B&W 804s

[tran_tuan_duc]

Hi room,I am using DENON 2000AE to drive the B&W 703s,now I want to upgrade my system,my budget is about 2000$,I don't know which one to upgade first,amp or speaker,my tips is:
Upgrade 703s to 804s
Upgrade DENON 2000AE to Accuphse E 406v,407 or 408
I only can afford 1 of the two above first,and the other will be upgrade later after saving enough money.
So can you give me an advise in order to get the best efficient.
Looking forward to receiving your replies,thanks a lot
Regards,

[Briz vegas]

One vote for 804 first.

What are you looking to improve? If it is bass the maybe a beefier amp is the best solution. If it is overall sound quality then 804 may be a better option. 804 may also be the better option if the trade up scheme they have in the US operates where you are.

PS Denon are a bit dodgy with their specs on that amp. It seems to me that with their power ratings 8ohm to 4ohm they compare apples to oranges to make it look like the power doubles, and I quote....

80W + 80W (8Ω, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, THD 0.07%)
160W + 160W (4Ω, 1 kHz, THD 0.7%)

[tran_tuan_duc]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

[Ade]

One vote for 804 first.

What are you looking to improve? If it is bass the maybe a beefier amp is the best solution. If it is overall sound quality then 804 may be a better option. 804 may also be the better option if the trade up scheme they have in the US operates where you are.

PS Denon are a bit dodgy with their specs on that amp. It seems to me that with their power ratings 8ohm to 4ohm they compare apples to oranges to make it look like the power doubles, and I quote....

80W + 80W (8Ω, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, THD 0.07%)
160W + 160W (4Ω, 1 kHz, THD 0.7%)

I'd go for the speaker upgrade too.

As for the Denon power doubling - the better quality amps will double the wattage when going from an 8 to a 4 ohm load so there is nothing "dodgy" about it, quite the opposite in fact.

[Ade]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

I was set on getting a pair of 703's until I heard the 804S' - I found the 703's a little harsh on the high end compared to the 804S but in the room I auditioned them I couldn't say there were many other differences besides that even though B&W make a big thing out of those carbon fibre bass drivers in the 800 series.

If you can, audition the two side by side before you decide.

[yourtoys7]

804S and I wouldn't look back :>, that's what I did, will be getting my next week.

[tboooe]

I agree with everyone here...speakers first then everything else.

[Ade]

I'd go for the speaker upgrade too.

As for the Denon power doubling - the better quality amps will double the wattage when going from an 8 to a 4 ohm load so there is nothing "dodgy" about it, quite the opposite in fact.

I think I just got what you meant ops:

You meant that it puts out 80w into 8ohm across the 20Hz - 20 kHz range but it only states a doubling into 4 ohms at 1kHz...

OK, then I agree, it does seem like they've worded it to imply that it doubles across the whole range and it would be easy to miss with a quick glance.

I really should stop putting my foot in my mouth. ops:

[Boone38]

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago and went for the 804s. They have really opened my ears. I also found them much more open and having greater depth. My wife and I listen to allot of female vocals and there is a marked difference between the 703 and the 804s.
My vote is to go for the 804s and then look a an amp in the future.
Enjoy

[dknightd]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

To me that suggests the speaker upgrade might want to come first. Sometimes I wish I had held off a bit and sprung for the 804 instead of the 703. But for now I'm enjoying the 703 well enough. Unfortunately my dealer went out of business, and the other B&W dealer in town does not deal in used equipment, so a simple trade up in speakers is not an option to me.
The 703 really do open up when they have some power available. If you always listen at relatively low volumes then perhaps this is not an issue to you. But if you sometimes like to turn it up (where most every B&W speaker I've heard really starts shining) you might benifit from a more powerful amp first.
There are just so many variables, it is hard to say what a person should do.
For instance, what you decide to do might depend on what you can sell or trade in your existing gear for. If you lose much money on each upgrade, you might want to save up and skip a step instead of doing incremental upgrades. Or you might just want to buy more music. . .

Is your room treated at all? You might be better off spending your money on a mixture of room treatments and well recorded music. It is amazing what a few hundred dollars of well placed, fabric covered, compressed fiberglass can do to the sound of a stereo/room. The "harsh" high's you are hearing now could just be due to wall/floor/ceiling reflections, and, almost any typical listening room will benefit by lots of broadband bass absorbsion. If you don't want to do it yourself you can probably buy what you need within your budget, and I suspect it will make more difference than either of the speaker or amp upgrades you are considering.

[jim777]

The 703's are great with great electronics. I guess it's the synergy stuff again. Mine sound great with McIntosh electronics. No harshness what-so-ever. I wouldn't trade for a 804S+Rotel system of the same value, never.

I hope to upgrade to 803D's or 802D's some day though... but who doesn't

[Briz vegas]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

Not wanting to add to your options, but........ another thing you might like to consider is your source. I compared a few CD players recently and noticed that some provided a far more solid sound compared to others through the same system (it wasn't a B&W system but I think it still applies). If you can try something like a Naim 5x CD player. It is a well regarded player and I found that it provided the weight often missing from vocals when compared to other players. I do not have one yet, but it is high on my list for my next upgrade (I am currently still using a NAD T562 which does ok CD playback, but it is a DVD player in a system that is used 80% plus for music)

[B&W 700 Guy]

Hi room,I am using DENON 2000AE to drive the B&W 703s,now I want to upgrade my system,my budget is about 2000$,I don't know which one to upgade first,amp or speaker,my tips is:
Upgrade 703s to 804s
Upgrade DENON 2000AE to Accuphse E 406v,407 or 408
I only can afford 1 of the two above first,and the other will be upgrade later after saving enough money.
So can you give me an advise in order to get the best efficient.
Looking forward to receiving your replies,thanks a lot
Regards,

I would upgrade amp first then save your money for some 803's. Your denon does not have enough power to drive the 703'S to their best performance.

[tran_tuan_duc]

Thank you for your opinions,I will borrow a great power amp to try testing my 703,if it is still harsh then I will consider the 804s.Thank you again!
Regards

[marano]

Hi room,I am using DENON 2000AE to drive the B&W 703s,now I want to upgrade my system,my budget is about 2000$,I don't know which one to upgade first,amp or speaker,my tips is:
Upgrade 703s to 804s
Upgrade DENON 2000AE to Accuphse E 406v,407 or 408
I only can afford 1 of the two above first,and the other will be upgrade later after saving enough money.
So can you give me an advise in order to get the best efficient.
Looking forward to receiving your replies,thanks a lot
Regards,

When I google the "DENON 2000AE" it comes up as a SACD player, is this correct? If so what else are you using?

[chinets]

Speakers First!!!!!!!!!!

Speakers first all the way!!!!!!!! When you get more Kashoula go for the Amp!!! :T

SPEAKERS FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;x(
Cheers and good luck!!!!!!!!!

[jim777]

I agree with Briz vegas in the sense that both the amp and the source must be good or the 703's will sound harsh. And yes, upgrading my source from a Rotel to a McIntosh made a big difference in bass extension and "musicality".

It sounded like a speaker upgrade!! That should only give you more questions instead of answers

[lvhung]

Your harsh problem is ( electrnoics + cables ) , I am sure 100% it is not 703

[Ade]

Your harsh problem is ( electrnoics + cables ) , I am sure 100% it is not 703

I've auditioned the 703 at two different premises running on two different sets of electronics and it sounded pretty much the same to me. It's not a very harsh speaker it's just harsher on the high frequencies compared to the 800 series, and for some it just may seem too bright.

[tboooe]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

I know this is blasphemy but maybe you want a warmer, sweeter brand of speaker. Ones that I have heard that are phenomenal at female vocals, producing a sweet, syrupy sound are the Vienna Acoustics and Sonus Faber. They are very laid back and smooooooooth sounding, very much like listening to tubes. I found them too laid back and not quite engaging enough. However, this could be the kind of sound you prefer vs the detailed and slightly warm sound of the B&W.

[NonSense]

Thank you Briz,my present system is still ok,except sometime it sounds harsh in high frequency,bass is ok,I need an smoother and thicker voice,I like listening to female vocal.

tboooe might be right.

If you are looking to change out your speakers in order to smooth out what you consider harsh, you may want to audition some brands (outside of B&W)that offer soft dome tweeters. Pro-Ac's are one brand that comes to mind.

[AptosJeff]

I've auditioned the 703 at two different premises running on two different sets of electronics and it sounded pretty much the same to me. It's not a very harsh speaker it's just harsher on the high frequencies compared to the 800 series, and for some it just may seem too bright.

I will second Ade's opinion here. The 703 is brighter and harsher to me than the 800's I have listened to; the 804 and 805 sound smoother and less distorted to me. And I would agree with other posts, that while both the 700's and 800's are good, there are smoother, warmer sounding speakers out there. I would also suggest you listen to amps and sources, as these can contribute a lot to harshness.

[RebelMan]

tboooe might be right.

If you are looking to change out your speakers in order to smooth out what you consider harsh, you may want to audition some brands (outside of B&W)that offer soft dome tweeters. Pro-Ac's are one brand that comes to mind.

I believe both of you are fairly accurate in your descriptions. I found the Dynaudio's with their silk dome tweeter to be very laid back also, almost too laid back. But with the right equipment they too can sound soultry in the vocal region. I found them too dry for my tastes but they are another alternative tran_tuan_duc may want to consider.

Denon's somewhat warm character should pair well with any of the 800's which are typically less bright and forward than the 700 series. I would probably go for the 804 upgrade first followed by one of the Accuphase amplifiers.

[RebelMan]

I agree with Briz vegas in the sense that both the amp and the source must be good or the 703's will sound harsh. And yes, upgrading my source from a Rotel to a McIntosh made a big difference in bass extension and "musicality".

It sounded like a speaker upgrade!! That should only give you more questions instead of answers

Agreed! My Rotel to Classe' system upgrade did likewise. Still some people may not notice frontend upgrades as readily as changes in speakers.

[tran_tuan_duc]

When I google the "DENON 2000AE" it comes up as a SACD player, is this correct? If so what else are you using?

oh no,if you use google searching,you should type "DENON PMA 2000AE"
Regards

[tazmoj]

804s

I too am looking to upgrade my center to the 804s, then eventiually the floor stnding speakers as well. I', now concerned with my receiver ( Yamaha rsv-2600 ) as it may not have enough power?? What is your opinion on this?? How many watts per channel should I have??

[chuck1801]

The 804Ss don't require much power. My brother has a pair being powered by an Arcam Solo -- 50 watts per channel. They sound terrific.

[tazmoj]

Thanks. Every time you think you have something figured out in this "game" there is a new twist or product.

[KenK]

FST in the 804 should give you a "thicker" voice and the new S tweekers are smoother than the 704's or the old 804N.

[dknightd]

Thank you for your opinions,I will borrow a great power amp to try testing my 703,if it is still harsh then I will consider the 804s.Thank you again!
Regards

Just wondering if you had a chance to try a different amp yet, and what the results were . . .

[tran_tuan_duc]

Hi everyone,I finally got the 804s speakers first,the overall sound improve obviously,the high frequency is not as harsh as the 703s,about the mid range I think it is the same to 703 but the bass is more soft but not weak and... I don't know how to explain,I just say that when I listen to the 804s,I feel more comfortable than the 703 with some pops and a little excited songs.And I agree with chuck1801 when he said that he said that 804s don't require much power,I drive it with DENON PMA 2000AE,it is still ok.
Thank you very much for your preciuos idea.

[Briz vegas]

Glad you like your 804s. Happy listening.