802D 4.0 vs. 803S 5.1 Set-up

[KyaDawn]

I just bought a new house and am planning the home theater system. My current home theater is about 5 years old now, so I'm looking to get new everything.

For the speakers, initially I was decided on 2 B&W 803S for the front channels, the HTM3S for center, either the SCMS or DS8S for the surrounds, and the ASW825 for the sub.

However, at the B&W dealer, I also demoed the 802D speakers and they sounded amazing. In fact, much better than the 803S. Since I will be using the system for both stereo listening and watching movies equally, I think I would be happier with the 802D as my front speakers.

The issue between choosing the two is of course, budget and also space. The 802D is about twice the cost of the 803S. I could probably get away with the HTM2D as the center speaker to match the 802D, but that is still 50% more than the HTM3S.

About space, my home theatre room is long and narrow. With the 803S, I can just about fit those speakers along with the sub and the rack of equipment I'm getting in a way that makes sense. The rack itself is more wide than tall, since it will be below the flatscreen TV I'm mounting on the wall, as well as the projection screen when pulled down. With the 802D however, they are too big for me to fit them and the rack and the sub without them being too cramped.

So I'm thinking perhaps a way to go with the 802D set-up is to skip the subwoofer, and just run the .1 signal to the front speakers, since they should have more than enough bass capacity. That would solve the problem of not having enough space for the sub.

Because of cost reasons, I'm thinking of skipping the center channel speaker as well. My room is going to be narrow in the first place, and if I'm going to be sitting in the sweet spot, the stereo imaging should convey the center channel accurately. Of course, the drawback is for anyone not sitting in the sweet spot, but I don't think it will really be a noticeable issue since the room is narrow anyway.

So I've calculated that to get 802D speakers instead of the 803S, I can spend roughly the same as I had budgeted before, but I would need to skip the center speaker and subwoofer, making it a 4.0 system. If I get the 803S speakers, I can get a full 5.1 set-up, but my stereo experience of listening to music will not be as good as if I had the 802D's.

So my question is what are your thoughts on this? Will my HT experience suffer having just a 4.0 set-up? Do you think the 802D's can handle the .1 signal just fine, or do you think it would be much better with a sub? What are your thoughts on not having a center channel speaker and letting the FR and FL 802D's do all the work?

[Briz vegas]

802d

[htsteve]

5.1 with 802D's

KyaDawn,

As an 802D owner, I would have to say go with them up front. As to a 4.0 systems of 802D's, I might spend the funds a little differently. I think the configuration below will be excellent for 2 channel and also for HT. You can add a sub later.

Mains: 802D's
Center: HTM2D (Center channels are so important to HT duty)
Rears: 803S's

I use N804's as rears and they are excellent, 803S's would be awesome as rears. I think unless you are really into 5 channel high resolution audio, then 802D's are to much money to tie up in the rear channels (in the 4.0 solution).

Another thing to be aware of is the front end electronics. The Diamonds are excellent. They are even more awesome when paired with really good electronics. I have McIntosh. They work extremely well with my B&W's. 802D's crave power. They are a big step up from the 803 level speaker. Make sure to drive them well.

Also, a sub doesn't have to be at the front of the room with everything else. It can be at the back of the room. The sound is omnidirectional.

Hope this helps.

[dmccombs]

Based on your desire to do HT and 2-CH Stereo, I agree with HTSteve.

Having a a Center channel is better if your listening area is wider tha 1-person. Having a sub is important IMO for movies.

I run a system very similar to what HTSteve recommended. I have:

Front: 802D
Center: HTM2D
Rears: 804S
Sub: JL Audio F112

I think this setup is right in your price range. It allows for great 2-CH, and excellent HT sound.

Regards,
Darrell

[scanido]

The issue between choosing the two is of course, budget and also space. The 802D is about twice the cost of the 803S. I could probably get away with the HTM2D as the center speaker to match the 802D, but that is still 50% more than the HTM3S.

With the 802D however, they are too big for me to fit them and the rack and the sub without them being too cramped.

Because of cost reasons, I'm thinking of skipping the center channel speaker as well.

So my question is what are your thoughts on this? Will my HT experience suffer having just a 4.0 set-up? Do you think the 802D's can handle the .1 signal just fine, or do you think it would be much better with a sub? What are your thoughts on not having a center channel speaker and letting the FR and FL 802D's do all the work?

Sounds to me like your stretching just to get the 802D's. I would take a well balanced 5.1 system any day over just two good front speakers with mediocre electronics.What electronics do you plan on powering with those 802D's?

I ran a set of 804S without a center for half a year and when i finally got my HTM3S, movies were so much better. You can do without the center of course, but as everyone has eluded to the center is the most important speaker for movies. And yes the 802D's cannot replace a good sub!

[ninja12]

I think that you are sacrificing too much just to get the 802Ds. I know that they sound better than the 803Ss, and they should. That's a whole different league. You definitely need a center channel when you are listening to movies. The 802Ds will probably do a decent job as far as producing the LFE; but, I bet it will not do as good of a job as a good subwoofer. That's just my 2 cents. The final decision is yours. Good luck!!!!

[RNKC]

I'm on a Nautilus system now which I use primarily (80%+) for stereo listening.

N802
N HTM2
N805
no sub

I built this system over time, starting as a 2.0 system then going to 3.0 by adding the centre channel then finally adding in the N805 for the rear. One of these years I'll get around to getting an ASW8xx for the sub. I don't feel the need for a sub so it's really not a priority now.

If $$$ is a constraint, I'd suggest building up the front of the system by going 3.0. Eventually you can add the rears and sub when finances allow.

[rodH]

I agree with what has been already said. I think 802D could be a little overkill for the rears, and you would notice a lack of bass (even with the 802) and missing the information that normally comes out of a center channel. I know they image good, but not as good as a real speaker being used as a center channel. BTW, you better have incredible electronics as mentioned. Also if you are going to listen to HT, nothing replaces a well powered dedicated sub, in MOST cases.

Frankly, here is what I would do

Mains:802d
Center:HTM2D
Rear:805D (or 804)
Sub: Revel B15 or JL Audio level sub

Now that I think about it, this is pretty close to what my dad runs and the system sounds great.

Just please don't tell me you are running a reciever or a 5 channel Rotel amp with 4 802Ds.

[KyaDawn]

Thanks everyone for your great replies. I agree with some of the suggestions here and will get the 802D's. I can get the full 5.1 set-up now if I wanted to, but since I'm moving into a new house and completely remodeling and getting new everything, I'm going to take my time with the system. Therefore, I will start with having just the 802D's for the front speakers, and get the center speaker later as an upgrade. I already have a 12" powered sub from my current system so I will use that in the meantime before I decide on getting the ASW825 or possibly a Velo or Revel later.

This was actually an easy choice for me since the 803S (even though it's a good speaker) doesn't even come close to the 802D, not to mention the 804S which isn't even the same ballpark. If I settled with the 803S, I would be stuck with them, but getting the 802D's, I get the speakers I want and can just "upgrade" later by adding the other speakers.

One thing I noticed though is several of you mentioned the 803S or 804S as rears, which I think they would be fine for. However, my room is a bit narrow and we've already decided on getting a L-shaped sofa that will take most of the back wall. Therefore, I am going with the wall mounted speakers for the surround. What are your thoughts on the SCMS or DS8S as surrounds? Keep in mind I'm more into multi-channel for watching movies, and prefer listening to music in stereo.

[Mark-n-b]

Are you not into multichannel music at all? If you are then I WOULD go for 4×802Ds now, then get a centre channel later. If you think that this lacks bass(!) then you can always use your existing sub and get an ASW later. If you run the 802Ds properly, there is masses of bass.

This is the exact approach I am using (for m/c music 33%, stereo music 33% and films 34%). I intend to build a dedicated room when we have the extension built in a couple of years time. My system is going to be 4×802D and probably a couple of HTM2D (one at the rear centre). If I feel that this lacks bass, I will add at leat 1 ASW855.

Mark

[scanido]

This was actually an easy choice for me since the 803S (even though it's a good speaker) doesn't even come close to the 802D, not to mention the 804S which isn't even the same ballpark.

Obviously! :T

Sounds to me like you made up your mind for the fronts from the beginning and I'm not sure on your logic for comparing the 803S to the 802D, let alone the 804S? They are obviously priced accordingly from one another and should perform that way. It's like comparing a BMW M5 to a 335i. Both great cars, but both perform on a totally different level!

Good decision on funneling most of your budget on the 802D for now, but I would squeeze the HTM2D in lieu of the rear speakers. You can get cheap speakers for now (<$200) to fill the rears in the mean time.

[ninja12]

Congratulations on your decision. However, the comparison between 802D and 803S was really an unfair comparison. If you wanted to compare against the 803, then I think that you should have at least compared against the 803D at least you would have kept it into the diamond series family. Anyway, once again congratulations on your speaker selection and your new home. I'm sure you will definitely enjoy the 802Ds and your new home. :T

[KyaDawn]

Thanks everyone. Yes, it wasn't a fair comparison, but the reason for it was I initially decided on the 803S because I wanted to get the 5.1 right away and in and of itself the 803S sounds great. But hearing the 802D, I just became very uncomfortable because even the 803S is not inexpensive, and if I was going to spend that kind of money, I might as well go all the way and the 802D was so much better, but just a lot more.

What was good about your comments is that you let me know how important the center channel and subwoofer is, even when using the 802D's. Now I will make sure I have space for them when I set up the room, especially the center speaker as I will have the flatscreen mounted professionally and all wires hidden, etc. If I didn't make space now for adding the HTM2D down the road, it would be a big pain and cost later.

Thanks again for all of your comments and help, it really cleared things up for me.