XT Series Setup Questions

[DarkZ]

Hi Guys,

Another newbie just arrived, Been reading this forum for a while now, and finally I decided to buy the XT series, everything should be arriving in about a week, so I just want to have some questions cleared up before I start plugging things in , and here is my setup:

Front LR: XT4

Front Center: LG RU-44SZ51D - Projection TV

Sub: PT1

Rear LR: XT2

Receiver: Yamaha RXV2700

Any comments on this setup? I was more focused on the HT and Video Games, maybe some R&B music too . I am very new to the speaker world(been stuffing infos into my head for the past week :blink: ), and I just hope this setup would get the job done, as for the center speaker issue, I thought the TV could handle the sound and I really do not have too much space left for a matching XTC, but it would be nice to have it though :cry: .

Here is a question I raised, I do see a center speaker input on the back of my TV, as for the RXV2700, there is also a pre-out jack for the center speaker, which kind of audio cables should I use? I do not really want to go with those cheap RCA cables, any suggestions? as for the speakers and Subs, do you guys think the monster THX ultra 1000 cables would do the job? or what could be a good speaker cables for my setup?

Thank you all for reading, and looking forward on your suggestions.

[Ryx]

Hi DarkZ, welcome to the forum!

If I were in your situation I would not use the TV as your center speaker. I would just turn off the center channel in your receiver's menu which will make the receiver distribute the center information into the XT4s giving you a nice phantom center.

in my opinion this will give you much better sound as a whole then trying to use your tv as a center.

obviously a matching center would be your best bet, but I am willing to bet that you would be happy without one for now. (at least a lot happier than if you were to use your tv as your center)

[akhter]

I agree with the poster above that you are better off turning off the center in you receiver setup and not connecting it at all. For TV, gaming and HT, 60% of the sound comes from the center channel, so with all you fancy speakers hooked up, most of the sound will come from the cr4ppy tv speakers. I had a similar setup, and the TV speakers always ruined the imaging of my setup.

[hifiguymi]

I agree with akhter and Ryx. You will be very unhappy with the TV as a center with XT4's. The "phantom mode" will net you the best results if you cannot make the XTC work.

Eric

[WI Rotel]

By all means try to get the XTC. ITs perfectly matched to the other speakers and will give you by far a better expirience, specifically for HT. However, I'm a little worried about your amplification (lack thereof). You will have to set all your speakers to small (in the receivers setup) including the XT4's since a full set of XT's is a huge current challenge. Even the XT2's can easily dip into 4 Ohms (the XT4's can dip below 3 Ohms), that, in addition to their low sensitivity, will easily tax any receiver at higher volume levels. Once you get everything set up give a good loud level test. If you run into receiver overheating, you might also consider a separate stereo power amp for the XT 4's of the same nominal power rating as the receiver. Enjoy.

[Ryx]

you might also consider a separate stereo power amp for the XT 4's of the same nominal power rating as the receiver. Enjoy.

a sterio power amp could be a good idea for a future upgrade. the amp does not need to have the same nominal power rating as the receiver though, it just needs to have matching gain. if the gain on the power amp is the same as the receiver then you would be all set. even if the power amp has a power rating twice that off the receiver, the gain is the thing you need to match to keep the volume consistent.

[WI Rotel]

a sterio power amp could be a good idea for a future upgrade. the amp does not need to have the same nominal power rating as the receiver though, it just needs to have matching gain. if the gain on the power amp is the same as the receiver then you would be all set. even if the power amp has a power rating twice that off the receiver, the gain is the thing you need to match to keep the volume consistent.

Very true.

[DarkZ]

Thanks for the info guys! I didnt know 60% of the sound was coming out of the center speaker.... damn thats alot of percentage! now i do believe I need a matching speaker! I think i will go back to the store today and maybe ask for a deal again .

As for the amps, I dont know too much about them, but I did read the specification on the RXV-2700, it was listed below:

Min. RMS Output Power Front Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Centre Channel 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Surround Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Rear Surround Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)

and if I understand some of your msg clearly, these watts and ohms are not enough for the speakers from my receiver? I thought 140W was alot for the speaker since XT4 was rated 150W, and 100W for XT2, please educate me if possible

And if I do need an amp, could someone suggeste me some good brand? hopefully in black if possible.

Thank you all for such help!

[akhter]

While on paper the Yamaha specs look impressive, what they don't tell you is that that power rating is not true with all 5 channels being driven simultaneously. You should return the yamaha and invest a little more in a receiver from Rotel like the 1057 or even better, an Arcam (avr280 or 350)--you won't regret it.

[hifiguymi]

akhter is right. Most receivers like the ones made Yamaha, Denon, etc do not rate the amps with more than two channels going at a time. Companies like Rotel and Arcam rate thier amps with all channels driven at the same time. Since you'll have more than two channels going most of the time it gives you a better idea of what your getting for your money.

Eric

[nicky]

DarkZ,

Your Yamaha RXV 2700 will be more than adequate for your system from my experience.

I have the 703s and the older Yamaha RXV 2600 model and it sounds great for both music and movies.

I have auditioned the Rotels and others, which are of course great and more powerful, but if you don't have the money to upgrade don't worry....my Yamaha RXV 2600 is by no means a slouch and will more than do until I have money to upgrade in the far future......instead buy with whatever money you have on the matching center which is very important if you plan on watching lot of movies or multichannel music.


My system:

703
HTM7
DS7
ASW750
Yahama RXV2600

[DarkZ]

thanks for the input guys, I think I will stick with my Yamaha for now, since im a noob , I figured i need to start somewhere not too high. I just went to the store today, and finally I handed my credit card to them .

As for the Sub, its outputs is at 500Watt, Do I need any Amp to power that thing up? since yamaha only gives 140W per channel :cry:

Also my next expense would the speaker cables, the guy was showing my some cables that are quite expensive, could you guys suggest me some good cables? I do believe they play a good part of the quality too

ps: damn I love this forum, it just seems so ALIVE!!!

[nicky]

Be skeptical of "snake oil" or "exotic" cables that cost an arm and a leg and make bogus claims of performance. It shouldn't cost more than your equipment. Just buy good cables with smaller gauge (thicker)

I personally like bluejeanscable.com although there are others.

You can buy whatever length, customize, etc and they offer some really solid cables....with very good prices.

[hifiguymi]

Also my next expense would the speaker cables, the guy was showing my some cables that are quite expensive, could you guys suggest me some good cables? I do believe they play a good part of the quality too

ps: damn I love this forum, it just seems so ALIVE!!!

I am a huge believer in cables. That being said, it really comes down to personal taste and comfort level. Will your dealer let you borrow a couple pair of speaker cables for you to try out? That is the only way you'll know if you will like what they do. I've heard cables that change the sound of a system but not make it better. It all comes down to personal preference.

I usually recomend to my customers to allot 5 to 10% of the system to cables. For a pair of XT4's at $2500.00 that would be $125.00 - $250.00. Just try it for yourself and see.

Eric

[DarkZ]

great idea Eric! and nice ratio =). I should try that.

[DarkZ]

anyone have a good suggestion on my subwoofer setup? shoud I just run it through my receiver or should i get a bigger amp to power that 500W out? =)

[GregLett]

Thanks for the info guys! I didnt know 60% of the sound was coming out of the center speaker.... damn thats alot of percentage! now i do believe I need a matching speaker! I think i will go back to the store today and maybe ask for a deal again .

As for the amps, I dont know too much about them, but I did read the specification on the RXV-2700, it was listed below:

Min. RMS Output Power Front Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Centre Channel 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Surround Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Rear Surround Channels 140 W + 140 W (0.04% THD)

and if I understand some of your msg clearly, these watts and ohms are not enough for the speakers from my receiver? I thought 140W was alot for the speaker since XT4 was rated 150W, and 100W for XT2, please educate me if possible

And if I do need an amp, could someone suggeste me some good brand? hopefully in black if possible.

Thank you all for such help!

If you hear the XT's with a 200w classe amp, you won't look back.

[DarkZ]

ok guys, as for the speaker cables, I found some Monster MCX-1s speaker cables, the price seems good, and its the M series of Monster cables, anyone have good experiences wth these cables?

here is a link of the cable Link

[hifiguymi]

ok guys, as for the speaker cables, I found some Monster MCX-1s speaker cables, the price seems good, and its the M series of Monster cables, anyone have good experiences wth these cables?

here is a link of the cable Link

The M Series cables are good. They can tend to soften the sound and shrink the soundstage a little with Rotel electronics so listen first if you can.

Eric

[Ryx]

anyone have a good suggestion on my subwoofer setup? shoud I just run it through my receiver or should i get a bigger amp to power that 500W out? =)

If I am correct in assuming that you meant the PV1 and not PT1 like you had posted, then there is no need to upgrade your receiver to power the 500w sub because the subwoofer has its own 500w amp already built in! all your receiver does is send the signal to the sub's amp and then it will amplify the signal to power the woofer. (this is why the sub needs to be plugged into a power outlet)

so if i am correct you have no worries about power for your sub 8)

[DarkZ]

thank you for the lecture man! Learning more things since i got on here now :T

[DarkZ]

btw Ryx,

Could you tell me what kinda gains were you talking about between receivers and power amps? I was looking at the RB-1092, 2x500w, would that be too much? I like the slimmer design on that amp, but Im not sure if the gains you were talking about would match my receiver... any ideas? thank you!

[bigburner]

Hi DarkZ,

The issue that you face with owning XT4 speakers is that they are comparatively inefficient. Their sensitivity rating is 86dB, which means that you need a comparatively high powered amp to produce unclipped peaks that are loud enough for many hi-fi enthusiasts (including me!). However, if you only ever listen at moderate volume then this won't be a problem. Below I have attached an article from Musical Fidelity that may help to explain all of this.

I don't know the Yamaha RXV2700 but from other members' comments on it and my comments on the XT4 it is worth doing some further research on whether it will be suitable for the job. The Rotel RMB-1077 (7 channel) amp might be worth looking at. Its watt rating isn't that high but it is earning a good reputation for handling difficult speakers (and straightforward ones too). You will find plenty of information about it in the Rotel section of this forum. Here is a review that may be of interest: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...l_rmb_1077.htm. The Rotel RB-1092 that you mentioned would be more than powerful enough to control your XT4 speakers. It is powerful enough to control just about any speaker on the planet!

You asked about interconnects. I do not believe that expensive interconnects make the slightest difference to the sound of a hi-fi system, but many members here will disagree with me. The key factors with interconnects are quality firm-fitting plugs plus good shielding and insulation, which can be obtained at a reasonable price. Just avoid cheap and nasty interconnects. I suggest that you look at CAT Cables who are the sponsors of this forum. You'll find a link at the bottom of the page.

Nigel.

[scanido]

DarKZ - In my opinion, the RB-1092 would be overkill. The more suitable amp would be the RB-1077.

Bigburner - Great article! That really brings into light what is really required in a HiFi system, in terms of amplifier power. What should one aim for 105Db or 110Db peaks? How loud is a typical concert for reference?

[WI Rotel]

DarKZ - In my opinion, the RB-1092 would be overkill. The more suitable amp would be the RB-1077.

Bigburner - Great article! That really brings into light what is really required in a HiFi system, in terms of amplifier power. What should one aim for 105Db or 110Db peaks? How loud is a typical concert for reference?

You would be surprised, I run my XT's with a 1095. I have found it to be an incredible match. Remember, its not the RMS watts that you are looking at its the current capacity (since the XTs are so inefficient). Although a 1095 at full blast can certainly overdrive the speakers, it definitely has the current reserves to drive the XT's under any condition, with any music, at any level. Some reviewers have stated that the XT's are not very dynamic, but that is only half true. They are laid back at lower listening levels, as the sound levels goes up, so do their dynamic abilities, they simply love to play loud and sound their best at such levels.
The PV1 sounds amazing but even with 500W it is a little power light in a big room (at high listening levels) my solution was to use 2. The PV1 has gotten some tepid reviews from the HT folks for its lack of "presence" in fact they are meant for smaller rooms, but they IMO they are the best "sounding" subs in the market regardless of price or size. Doubling them up solves any issues with sound levels and preserves that clean, unerring, uncolored sound. At 3K 2 PV1 are not a cheap solution, but again, I don't think that any sub in the market regardless of price can measure up to that combo (Plus they look so darned good its almost a sin of indulgence 8) .

I'm kind of the XT booster club around here Here a link to my setup.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=274474&postcount=893

[DarkZ]

omg!!! I think I really came to the right place! Thank you all for the kindness =), I will post some pictures up once I have this setup ready. and so far I think Im going with the 1095 for now=).

[WI Rotel]

omg!!! I think I really came to the right place! Thank you all for the kindness =), I will post some pictures up once I have this setup ready. and so far I think Im going with the 1095 for now=).

:^x ;b> arty:

[bigburner]

omg!!! I think I really came to the right place! Thank you all for the kindness =), I will post some pictures up once I have this setup ready. and so far I think Im going with the 1095 for now=).

The 1095 gets lots of positive reviews so it's unlikely that you would be disappointed. It's basically the 5 channel version of my 2 channel RB-1080 amp. However, if you get the chance to compare the 1095 head-to-head with the 1077 then give it a go. It would be a shame if you decided later that the 1077 was a better match.

As much as I am enjoying my 1080 I am very interested in trying the 1092 with its extra headroom. Things get pretty loud at my place occasionally with artists like Eric Clapton and Derek Trucks playing so I'm intrigued to find out what the extra headroom of the 1092 would provide in terms of distortion free sound.

Good luck!

Nigel.

[bigburner]

That really brings into light what is really required in a HiFi system, in terms of amplifier power. What should one aim for 105Db or 110Db peaks? How loud is a typical concert for reference?

Good question scanido! I don't know the answer but I plan to do some research over the coming week.

Nigel.

[DarkZ]

Hi Guys,

Acutally I just decided to go with the 1077, after reading all the reviews and their techology, i think it would be a good value to keep it, as for my future upgrades on the speakers, i wouldnt doubt that amp cant handle anything bigger. thanks for the input bighurner!

[DarkZ]

another newbie question guys, as for the connections from my preouts to the amps input, i hear they said use interconnect cables, is that means digital cox cable? thank you.

[WI Rotel]

another newbie question guys, as for the connections from my preouts to the amps input, i hear they said use interconnect cables, is that means digital cox cable? thank you.

Regular RCA interconnects. I use copperheads, a very well constructed cable at a very good price.
Let us know how the 1077 works out, although its power is modest, its class D construction should be able to handle the current loads comfortably and without distortion or overheating, something that receivers would not be able to do. What are you going to use as a processor? Are you buying a preamp or using a receiver?

[hifiguymi]

another newbie question guys, as for the connections from my preouts to the amps input, i hear they said use interconnect cables, is that means digital cox cable? thank you.

Coax digital cables would work but not sound as good as a cable that is designed to carry analog audio. The cables have different impedances. A coax digital cable should be 75 ohm and an analog audio cable should be 110 ohm.

[DarkZ]

thanks for the infomation guys, this forum really helps me alot! :T

WI Rotel:
I am using the Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver, although nothing has been hooked up yet, Im planning to use the receiver mainly for video switching and having the 1077 power all my speakers, although I checked on other forums about the 2700 would handle alot of powers, but I think those guys are not high end audio users... so to be on the safe side, and with all the crazy reviews on 1077, I really want to try it out. 100wpc was only the factory rating, I think there are actual tested showed 130wpc, if the 1077 can handle those huge speakers, Im shouldnt be too worried about my XTseries, right? haha, at least in theory I shouldnt, lol

[WI Rotel]

thanks for the infomation guys, this forum really helps me alot! :T

WI Rotel:
I am using the Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver, although nothing has been hooked up yet, Im planning to use the receiver mainly for video switching and having the 1077 power all my speakers, although I checked on other forums about the 2700 would handle alot of powers, but I think those guys are not high end audio users... so to be on the safe side, and with all the crazy reviews on 1077, I really want to try it out. 100wpc was only the factory rating, I think there are actual tested showed 130wpc, if the 1077 can handle those huge speakers, Im shouldnt be too worried about my XTseries, right? haha, at least in theory I shouldnt, lol

You are going around it correctly. My guess is that the yamaha has a preout for every channel, correct? You can of course run the sub directly from the yamaha's LFE output. There is no advantage to running the sub from the amp (this is only necessary for straight non-processed stereo).

[DarkZ]

You are going around it correctly. My guess is that the yamaha has a preout for every channel, correct? You can of course run the sub directly from the yamaha's LFE output. There is no advantage to running the sub from the amp (this is only necessary for straight non-processed stereo).

yes, this receiver has all the preouts, which supports 7.1, im planning to connect the sub straight from the preouts in yamaha (as they suggested), and have the rest 5 speakers humped by the 1077

[DarkZ]

Here is the back panel of the receiver.

Back Panel

[WI Rotel]

Here is the back panel of the receiver.

Back Panel

Looks like you are good to go :T
Can't wait for the pics and the personal review. Don't forget to buy a sound meter to properly calibrate the individual channel sound levels. Sound meters are cheap, a radio shack model did nicely for me.

[DarkZ]

will do man

[bigburner]

What should one aim for 105Db or 110Db peaks? How loud is a typical concert for reference?

Hi scanido,

From the research that I've done an orchestra in a concert hall produces 100 dB – 110 dB of SPL. A loud rock band in a concert hall produces 115 db – 120 dB of SPL. Apparently in many countries including the U.S. 120 dB is the maximum SPL permitted by law at a public performance.

So why does an SPL of well under 100 dB of SPL sound too loud on many home music systems when the 110 dB of SPL that the orchestra produces in a concert hall sound OK? The reason is that the 110 dB SPL that the orchestra produces in the concert hall is undistorted sound and therefore doesn’t sound too loud.

In the average home music system distortion is caused by a lack of dynamic headroom, and it’s this distortion that makes the music sound too loud. This distortion gradually increases as the amplifier approaches its output limits. This is usually the point where we turn the volume down even though after we’ve done this the music doesn’t sound quite loud enough.

The way to remove the distortion and increase the dynamic headroom is to use an amplifier that has more power, possibly much more power. The good news is that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. It’s little amplifiers driven into clipping that burn out speakers.

The bottom line is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers are the only way to approximate real-life (concert) loudness levels and produce the thrilling dynamics that we experience with live music. That's why I'm particularly interested in the Rotel RB-1092 because it looks like a cost effective way of achieving this objective.

Nigel.

[DarkZ]

Hi Guys,

Finally had my speakers came in today , after a few hours setup, I took some pictures just for the appreciation you guys had helped me along the way, here is my current setup, I know its not high end enough, but consider me as a beginner plz

Rotel 1072 CD player
Rotel 1077 Class D Amp
Yamaha RX-V2700 AV Receiver
Monster M-Series Cables
B&W XT Series speakers set

Pictures:

[hifiguymi]

Nice looking room and system. Where is the DVD player? Do you not have one?

Eric

[scanido]

DarkZ, very nice setup you got there! I suggest you add it to the main B&W Pics sticky.

[DarkZ]

Eric: Im waiting for the HD&Blu Ray 2nd gen player coming out, so for now i will use my ps3 play the movie =).

Scanido: thanks man, I will do that.

[Nolan B]

i dont know why you think your system is not hi end. It is to me. How do XTs sound powered by the 1077?