MATRIX 800: B&W's STATE OF THE ART?

[Jorgitox]

I got a chance of getting a pair of Matrix 800's in such a good condition (Series II Edition, made between 1991/1992), but I would like to know what could I improve over my Matrix 801 Series III. I know I could have more dynamics, but apart from that (I really do not need more), what could I expect from them?, Do they sound more than the 801 Series II or Series III? I just have change from front to rears the Series II, because SIII's improvement over the II's was really notorious, especially when performing the piano.

Best regards,
Jorge.

[Josh]

Are you asking about the 800 or the 801?

[Jorgitox]

Hi!

About Matrix 800's (I have seen that you also got a pair of Matrix 801 Series III).

[Fife]

I think the Matrix 800 are probably the best of the Matrix line and the 801s are next. However the Matrix 800 most likely requires a larger room and more power. Probably need to bi-amp as a minimun as each side has two 12", 2 midranges and a tweeter.

You can probably get by with one amp for the mids/tweeters but you will probably need 2 amps for the four 12" drivers.

[Josh]

I also have a pair of the 800 Matrix. Once my Wilsons come in, they will be moved to replace the 801s in my other system. There is absolutely no comparison between the Matrix 800s and the 801s. They are significantly more detailed, dynamic and far more musical than the 801s could ever hope to be. The current 800D speakers are neither a replacement nor an upgrade to them, but rather an alternative with a different type of sound in a much smaller, more room friendly package.
The Matrix 800s are very unique and worth a listen if you have the opportunity.

[Jorgitox]

I also have a pair of the 800 Matrix. Once my Wilsons come in, they will be moved to replace the 801s in my other system. There is absolutely no comparison between the Matrix 800s and the 801s. They are significantly more detailed, dynamic and far more musical than the 801s could ever hope to be. The current 800D speakers are neither a replacement nor an upgrade to them, but rather an alternative with a different type of sound in a much smaller, more room friendly package.
The Matrix 800s are very unique and worth a listen if you have the opportunity.

So there's more than dynamics between them... interesting. I hope I can finally get them. I also think they are unique.

[Jorgitox]

Josh, what have you found on the Maxx that the 800's didn't have?

[Fife]

Josh, what have you found on the Maxx that the 800's didn't have?

Mainly detail and transparency.

The current 800D speakers are neither a replacement nor an upgrade to them, but rather an alternative with a different type of sound...

Well said.

[Josh]

So there's more than dynamics between them... interesting. I hope I can finally get them. I also think they are unique.

Much more.

[Josh]

Mainly detail and transparency.

For the most part, yes.

[kmanusa]

I remember hearing both the Matrix 800 and the Matrix 801 at a dealer showroom here in the DC metro areas years ago. I was very impressed with the 800 and not only for the reasons already expressed in this thread. The one thing that struck me about the 800 was the size of the image relative to the 801: the 800 presented a much bigger soundstage than the 801, with lots of ambient cues and detail. Very thrilling! I wish I had the money and the room size to accommodate them. BTW, I use Matrix 801 S2s.

[Jorgitox]

Here in Spain, the 800's retailed for about €18.000 (more than $20.000), while the 801's were cost from €4.000 (sometimes even less) to €5.000. We are talking about an extra amount of 3 times and a half between them, so sound-stage, precision and life-like atmosphere couldn't match when compared to each other (obvios if we take a look of both prices). The 800's may sound approximately to the 808's (two 801's in each speaker), but more accurate for sure.

Kmanusa, I also got a pair of Matrix 801 S2's, but now they are positioned as rears when the S3's did arrive. I took more than a week and a half for listening between them, but finally the S3's were a true improvement when performing difficult instruments like the piano (the improvement here is amazing!). The Series II are more BMW style, while the S3's go like a Mercedes.

[Jorgitox]

Well, well, well,... I just have won a pair of Matrix 801 Series I in black ash. Now it's time to sell the two 801's pairs I got at home. Well, first of all I want the 800's arrive home (from Germany to the Canary Islands, Spain) just to check everything was ok and nothing happens in transit. Someone knows the differences between both series?

I am really happy

[Jorgitox]

Here are some pictures of them.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16HGMR5X

(Terrific shape, according to the pictures)

Somebody could tell me the differences between Matrix 800 Series I and II? Tweeter's colour is different from both Series, and the woofers are made with the Series II material, without the S3's Cobex. Any info about it?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16HGMR5X

[Josh]

Here are some pictures of them.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16HGMR5X

(Terrific shape, according to the pictures)

Somebody could tell me the differences between Matrix 800 Series I and II? Tweeter's colour is different from both Series, and the woofers are made with the Series II material, without the S3's Cobex. Any info about it?





http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16HGMR5X

It looks like some of the drivers were removed at one point due to the different color screws holding them in place. Also, the spacing between the cabinets is off, but you should be able to fix that when you put them back together after getting them.
I was not aware there were different series for the 800.

[Jorgitox]

It looks like some of the drivers were removed at one point due to the different color screws holding them in place.

Hi Josh;

Thank you very much for your falcon eye, 'cos I did not realize about it. I will ask the seller just to confirm what has happened in the past with the drivers (changes, just opening and see what's inside, ...).

Also, the spacing between the cabinets is off, but you should be able to fix that when you put them back together after getting them.

You are right once more; I have checked Nikos Mendrinos 800's and I have seen the spacers you have mentioned. I will ask the seller for them.

I was not aware there were different series for the 800.

Yes, there were two Series. Maybe the Series II included Cobex for the woofers (like the Matrix 801 Series III edition), maybe any change within the crossover and tweeter, which I have seen in two colours: gold plated and silver like. I just have emailed B&W staff for clarifying it; when answering me, I will let you know.

[Jorgitox]

Well, after waiting for a long, long time, the Matrix 800 are finally at home. I just did spend an hour for audition them (I ended up assembling them up to 00:00 a.m.). People told me that and they weren't wrong: they just cannot be compared with any Matrix 801, independently of which Series were they. They play in another league, few steps over the little robots. I am really happy that the adventure had a happy ending.

I will attach detailed pics when cleaning and positioning the 800's in the waiting room.

Thanks to all of you for all the info supplied in this thread.

[Kobus]

I will attach detailed pics

Please do and congrats.

Kobus

[Jorgitox]

Thanks, Kobus. I will post them tonight.

[Jorgitox]

Here are the promised pics:










About the speakers? I just can say they are the very best ones I have ever heard. My beloved Matrix 801 cannot compete with the "big towers" in any sense. They are truly amazing!

[JürgenW]

Hi Jorgitox,

Could you give the measurements of the room the speakers are in and the position of the speakers in the room?

Good to read you enjoy them so much. Have fun.

Jürgen

[Jorgitox]

Hi Jürgen;

Room's measures are about 3,57 (wide) x 5,35 (deep) x 2,81 (high) meters. The speakers are located in the smallest wall (3,57 m). It could sound too small for them, but although they can dramatically improve in a bigger room, they perform really good in such a little space. I was told that the 800's had the special feature of performing incredibly good in any space. I really enjoy them, listening to music like never before, and not because of higher volume or sound pressure, but image.

[JürgenW]

Thanks, Jorgitox,

As a Matrix 801 listener I always have a hesitating and longing gaze on the 800 when I see them offered on the internet (which is very seldom).

(And a small room looks smaller with them in it, I suppose. )

Jürgen

[Jorgitox]

Thanks, Jorgitox,
As a Matrix 801 listener I always have a hesitating and longing gaze on the 800 when I see them offered on the internet (which is very seldom).

Yes, they are rarely seen in the second hand market. Maybe because they are definitive speakers... where to go after them?

(And a small room looks smaller with them in it, I suppose. )

Yes, you're right. I think I am not always living were I do today .

[Jorgitox]

One more

[Josh]

Jorgitox,

Congratulations on your "new" speakers. The Matrix 800s truly are a very special speaker. Setting them up is a pain, but the results are quite worth it.

How did you wire your's up?


Here are some pictures of my 800s in their current listening room...

[Fife]

Je l'aime! :hb

[Briz vegas]

Interesting thread guys.

Can you imagaine a 5.1 setup of these puppies (great danes ?).

Its also interesting that the 800 is still regarded so highly despite the advent of diamond tweeters and the like.

[Jorgitox]

Your system set up looks like a landscape, Josh. Congratulations for showing a great taste. When the Wilson's arrive at your house, please try to compared them (what one pair got that the other don't, etc.) and let us know.

[Josh]

Your system set up looks like a landscape, Josh. Congratulations for showing a great taste. When the Wilson's arrive at your house, please try to compared them (what one pair got that the other don't, etc.) and let us know.

Thank you. I definitely will do that when the Wilsons come in and get set up.

[Jorgitox]

Interesting thread guys.

Can you imagaine a 5.1 setup of these puppies (great danes ?).

5.1? Do you think a sub is necessary? :W

Its also interesting that the 800 is still regarded so highly despite the advent of diamond tweeters and the like.

The 800's were developed more or less at the same time than the Nautilus (conch ones), so many attributes could be shared between both achievements. I was told that the "conchs" sound more like a Matrix 801 S3 than the equivalent within Nautilus range.

[Jorgitox]

How did you wire your's up?

Between MIT TERMINATOR 3 and QED 25th Anniversary. As you have realized, I really don't really waste the time and money on improving through cables.


What I need is opened space for making them breathe, but all in due time.

Regards and don't forget giving expressions to both giants! :T

[evp1312]

Series I & II ?

>>Yes, there were two Series. Maybe the Series II included Cobex for the woofers (like the Matrix 801 Series III edition), maybe any change within the crossover and tweeter, which I have seen in two colours: gold plated and silver like. I just have emailed B&W staff for clarifying it; when answering me, I will let you know.<<

Any update on the difference on tweeter & woofer of Matrix 800 between different series ? I was never aware that there were any series II or III. My pair was manufactured in March 1995 (the latest ?) and the tweeter appeared gold in colour. The B&W label near the binding post was printed Series I anyhow. Thanks.

[RNKC]

Hi guys. I guess this is an older thread but I'm just seeing it now.

I notice that Josh (nice room, nice setup!) and Joritox have the speakers setup opposite of each other. i.e. Triangles pointing inward vs outwards. Do you guys think it makes any difference other than the way things look?

I've often wondered about these speakers. Nice to learn that they can still hold their own.

[evp1312]

Hi RNKC,

An extract from Stereohile by Lewis Lipnick (June 1991) :

"Although B&W conditionally recommends that the speakers be placed well out from the rear wall, angled in toward the listener (to prevent shifting of the image with head movements), with woofer points outward (away from the oppossing speker), my experience, so far, would suggest that there is no set rule; experimenting is of ultmost importance. I have the two speakers set approximately 40" from the rear wall (which is lined by cabinets full of LPs and CDs), with woffer points facing inward, placing the central midrenge/tweeter cabinets 78" apart, on center. Each speaker is about about 30" from the side wall. The two speakers are aligned inward, slightly more open than total convergence at listening position, which is 114" from the drivers. Although several other configurations were tried, this appeared to create the best balance of soundstage dimensionality, along with the fewest room/speker interface problems. I have found ....pointing the woofer outward causes some ringing that may be due to reflections from the mid-range drivers along the concave cavity between woofers enclosure from the room side walls. There is slughtly wider soundstage with the woofer points out, but an upper-midrange emphasis in this position makes everything sound a bit forward and hard in my room."

Hope this will help.

[Graham]

I'm not sure it's that fair comparing those 800's to the 801 (or 802's, which some say are actually better than the 801: faster, tighter bass).

If you open up the 800's and look at the crossover and then compare that to the 801 I think you'll see a big reason for the difference in sound quality. I think the 800 series had a "proper" crossover with air core inductors and good quality caps. The 801 and 802 (even the series III) had relatively cheap Bennic components. I might be wrong but it's what I remember from seeing a photo of the 800 crossover some time ago.

Unless you replace the crossover in the 801s then you won't be getting anything like the performance they are capable of. You could buy the North Creek crossovers or just build your own (like I did for my 802s3) - either way you'll improve them significantly.

Of course, the 800's will still sound better, but at least it will be a fairer comparison!

My web page

[evp1312]

Will you consider yourself a die hard B&amp;W fan ?

photo is copied from a Japanese web-site

[IMG]The Front ... [/IMG]

[evp1312]

Will you consider yourself a die-hard B&amp;W fan

Photo copied from a Japanese web-site.

By the way, same room.

and the REAR ......

[evp1312]

A picture of the mid-tweeter crossover
[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2240968491_51d6256dd3.jpg?v=0[IMG]

[evp1312]

[foruu]

My filter's capacitors are differents!





B&W Matrix 800 Serial number 043.

[evp1312]

Interesting.
The marking on the circuit board as well as the placement of a component in the left bottom corner are also different.
My pair's s/n are 478.

[evp1312]

A glimpse at it .....

[Jorgitox]

evp1312, I saw long ago that you were selling your sculptures. Did you finally sell them out? I just don't image which set of speakers are now in stead of the 800's 8O.

Graham; thanks so much for your blog/website. I also got a pair of 802 S3 and it's nice to check your updating instructions. They'll be so important in case I think of modifying them.

Best regards,
Jgtx.

[Grompa]

Hi Jorgitox,
I noticed that this thread is already open since a long time. So, how is the situation, still as happy with your Matrix 800 speakers as in the beginning? I can only guess that your answer is yes!
I intend to buy a pair of these legendary speakers shortly. The remaining point I still have to "investigate" is how to drive them the best way. Simple wiring, bi-wiring or tri-wiring? Bi-wiring apparently seems to be a good option. What about bi-amping? If somebody had the opportunity to test different options with this speaker system, I would be happy to get his feedback. For your information, I've got some Linn equipment at home for the moment, unfortunately not from the Klimax series but nevertheless from the Linn house.
Thx in advance guys,
Grompa