805S speakers a waste for rears?

[scanido]

Hello all,

I've been contending over this decision to purchase a set of rear speakers for quite some time now to accompany my 803S/HTM3S front stage. I auditioned a set of 805S and they sounded amazing - very nice midrange, a detailed tweeter, seemless soundstage etc. etc, but when i mentioned to the sales rep that i would be using these as rear channels in a HT setup, he balked at the idea and said it would be a "waste" given the price of these speakers and that they are meant to be more for mains. He then directed me at 705's and even 600 series that would give 90% of the performance at a fraction of the price.

Now from a cosmetic front I would agree that there is nothing else to consider when matching with the other 800 series, but in terms of a rear channel only purpose, is it really justified, especially for HT only use? I would only be using them for HT and occasionally for 5CH music. I don't and will not be using them for SACD or DVD concerts.

805S owners that use them for rears, would you still have made the same decision if you were to do it again? Given that the new 600 series4 is about to be launched, I would assume they would match more closely with the current 800 series. Any thoughts?

Thanks for you input...

[Briz vegas]

If you have the money and are fanatical about the sound then 803s would be best, then 804s. 805 and 705 to my ears shared a common different sound to their FST brothers - therefore choosing between them as a rear speaker is more a matter of aesthetics and wallet depth as they are not the perfect surrounds anyway.

I have 804s at front, 705 retired from front now do rear duties with matching rosenut finish - it all sounds a treat for movies - rears do not drawn attention to themselves, as I have them aimed at 45% to listening position - 705 tweeter is more prominent than 800series S tweeter - off axis angle sorts that just fine.

I would not assume anything about the 600s and no one has heard them yet from what I have read. B&W would also be aiming them below the 700 series. Finally - no wood veneer finish. Not for me.

[dmccombs]

Scanido,

I have 803s and HTM3s up front like you do. I did demo a set of 805s for the rears and thought the did ok for movies as they had similar timber to the 803s, but in that setup I moved my sub to the rear of the room to supplement the 805s.

5.1 music didn't sound as seamless as I would have like though, so I am running 804s in the back. This is a little bit of a problem though as I have a high couch. I am having to get the 804s ~16" off the ground to hear the sound over the couch. Still it is an improvement over the 805s.

I had considered getting (2) HTM3s for the rears. Their horizontal layout may be better for my high couch, but I think the 804s are a little more open. Trade-offs, trade-offs, trade-offs.

Of course, Briz nailed it, if you want the best sound then a set of 803s in the back will be most seamless. In fact, I pop into my local dealer once a weeke to see if he has any used 803s that I can trade up to. ;-)

Regards,
Darrell

[hifiguymi]

As the salesperson you talked to stated, the 705's will work well as a rear channel. They also stated it would be 90% of the performance. If you would be happy with a system that's at 90%, then get the 705's. Since you started the thread it sounds to me like you want better than 90%. Sticking with the 800 Series will give you the best timbre match and the best performance. Most people don't realize how much information is in the rear channels because they don't invest in good speakers or they don't match the fronts. When you hear a well balanced and matched speaker system, you'll notice it right away. Go for the 805S's, if the budget allows, and you'll be glad you did.

Eric

[Gremal]

I agree with Eric. The 805S matches your front and center speakers. There is no reason to have a lower end surround or a higher end floorstander back there as the 805S is plenty articulate using the same materials as the others you have for a seamless surround field. If you were playing a lot of multichannel SACDs, one could argue for going with the bigger brother as dmccombs advocates.

[dknightd]

I don't think it would be a waste. They'll match better both visually and sonically.

[scanido]

As the salesperson you talked to stated, the 705's will work well as a rear channel. They also stated it would be 90% of the performance. If you would be happy with a system that's at 90%, then get the 705's. Since you started the thread it sounds to me like you want better than 90%. Sticking with the 800 Series will give you the best timbre match and the best performance. Most people don't realize how much information is in the rear channels because they don't invest in good speakers or they don't match the fronts. When you hear a well balanced and matched speaker system, you'll notice it right away. Go for the 805S's, if the budget allows, and you'll be glad you did.

Eric

I have to agree with you. I was surprised to find how much difference there is when you add rear channels. I guess i'm intentionally trying to get a justification for such an expensive speaker.

[scanido]

Thanks again folks for providing excellent recommendations. Most likely i will get the 805S then or the SCMS. I just need to save up that extra bit longer. Seeing how the current 600 series is being discontinued I think i'll opt for a temp set of rears for now, most likely DM600's to hold me off until then.

[GregLett]

I have to agree with you. I was surprised to find how much difference there is when you add rear channels. I guess i'm intentionally trying to get a justification for such an expensive speaker.

Always let your ears do the final justification :T

[dmccombs]

Scanido,

I saw some 805s on Audiogon for $1700. Buying used helps the wallet a little bit. :lol:

Regards,
Darrell

[ninja12]

Thanks again folks for providing excellent recommendations. Most likely i will get the 805S then or the SCMS. I just need to save up that extra bit longer. Seeing how the current 600 series is being discontinued I think i'll opt for a temp set of rears for now, most likely DM600's to hold me off until then.

I have the same front set-up as you (803S mains and HTM3S center). For my rears, I went with the SCMS, and I have them wall mounted. They really match very well with the 803S. However, I did get them for half price.

[RebelMan]

Don't skimp on surrounds quality or placement. Next to the center channel they are the most neglected part of a home cinema system yet the most important part in recreating the movie going experience. There is no greater three-dimensional realism and feeling one gets than from a soundtrack that makes good use of the surround channels. It takes great speakers to make great sound no matter what position they play.

Surprisingly my pair of SCMS (essentially a wall mountable version of the 805S) sounds better with my 800D than they did with my 803S. There is a greater sense of envelopment and immersion now than what I experienced before. Reverberation and transient information sent to the surrounds blends more seamlessly with the energy propagating from the front stage.

Granted the 800D are making a larger contribution to the whole cinema reproduction than my 803S did but not in the way that you would intuitively think. Strangely it's as if the warmer and smoother output of the 800D mates better with the "engineered signal" sent to the surrounds. I would have intuitively expected a increase in disparate tonality not a reduction from the driver mismatches. This observation suggests timbre matching surrounds shouldn’t be neglected if optimum performance is paramount.

The 805S wouldn't be wasted as surrounds but I think there are better alternatives. I believe the SCMS would serve you better if you have the means to install them, they are considerably less expensive (when you factor in stands) and look great too.

[PhotoRobot]

When I purchased my B&W 804N and HTM4 it was beyond my budget and while I mostly wanted a cinema system, I wanted to be sure that the 2 channel was knockout as well. So I made the sacrifice knowing that I would have to wait for the rear channels.

During the interim waiting period of 2.5 years, I thought that I might pick up a pair of 603's (year 1). To which my dealer told me to hold out to purchase SCMS or a pair of N805's to achieve a blended tonality and timbre. I thought the extreme pricing for rears wasn't justified. I went back and suggested 705's would do the job, and he sent me away (year 1.5). So finally I made the plunge and spent the dough on the 805's with stands (year 2.5). If I were in a more permanent home I would have bought the SCMS.

As RebelMan says there is a three dimensional realism. The blending is totally seamless and is a very ethereal experience. What I noticed is that the rear channels are not effects channels like so many home cinema systems i've experienced, but a component that blends perfectly with the sounds stage, not stealing only contributing to this enhanced experience. You can only ID the source of the sound when it's explicitly mixed in the track. Other than that immersion.

SACD's and DVD'A's produce incredible results. Too bad there is so little available on these formats. While my initial objective was weighted toward home cinema, i've really re-vitalized my interest in music over the last couple of years. How could you not?

Without a doubt, it is worth the wait and money.

[scanido]

Wow, thanks everyone for the insightful recommendations!

I would say i took the same approach as to invest mainly in the front three speakers and now I'm left with not much in the budget for the rears, probably for the next year.

One aspect i did not mention was that i am moving into my new house later in the year and am unsure as to the possible rear speaker arrangements for the room. This was actually the driving decision for me holding off for either the 805S or SMCS now. Depending on the room setup, I will choose the more appropriate model when the time comes, but I will definitely consider everyone's comments and am pretty much sold on a 800 series rear speaker for my final configuration!

Having said that, I have opted to take advantage of getting a DM600 S3 for temporary rear duties. I hooked them up last night and it is SO much better than the JBL's i had on to sample. B&W did something special with these little bookshelves! I have to agree that the 3D realism is more pronounced than just having the front channels and even though I can decipher the slight tonality imbalance from the rears, the more i can look forward to that seamless front-rear soundstage of either an 805S or SCMS later on. For now, the DM600's work well...

Cheers :^x
Steve

[Mark_C.]

Well, I'll be the lone voice in the wilderness and agree with your dealer.

I've had 601S2s doing surround duty in my HT setup for 8 years. My front stage is N805/HTM2. I've swapped out the 601s temporarily for CDMNT1s and N805s during that time, but always came back to the 601s because surround speakers are inherently underused for cinema. Let's face it folks: the amount of surround information on the typical DVD movie is minuscule compared to the front. If you're not heavy into multi-channel music, there's no reason (other than aesthetics) to go with 805 rears. The SCMs are nice, but again the price for a very limited role in HT makes it a questionable purchase unless price doesn't matter. There's no need to timbre match surround speakers in an exclusive HT setup, so what's the point?
Again, this opinion is based on OP's statement that the 805s would be for surround only.

[Briz vegas]

I still think the 705 is worthwhile but firstly I already had them, and secondly they replaced speakers a fifth of their retail price so the openess of the sound and the improvement was big. For me this was the logical solution, for others it will be different.

[dknightd]

FWIW those DM600 S3 will make dandy computer speakers when you upgrade your rears.

[scanido]

FWIW those DM600 S3 will make dandy computer speakers when you upgrade your rears.

You read my mind, that's exactly what i plan to do with them after the fact! They were a great buy considering the new price point of the 686 bookshelf will be @ $450!