IMO’s needed on HT set up for amp & processor

[hd99yr]

Hi everyone! I need opinions on a HT setup for the trade off between speakers and equipment.

This is what I’m building with speakers.

Front - 802D
Center - Htm2D
Surround sides - 804S
Surround rears - 804
Sub - DD-15

The problem I’m struggling with is how much amp and processor and what would be the trade off between 802 & 802D’s and htm2D & htm1 or htm3 versus spending more money on equipment.

I have the 804S, 804 and DD-15 already but wonder what the trade off would be to save money on the rest of the speakers and spend it on equipment?

With my budget if I go the 802D htm2D route I will have about $3,500 to spend on amperage so it looks like the rotel RMB-1095 and RB-1080 using my denon AVR-2807.

If I go with Nautilus802 and a htm1 I would have about $7,500 to spend on an amp and processor.

To further complicate the situation I’m disabled and trips to the stereo store cost about $75 a crack so I depend on reviews and forums to educate myself. If I get a new processor it has to have video up converting and some form of speaker equalization. My denon has Audyssey MultEQ Auto EQ Setup System and it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. Surround sound is so uniform and balanced I refuse to be without it and with a 60 inch hdtv video upscaling is a must. All equipment and speakers purchased will be used from now on so if any of you are upgrading feel free to contact me if you have something I might need.

So let’s have it guys! Speaker quality or equipment for an over all best bang for my buck.

Thanks in advance for your opinions!

[jack d]

You asked for opinions so.... I'm no expert but in my experience, you should get the best speakers you can. The electronic equipment is important but not as important as the speakers. So I'd go with the 802Ds and HTM1D or 2D (BTW i've got 802Ds and HTM1D).When you save up some more money, then upgrade the electronics.

The 802Ds will sing with a lot of good amplification--at least 400-500 watts. I use Mac 501 monoblocs with mine (500 wpc). Before that I had an Anthem (5x225) and it was ok but I didn't realize what I was missing until I auditioned a Mac 402 (400 wpc) for the 802Ds. It was a revelation. It wasn't just the wattage although that is important. It was the quality of the amplification. I finally settled on the 501s for the 802D and the HTM1D since I got a very good deal on them. They were a significant improvement over the MC402 but it was not an "earth shattering" difference.

[ShadowZA]

Welcome to the club, hd99yr. Wishing you many hours of enjoyment here.

I agree with jack in that I consider the speakers to be more important than the electronics. However, what the 802D's (and the 804's) like best is high-end type electronics (at least 250 watts of quality). I would suggest that you do not rush into a decision but rather take your time ... whilst letting some cash build up, if possible.

I built (am still building - when does it ever stop :twisted: ) my system in piecemeal fashion over a period of about 2 years. Speakers first. Then I upgraded my Rotel RMB-1075 amp (which is not shabby at all) to a Krell KAV-3250 (to drive the 2 x 803D's and the HTM2D) and a Krell KAV-2250 (to drive the rear N804's). A few months later I upgraded my processor from Rotel to Krell Showcase. Wow! What a difference. I'm still using my Marantz DV7600 source as a transport only & letting the Showcase do all the D/A conversion. I recently acquired the DD-15, which I see you have. No better sub than this imho .

I would like to suggest that you set some sort of a goal ... say a 3 year goal. Maybe start with amps first and then the processor (as processors are updating themselves more frequently and I'm sure you'd like to be as compatible as possible regarding hdmi & decent upscaling). Some ideas: A new Krell "S" processor has recently been released. This could push the price down of an hdmi upgraded Showcase (which is being replaced). The Krell KAV amps are fantastic imho. They tend to drive difficult loads with ease.

Have I completed upgrading? Hell, no. I'm still trying to decide on a high-end/reference quality source. Problem is ... I'm trying to decide on my favourite disc format. Have not breached that chasm yet. But, hey ... that's what makes this hobby tick :P .

Good luck & let us know what you decide to do.

[bvk_houtx]

I'm never shy about giving my opinion...... you stated your majority of use is for HT. With that, I would go with the another pair of 804S & HTM3S for the front, use the money saved to buy a McIntosh MC207 to power all speakers and if there is anything left over look at purchasing the McIntosh MVP-871 as the video source. The 804S & HTM3S will timbre match your existing speakers. The MC207 will be a noticeable upgrade over the Denon as related to powering your speakers. Just be sure to have the MC207 on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, this will allow it to draw all the current it needs.

[hd99yr]

I have been seriously looking into the mc207 as I could go a fuzz over budget. I am frustrated by the lack of quality 7 channel amps out there with 200 watts or more. I’m concerned that if I go with a stereo amplifier for the 802D’s that is say 400 watts and combine that with a 200 watt 5 channel the sound level won’t be even and balanced with HT.

Also been looking into a Classe CAV-500 with another amplifier for the 802D’s. Should I be concerned about even distribution for ht when the amplifier for the 802D’s is twice as powerful as the amplifier for the rest of the speakers?

I am in love with the Audyssey MultEQ Auto EQ that my receiver has and the experience of everything perfectly balanced sound wise.

[Miroku]

you can calibrate the uneven sound levels in your preamp. Many people set up HTs with bigger amps for bigger front speakers and smaller amps for smaller surround speakers

[hifiguymi]

If you plan on upgrading later on, then, for the short term, something like a Rotel or similar will work great with the speakers you're considering. The 802D's, HTM2D, etc will work great with that level of electronics. However, if you don't have any plans on upgrading then I'd start with better electronics. You'd be amazed how big of a difference there is between a preamp like the one in the Denon AVR-2807 and the Rotel RSP-1068 (or similar). The difference is just as big going to a Classe SSP-300 (or similar) from the Rotel RSP-1068. The same goes with amplifiers. High performance speakers can really show off the differences in the quality of the components in front of them. I have been selling high performance audio/video for 15 years and so many people over buy speakers. You'll get better performance out of a balanced system than one that is speaker heavy.

I have been seriously looking into the mc207 as I could go a fuzz over budget. I am frustrated by the lack of quality 7 channel amps out there with 200 watts or more. I’m concerned that if I go with a stereo amplifier for the 802D’s that is say 400 watts and combine that with a 200 watt 5 channel the sound level won’t be even and balanced with HT.

Also been looking into a Classe CAV-500 with another amplifier for the 802D’s. Should I be concerned about even distribution for ht when the amplifier for the 802D’s is twice as powerful as the amplifier for the rest of the speakers?

I am in love with the Audyssey MultEQ Auto EQ that my receiver has and the experience of everything perfectly balanced sound wise.

When you are talking amplifiers that size, as long as the quality level is the same, or very similar, you'll be fine. You only get 3dB of volume with twice the amplifier power. A 400 watt power amp will only play 3dB louder than a 200 watt amplifier on the same speaker. If you were to get the Classe CAV-500 and say a pair of CA-M350's or CA-M400's you'd be fine with the speaker system you're looking at.

As far as the Audyssey is concerned, it does work very well (I sell Denon so I'm very fimiliar with how it works). As I stated above, it will not make up for a quality difference in preamps however. Remember to try to keep your system in balance and you'll be rewarded for it.

I hope this helps.

Eric

[hd99yr]

Eric,

Thanks, that information really helped me out a lot.

I’m definitely planning on upgrading the denon ASAP. Re-evaluating my need for video switching and upscaling as the SSP-300 is tempting me. Do I really need hdmi switching? It really bothers me that I’m even considering using the denon with the new amps what ever I decide on. My goal is to do one or more areas right the first time so I don’t have to upgrade.

I’ve narrowed it down to mac and Classe and based on your input with the db’s I’m going 400 watts or more for the 802D’s and around 200 for the surrounds.

What and how much difference is there between the older Classe CAV-180 or CA-401 And the current line?

I’ve decided to put off the new front, back storm doors and new front door for the stereo equipment! You can’t appreciate being single until you’ve been married. NO WIFE TO TELL ME I CAN”T!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

Thank you everyone for all the input.

[jack d]

I’ve narrowed it down to mac and Classe and based on your input with the db’s I’m going 400 watts or more for the 802D’s and around 200 for the surrounds.

One suggestion if you try a Mac/802D combo: make sure you listen to it on the 8ohm AND 4ohm taps. When I first auditioned the MC402 I used the 8ohm tap and it sounded ok. When I switched to the 4 ohm tap I experienced the "revelation" that convinced me I had to have Macs. There seems to be some disagreement among Mac owners about this but for me there is no comparision. The 4 ohm tap is the way to go with the 802Ds.

The problem with Mac is what to do with all the speakers in a surround system. As you note, they only have the 207 at 5x200 watts (in your case this is even more of a problem than it was for me because you've got 7 speakers). I tried to think through various options of how to get all Mac amplification for five channels staying with the 402 for the two 802Ds but none of them seemed very good--especially because I wanted exactly the same amplification for the center as for the L/R. In the end I decided to go with 501s for all speakers. I was going to use three 501s up front and the 402 for my two surrounds (which, I'm sure would have been fine) but then my dealer offered me a deal on two more 501s that I could not refuse.

The only thing I would be concerned about in your proposed 402 + 207 is the center channel. If you get the HTM1D it's basically an 802D turned on its side. You will have a signficant difference in amplification between the L/R and C. I'm not sure but I think even the HTM2D will benefit from more hefty amplification.

[hifiguymi]

Re-evaluating my need for video switching and upscaling as the SSP-300 is tempting me. Do I really need hdmi switching? It really bothers me that I’m even considering using the denon with the new amps what ever I decide on. My goal is to do one or more areas right the first time so I don’t have to upgrade.

The SSP-300 would certainly be a better preamp then the Denon receiver. As far as HDMI switching goes, it depends on your system. If you have a display that only has one HDMI input and you need more, which most people do, then yes you need it. There are HDMI switchers and scalers available now and more coming all of the time that will do a great job of that in a seperate chassis. Classe may even have one on the way.

I’ve narrowed it down to mac and Classe and based on your input with the db’s I’m going 400 watts or more for the 802D’s and around 200 for the surrounds.

I haven't sold McIntosh for a long time so I don't have much input on their products but I know Classe pretty well and I think it's great sounding gear. They do a great job at everything; tonal balance, dynamics, wide sound stage, wonderful detail at all ends of the audio spectrum; and work extremly well with B&W speakers.

What and how much difference is there between the older Classe CAV-180 or CA-401 and the current line?

The new Delta line is very good stuff. It's a total redesign of the previous line. It's more flexible in terms of setup and if you have a Classe preamp like the SSP-300 the CANBUS will give you info on what the amps are doing and what the problem is if there is one. They more importantly sound better. They "get out of the way" alot more. They have a better ease about them without sacrificing anything in terms of detail and dynamics. That said, the previous line is still very good sounding.

I’ve decided to put off the new front, back storm doors and new front door for the stereo equipment! You can’t appreciate being single until you’ve been married. NO WIFE TO TELL ME I CAN”T!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

Spoken like a true audiophile!!!

Eric