Worth it? B&W 804S Side Surround???

[owl1]

I have a desire to go to a 7.2 setup with currently comprising 803S mains HTM3S center and SCMS rear surrounds as well as a velodyne DD15 sub and Cambridge soundworks sub. I just picked up over Christmas holiday the Pioneer Elite Rcvr 94 and BD95 Elite Bluray disc player so I can hear the latest surround formats in TrueHD Bitstream and DTS MA lossless and have to say I was quite impressed with their naturalness,dynamics, clarity and immersive soundscapes.


My experimenting ended up connecting a pair of unused Cambridge soundworks speakers I had in my basement as side surrounds to hear what 7.1 could do, and was mightily impressed at how much more immersive the soundfield became. I'm sold on having this setup and was wondering if I should match 804S (5000$ US new) as the side surrounds or if I can more affordably pick up a used pair of 804's which are around $2k US or so. I'm willing to pay if the benefit is there but I'm not so sure as the side surrounds are literally on the ends of a row of 4 seats pointing directly towards the seated parties. Are 804/804S that different in this setup and do you think side surrounds would be too close to the listening position?

My other question is: for a side surround speaker will I notice a difference tonally between 804S and 804 Nautilus speakers? If so how much and what?

[owl1]

As a matter of illustration, this is how close they will be (my 803's moved to the position I plan on putting 804's):

[owl1]

[owl1]

Still looking for opinions...anyone??

[DM3000 Owner]

Still looking for opinions...anyone??

Buy the N804's or even better, buy N805's and put the saved money aside for a big future upgrade.

[george_k]

My suggestion
1) Get rid of the Cambridge soundworks sub, add another DD15
2) Use the sound works speakers as additional surrounds until the funds permit you to do another upgrade.
3) Get 2 additional SCMS or 805's since they match the existing SCMS


Rationale
1) Since you already have a 2nd sub I imagine that the benefit of its inclusion is very apparent to you (otherwise you probably would have removed it). There is, however, a mismatch between your two subs. What also matters is how your subs placed relative to your speakers?

2) *Optional*if financing doesn't permit you to go ahead with step 3 right away

3) In an ideal setup you would have 7 of the same speaker in a multichannel setup. The next best thing would be to match the front and back half separately.

Your front half is already matched. If you were to add 804's to the mix you'd have a mismatch in your back speakers. Also, I don't really see the benefit of having an ubber fancy FST-based speaker for surround purposes and you already stated that the Cambridge speaker addition impressed you in terms of immersiveness. So, for these reasons I'd suggest sticking with either SCMS's or 805's if space doesn't permit.

*edit* I can't see your pictures, might be my firewall though

[Race Car Driver]

I am in the same boat.

I am picking up a complete Nautilus 5.1 setup (all black N804s, HTM2, SCM1s) this weekend, and will only be keeping a portion of it.

I currently have N802s, HTM1, and dont know what I want to keep for my surrounds, the N804s or SCM-1s. (part of me wants ot keep both, however my room is so small)

I would think N804s would be a great option if you have the space.

[RobP]

Chris. where are you picking your stuff up at?

[owl1]

My suggestion
1) Get rid of the Cambridge soundworks sub, add another DD15
2) Use the sound works speakers as additional surrounds until the funds permit you to do another upgrade.
3) Get 2 additional SCMS or 805's since they match the existing SCMS


Rationale
1) Since you already have a 2nd sub I imagine that the benefit of its inclusion is very apparent to you (otherwise you probably would have removed it). There is, however, a mismatch between your two subs. What also matters is how your subs placed relative to your speakers?

2) *Optional*if financing doesn't permit you to go ahead with step 3 right away

3) In an ideal setup you would have 7 of the same speaker in a multichannel setup. The next best thing would be to match the front and back half separately.

Your front half is already matched. If you were to add 804's to the mix you'd have a mismatch in your back speakers. Also, I don't really see the benefit of having an ubber fancy FST-based speaker for surround purposes and you already stated that the Cambridge speaker addition impressed you in terms of immersiveness. So, for these reasons I'd suggest sticking with either SCMS's or 805's if space doesn't permit.

*edit* I can't see your pictures, might be my firewall though

Pic links:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9780/img0391yr0.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5517/img0641fw8.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6033/img0642hz7.jpg

Interesting comments. I hadn't thought about matching front and back halves as I don't have a lot of surround sound exerience (with 7.1 anyway) as it's all kind of new. As you can see from the new picture I'm limited in how far away the SS speakers can be placed as they intrude in the room already.

[owl1]

Also, I can't use a monitor type speaker as the connections on the back of the speaker will be more plainly visible on there than a floorstander where the speaker terminals are lower to the ground.

BTW am trying a McIntosh MC207 amp and have to say it really takes a hold of the S series speakers in a big way. Huge upgrade from the Elite's internal amps. The first scene in Cars now seems more real, when he first turns his engine on in the car trailer it's truly awesome. My center just sounded too lightweight without enough body previously. The Mac amp really gives it some meat on the bode. Also, the elite is not a bad preamp but I'm hearing a slight buzzing sound I can't eliminate. May go with Theta Dreadnaught but have no idea how they'd sound on the B&W S series speakers.

[dan87951]

There isn't much difference between the N804 and the 804S in my opinion. I have heard them both and the bass and highs are slightly improved wth the biggest improvement being the bass. But for almost $2500 more over the N804's not worth it! I suggust getting SCM1's or N805's for rear surround duty if space is tight.

[owl1]

Dan

Thanks for that opinion. Saves me some $$$. I could go for 2 pairs of 804N, for side surround and rear surrounds for the cost of an 804S! I really don't want to do satellite type speakers because of chance of an 805 getting knocked over by dog, kids, drunk visitors, etc. 8^) as it sticks out into the room. Also the aesthetics of the 8 series floorstanders from behind is quite sculptural and attractive otherwise I'd consider other B&W's that are less money.

BTW, cool 944T. I used to have a red one and it outperformed my Carrera - better handling and faster with a custom chip and larger turbo wastegate aftermarket. Thing was a rocket! Drive fast, Drive SAFE!

[dan87951]

No Problem!
Yea those 911 guys never understand that there engine is in the wrong place.

Dan

Thanks for that opinion. Saves me some $$$. I could go for 2 pairs of 804N, for side surround and rear surrounds for the cost of an 804S! I really don't want to do satellite type speakers because of chance of an 805 getting knocked over by dog, kids, drunk visitors, etc. 8^) as it sticks out into the room. Also the aesthetics of the 8 series floorstanders from behind is quite sculptural and attractive otherwise I'd consider other B&W's that are less money.

BTW, cool 944T. I used to have a red one and it outperformed my Carrera - better handling and faster with a custom chip and larger turbo wastegate aftermarket. Thing was a rocket! Drive fast, Drive SAFE!

[Race Car Driver]

If you got room for N804s why not go with N803s?

[owl1]

Christopher, good point - it would be cool to have the same fronts and sides. My dealer keeps saying that I won't save that much space with 804's vs 803's but where they're going inches do count as you have to scoot between the pool table and the speaker. Also, errant pool cues are more likely to take out an higher 803 tweeter than an 804 since it's lower I reckon.

Also, I may have the ability to forego the side surround directly on the seat with an 803 and place them in the far back corners where the scms currently reside and move the scms up onto the 45 degree ceiling closer to the center of the back wall, flanking on the sides of the projector. A much safer position.

While this would be a little unconventional, it would place the rears higher and further behind the seats in a more central position and possibly open up a direct line from the speakers to ears where right now the rears are somewhat blocked by the high seat backs. This would take a little engineering to make sure they stick to the ceiling at that angle and I'm not sure B&W's speaker attachment is made for this type of position.

What I can tell you is that when hooked up the 803's on the sides It was shocking at how much difference having a full range floorstanding surround makes. And the SCMS are no slouches either.

[style]

@owl1

I have the 803s, htm3s and rear the 805s.
I think that the 804s "too much", well nothing is to much but with the 805s and SMCS you will be very happy. save the money und upgrade the electronic!!!

I say so if do you use yuor system much for movie (I utilise my system 95% for movie and not for multi-stereo) --> the 805s is a VERY GOOD speakers.

go with the 805s without doubt.

Greetings from Switzerland.
Omar