New 802D's and Htm2d's more efficient

[misterdoggy]

First impressions on the 802d's is that the krell kav 2250 (2x250w) is more than enough. In fact just taking the banana plugs out of the 804S's and plugging in to the 802d's the same amount of output to drive the 804s' at 75decibels drove the 802ds to 78 so I needed to "cut" the current quite a bit. The htm2d is an imporvement over the htm3s as it has a great midrange, more resonance and the detail out of the diamond Tweeter is remarkable.

My wife walked in the room and was a bit shocked at the size of them. (uh humm, They didn't cost too much honey, I got a deal) Immediately my son whose 20 put on The landing scene in Private Ryan and the house trembled with every explosion. I had to duck as the bullets were flying from everywhere with the 804s' taking up surround duty. The ASW825 was pushed down to 50hz which will probably only come in to play in HT sequences that are demanding. All the speakers are set to large as the HTM2D is no kitten. I wonder what the need could be for a Sub when the 802D's rock the house ?

Listening to Ben Harper, Norah Jones and Bob Marley is incredible. The guitar in Ben Harper has such incredible detail, the diamond tweeters are so precise. !!

[jericho]

Very nice stuff Doggy!!! :T

[jim777]

I wonder what the need could be for a Sub when the 802D's rock the house ?

Don't forget that the sub is used for bass management PLUS the LFE channel. So when you listen to a movie and a sound is specificly in the LFE channel, your sub will be playing it. The LFE channel was "invented" to have more headroom (it can go about 12dB louder than the other channels, so that explosion can be pretty loud.. ).

And yeah, pretty nice setup :T

[akhter]

Don't forget that the sub is used for bass management PLUS the LFE channel. So when you listen to a movie and a sound is specificly in the LFE channel, your sub will be playing it. The LFE channel was "invented" to have more headroom (it can go about 12dB louder than the other channels, so that explosion can be pretty loud.. ).

And yeah, pretty nice setup :T

True, but with any good processor, if the Subwoofer is set to none, the LFE sounds should be routed to the speakers set to LARGE, and assuming the speakers can handle it. Anyways, a 600-1000w sub can't be matched by 250 amp (no disrespect to krell )

[misterdoggy]

So in your opinions what would you set the LFE to 40 or 50 hz or higher lower ?

[jim777]

True, but with any good processor, if the Subwoofer is set to none, the LFE sounds should be routed to the speakers set to LARGE, and assuming the speakers can handle it.

That's also true, but it's a bit of a compromise for HT for the reason I said earlier; more headroom. Anyway the guy already has his sub

[RobP]

Misterdoggy, that is a great setup you have there, love the room decor as well. Looks great! But I bet it sounds better than it looks.

[misterdoggy]

True, but with any good processor, if the Subwoofer is set to none, the LFE sounds should be routed to the speakers set to LARGE, and assuming the speakers can handle it. Anyways, a 600-1000w sub can't be matched by 250 amp (no disrespect to krell )

I have to processor set to

Subwoofer : Yes
Filter : No ("In" on the ASW825)
Frequency : 40 hz
Speaker Size : All Large

It was advised to me by B&W technical that the Sub would pick up the lower area down to 20hz, much better than ANY floor stander, so it really should kick in on special effects. B&W recommended the ASW 855, but there is so much "BOOM" already, I think I'm OK. :T

[Stevebez]

The cross over should be such that it blends with yre 802's ... I am not sure of the LFE output range but think its 10hz (!!!) - 100Hz. Thats only for LFE - if you use sub for music the processor should shut it off if speakers are set to large. So I would say 60 as a minimum - Velodyne recommend 80hz for their subs.

Do you use the HTM2D for music as well ? ... I am considering getting one of these ... need to convince the wife further though... (p.s. will be use to match my 803D's.)

Rgds Steve

[xk8boy]

Love the setup misterdoggy. What amazed me is that, although 802D are physically hugh, but when they are bumping out music they simply disappear.

Out of interest, do you think your current amp (250W) is enough for the 802s or are you already considering an upgrade

[misterdoggy]

The cross over should be such that it blends with yre 802's ... I am not sure of the LFE output range but think its 10hz (!!!) - 100Hz. Thats only for LFE - if you use sub for music the processor should shut it off if speakers are set to large. So I would say 60 as a minimum - Velodyne recommend 80hz for their subs.

Do you use the HTM2D for music as well ? ... I am considering getting one of these ... need to convince the wife further though... (p.s. will be use to match my 803D's.)

Rgds Steve

Steve
I just use the htm2d for HT and Satellite. I was thinking about using it for music but I'm not sure what mode that would be with my Halo C1. Are you saying in a 3.1 configuration or in a Sacd or 5.1 configuration. When used in the DPLII from a 2 channel source the sound fills up the room more and if you are walking around the house, BUT if you are in the room the definition is subtler, more delicate, and precise with just the 2 802D's. I've yet to crank up a SACD to see how the htm2d would fare. The HTM2D is definitely a subtle step up from the HTM3S.

Love the setup misterdoggy. What amazed me is that, although 802D are physically hugh, but when they are bumping out music they simply disappear.

Out of interest, do you think your current amp (250W) is enough for the 802s or are you already considering an upgrade

I definitely am satisfied with the Krell 250 watts. Its absolutely amazing. I'm nowhere near pushing the resources of the amplifier. I feel that the 802D's are very efficient and as I said, with the same output level that was driving the 804S' at 75 dbs, was pushing the 802D's to 78-79dbs. This probably has to do with a drop in the Ohms or something.

[Andorian]

Hi,

There is no limit,
My dealer (just briefly) put 2x m400, and bi-amped m400 (thus 1600w!) and there was an audible improvement, amazing,
dont try this at home :lol: !!
the difference was on bigger (logically on ) the 800, but still...
Andor.

[nba]

How noticable was the difference between the showcase you had and the 2250? Was the extra power noticable?
I have sent you a PM on this issue as well.

Regards
Niko

[misterdoggy]

Hi,

There is no limit,
My dealer (just briefly) put 2x m400, and bi-amped m400 (thus 1600w!) and there was an audible improvement, amazing,
dont try this at home :lol: !!
the difference was on bigger (logically on ) the 800, but still...
Andor.

Andorian

That's similar to what the Beatles use in their ABBEY road Studio. Well not exactly as they are using N801's but they are bi-amped with M400's.

If I step up to the plate one more time to "7.1", I will power with a FPBcx Krell 400 watt x 2 Amp to power the 802D's, but for the moment I am happy as a Clam.

[misterdoggy]

How noticable was the difference between the showcase you had and the 2250? Was the extra power noticable?
I have sent you a PM on this issue as well.

Regards
Niko

Niko I sent you a PM in answer.

I can't say the difference between the KAV and the Showcase was "tremendous" as they both had beautiful sound. I did upgrade more to keep the level of quality "similar" for all the elements concerned. The Kav2250 and 3250 were up to the task of driving the 802D's and htm2d and 804S'. Trying to keep everything at "par" with each other is now the task at hand. The "chain" must be strong all the way including Sources, cables + mains, to the Speaker until they seem like there not there.

[xk8boy]

misterdoggy, i noticed in your pics that the 802Ds are on its coasters, you should really be puttin on spikes.

[misterdoggy]

misterdoggy, i noticed in your pics that the 802Ds are on its coasters, you should really be puttin on spikes.

Yeaaaaah, they weren't delivered with spikes nor rubber feet (not standard in Europe) and I'm thinking about keeping thm on coasters as they need to be shuffled every so often (access to the aquarium). I'm thinking about something underneath the coasters to protect the wood floors. Is there anything wrong with leaving them on coasters ?

[xk8boy]

The 802Ds dont come delivered with spikes. The have coasters on so once you've unpacked them, they can be pushed to place. You should also have recieved to boxes containing the spiking kit. They arent difficult to install, just get a friend to help you out - as you already know- they arent light. I had the coasters on for a couple weeks until i found the "right" position for them. But once on spikes, i found they had even better imaging and the bass become more tight.

There's nothing wrong with coasters, just i feel that they were designed for convient instead function. I have always had speakers on spikes, simple for stability reason.

Also, just noticed that you still have the grill on, on the mid drivers. Defo remove those and installed the alumimum plugs that came with them.

[misterdoggy]

The 802Ds dont come delivered with spikes. The have coasters on so once you've unpacked them, they can be pushed to place. You should also have recieved to boxes containing the spiking kit. They arent difficult to install, just get a friend to help you out - as you already know- they arent light. I had the coasters on for a couple weeks until i found the "right" position for them. But once on spikes, i found they had even better imaging and the bass become more tight.

There's nothing wrong with coasters, just i feel that they were designed for convient instead function. I have always had speakers on spikes, simple for stability reason.

Also, just noticed that you still have the grill on, on the mid drivers. Defo remove those and installed the alumimum plugs that came with them.

XK8boy
You are right and I was ahead of you on the speaker grills. I've enclosed a foto of the Grills off version.
I am going to check with my friend at B&W about the coasts vs rubber feet. I couldn't put spikes because we have hardwood floors unless the spikes had something to put them on. I have the spikes from the 804S' but don't know if they are the same.
Personally I prefer the coasters because they can be moved slightly easily if need be.

[xk8boy]

The spike feets are reversible, one for carpet the other for wood floors.

[misterdoggy]

They also supply rubber feet which are even more practical. When you said you changed the feet and there was a difference, I'm wondering whether the break in period had something to do with the sound as well.

[xk8boy]

I gave the 802Ds a good 2 weeks to break in before I installed the spikes. To me, I didnt notice the break-in changes, may be cause it was subtle and over a period of time. Added to the fact, I wasnt really listening for them. I simply put on a range of CDs and let them play. Mind you, right out of the box, they already sounded just fine. However, I did do a pre-post spiking listening, and that to me made quite a difference.

[misterdoggy]

Interesting. I just hung up the phone with B&W tech and the person I had said that the the difference would have to be miniscule. He said the reason for the spikes on smaller speakers was to limit movement, but that the weight alone of these babies would probably limit movement to immeasurable. However, You made the test and heard the difference and I've learned to listen to everyone's opinions and there is probably a reason. Maybe the slightest change of position either directional or height as it seems these speakers in particular are sensitive to even the slightest of movements.

He said one could leave the rollers on forever, if one wants, as they won't wear out. I like the aspect because where they are can change time to time, as in my house they are floating a bit one might say. Next house maybe the position will be 100% permanent and the I would go with the spikes.

As is I am as happy as a Clam. :dothewave:

[Andorian]

Misterdoggy,

How many meters they are apart, its a bit difficult to estimate using the wideangle view. They are not much toeed in, right??

must be a busy place, nowadays,

Any complaints from surrounding people,

Andor

[misterdoggy]

Misterdoggy,

How many meters they are apart, its a bit difficult to estimate using the wideangle view. They are not much toeed in, right??

must be a busy place, nowadays,

Any complaints from surrounding people,

Andor

Andor,

They are approx 4 meters apart and slight toed in. Its slightly off center from the opposiing side where the couch is and therefor the reason form the angle on the whole unit.

I'm working on the little lady to try another setup in the living room, but I'm waiting for the dust to settle from the introduction of the Mammouth Speakers that have just landed from outer space. My son thinks Extra Terrestrials brought them.

My neighbors make a lot of noise and I don't complain about them and they don't complain about me. ;x(

[jlee]

True, but with any good processor, if the Subwoofer is set to none, the LFE sounds should be routed to the speakers set to LARGE, and assuming the speakers can handle it. Anyways, a 600-1000w sub can't be matched by 250 amp (no disrespect to krell )

Not necessarily... not sure of other brands, but with the current Rotel processors, it ONLY goes to the fronts... and not the center or rears, EVEN if they are set to large.