolutely no complaints with, and which is able to double down to a 4 ohm load with ease.

                            Comment

                            • mjb
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 1483

                              #15
                              I've not seriously auditioned the newer 802 Diamond, for fear of wanting a pair (!), although I can't imagine one is bass "sloppy" and the other not. I've always thought my 802D to be very controlled. What amp did you audition them with? Perhaps you could try your pair with a couple of Mono-blocks (CAM400?), rather than bi-amping?

                              I'm extremely happy with the Classé / B&W sound, but I am thinking of switching my SSP800 for a CP800, and losing the 5100 and a few speakers. I seem to spend more time listening to music these days, but the jury is still out on the idea. The SSP800 is a great processor.
                              - Mike

                              Main System:
                              B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
                              Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100

                              Comment

                              • Playdrv4me
                                Junior Member
                                • Jun 2014
                                • 6

                                #16
                                Originally posted by mjb
                                I've not seriously auditioned the newer 802 Diamond, for fear of wanting a pair (!), although I can't imagine one is bass "sloppy" and the other not. I've always thought my 802D to be very controlled. What amp did you audition them with? Perhaps you could try your pair with a couple of Mono-blocks (CAM400?), rather than bi-amping?

                                I'm extremely happy with the Classé / B&W sound, but I am thinking of switching my SSP800 for a CP800, and losing the 5100 and a few speakers. I seem to spend more time listening to music these days, but the jury is still out on the idea. The SSP800 is a great processor.
                                I may either get a pair of MC601, or just sell it all at this point. We'll see.

                                Comment

                                • TomScrut
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Nov 2013
                                  • 532

                                  #17
                                  I have just bought 802 Diamonds, the bass is far from sloppy! I haven't listened to a speaker with as precise bass as this, but I didn't demo a lot of speakers I heard these and fell in love with the sound. I do need to eq the bass a bit but this is for the room responses rather than the speakers (4.0x3.6m), using the parametric eq. This doesn't bother me as I use the DAC in the CP800 as my source so the eq doesn't need an ADC or anything.
                                  Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                                  Comment

                                  • Playdrv4me
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Jun 2014
                                    • 6

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by TomScrut
                                    I have just bought 802 Diamonds, the bass is far from sloppy! I haven't listened to a speaker with as precise bass as this, but I didn't demo a lot of speakers I heard these and fell in love with the sound. I do need to eq the bass a bit but this is for the room responses rather than the speakers (4.0x3.6m), using the parametric eq. This doesn't bother me as I use the DAC in the CP800 as my source so the eq doesn't need an ADC or anything.
                                    Remember, the 802 Diamonds are the ones I auditioned and one generation newer than the 802"D". So I'm not surprised you don't hear any sloppy bass with the Diamond. I didn't hear any when I auditioned those, either.

                                    I don't know that any changes were made to the drivers themselves in the Diamond versus the "D", but I do know that at minimum the capacitors were changed to the same Gold/Silver oil type used in the 800 (this was implemented all the way down the line to the 804, actually), the trim rings were changed to a polished metallic surface, ,the phase plugs were changed to polished rather than black, the B&W logo went back to the full name of the company, and the speaker grille was made magnetic. Weight also mysteriously dropped some 20 or 30lb. I'm almost certain some revision would have to have been made to the drivers as well, but I'm not certain. I just know that the Diamonds I heard had no issue with bass. But of course the dealer auditioning space is considerably larger than my bedroom.

                                    On another note, I never did figure out how to use the Parametric EQ on the CP-800. I was the under impression that was left for a professional to set up. If I wanted to introduce the same sort of fantastic DSP processing as the BeoLab 5 into the 802Ds, I'd probably use a McIntosh MEN220 Room Calibrator (though I still don't think it's as good). Unfortunately that unit retails for yet *another* 5,000.00 and even on the used market it's roughly half that on a good day.

                                    I'll tell you one thing. I'm fascinated to see that other people are using the CA-5200 in the same fashion I am. I was for sure someone was going to flame me for that and accuse me of somehow putting the 802s at a disadvantage with that amp. Which frankly, would be silly considering that thing can drop down to about 380w at 4 ohm when called for.
                                    Last edited by Playdrv4me; 24 June 2014, 03:16 Tuesday.

                                    Comment

                                    • TomScrut
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Nov 2013
                                      • 532

                                      #19
                                      Yeah I knew it was the Ds you were talking about I was just emphasizing that I think they have improved this.

                                      To use the CP's PEQ you need a calibrated mic and REW and then you can generate filters from that.

                                      Yeah I use them bi amped, I have heard they perform better with monos but the 5200 is still better than most amps. I demoed the speakers with a Naim NAP300, which is wimpy in comparison to the Classe
                                      Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                                      Comment

                                      • TomScrut
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Nov 2013
                                        • 532

                                        #20
                                        I did try single amping and it didn't sound any different really but I thought I might as well make use of my channels. Next time someone is looking for a 5200 in the UK I might sell and look for a 2300
                                        Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                                        Comment

                                        • PewterTA
                                          Moderator
                                          • Nov 2004
                                          • 2901

                                          #21
                                          I listened to both the 802D and 802Diamonds side by side, track for track. To me the Diamonds are very precise in the bass, tight, quick, accurate. The 802D in comparison, and listened to RIGHT after the 802 Diamonds, feels MASSIVE. Bass, there's a LOT of it. It almost felt like there was something wrong with them. I can agree with feeling a little bloated and sloppy in some regards.

                                          If I hadn't listened to them side by side I probably say it would've been harder to notice and would've thought that the 802Ds just had more bass, but not noticed the subtle characteristic differences. It's not bad mind you, there's just more, if I had a huge room, one might appreciate it more.

                                          To me the 802Diamonds just felt more controlled and in command.

                                          Now that I've had them for 2 years now, I have no regrets over saving myself a little bit of money by buying the 802Ds.

                                          The real sweatness from the 802Diamonds to the Diamonds is the tweater, I just think it's a lot more revealing without being harsh at all (I have listened to them for 8 hours straight without any issue). Along with that I think they are much 'flatter' speaker across all the drivers, they are much more neutral than the older ones.
                                          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                          -Dan

                                          Comment

                                          • TomScrut
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Nov 2013
                                            • 532

                                            #22
                                            I don't think I could have got away with 802Ds as I have a small room and I need a bit of EQ as it is. I feared buying the more bassy of the two would cause issues (and I wanted a home demo so needed a current model). Anyway the Diamonds work awesome!
                                            Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                                            Comment

                                            • Playdrv4me
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Jun 2014
                                              • 6

                                              #23
                                              Alright boys and girls. Time to come back and update this thread.

                                              After looking for a pair of B&W 803 Diamond 2s for a while, Murphy's law reared its head and I happened across a crazy deal on a pair of 802 Diamond D2s. I *really* didn't want another 802 after my experience in this small room with the D1 but...

                                              I am delighted to report that the Diamond series really does make significant improvements to what was already an excellent speaker in the D1 (as mentioned above). This combined with switching out from a CA-5200 to a pair of MC601 monos with Mac's newer "brighter" sound has *COMPLETELY* cleaned up the "tubby" bass issues I had with the D1. So this whole time I was under the impression that the issue was the room and while it does warm the sound to a degree, the speaker was largely responsible for the bass problem.

                                              I think that in a larger room this bass heavy nature in the D1 can be eased quite a bit, but there is just no comparison in the bass performance between D1 and D2. Mind you, I did have the D1s connected to the 601 amps for a short time, too, and while it helped, it didn't solve the problem completely. Likewise, I bet if I still had the CA-5200, the D2s would sound much better even on it than the D1s did.

                                              The top end even has a smidge more sweetness to it and this is most likely primarily thanks to the upgraded HF crossover section using the Mundorf Gold-Silver oil caps that was previously available in the 800 only.

                                              So now that the bass has been resolved, I also have to say that the 802 Diamond 2 returns to being a better performer than the BL5s. They both are fantastic speakers, but the BL5s just can't help the fact that there are 7 years (at least) of development time between them and the 2nd generation of the 802D2. No telling what is to come for "D3" (or maybe a whole new speaker as this Nautilus body has been around as many iterations as the Matrix 1, 2 and 3 now!)

                                              Comment

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