upgrade from 804S to 803D?

[chemguy]

I currently am using the 804S' powered by Bryston's B100 SST integrated amp. Although rated at 100 W, the spec sheet that came with the amp, shows this to be conservative as it is actually more around 140 W. I am considering moving up to the 803D's since my first year of ownership of the 804's is almost over and I would like to take advantage of the one year speaker upgrade policy.

Let me just say that I really like my current setup. Despite the ever present problems with room acoustics, the quality of the sound continues to amaze me. Still, the nasty upgrade bug keeps reminding me I could be getting a better speaker with much sweeter highs and superior base extension (which is where I find the 804S lacking). What's holding me back are questions about my amp. It is essentially a 2B SST. Will it be able to deliver enough power to drive the base drivers on the 803D such that I will notice a significant improvement? So many threads on this forum seem to indicate I need at least 200 W to make these speakers really "sing". If I'm going to fork out the additional 4-5k$ CAN for this upgrade, I want to be sure of the improvements.

I was recently into the store where I bought my system and they assured me the B100 would easily drive the speakers. Unfortunately, they had no 803D's in stock (and do not expect any soon) so I was not able to do a test. They had the 802D's in stock but I do not want to go this route as it really is out of my budget and they simply would not fit in with the current set up of our living room.
Any comments, suggestions? Thanks for any input you might have!

[kurtholz]

Can't comment on the amp issue, but i would think you would need a lot more to do the 803D justice, i did get to listen to those before doing the 802D, ( upgrade from 803N)

i got mine for $9000.00,so maybe you can do a deal and get some 802D's for the same, let me say, i have bought a lot of stuff from my dealer this year, so he kinda owed me a deal, so this might affect your ability to get the 802d's this low

i am using a 5 channel Krell home theater standard, bi-amping the fronts , so i am getting in the 400 watts at 8 ohms, doubling to 800 watts to each one,

absolute complete bliss, no upgraditis in me at this point, i think the 803d is many notches lower than it's big brother, and the footprint isnt that much different,

something to think about, just my opinion, i'm sure there are many other roads you can take to get you there, (audio nirvana)

good luck

Kurt

[Eliav]

Hi
My personal take on this is - try to build a balanced system. if you have no near future plans on upgrading your WHOLE system do not push it towards places you dont want to go. I see no point in getting 802d/803d with modest/low power amplification thus planting the seeds for future upgrade bugs and for dissatisfaction(" gee, i wonder how these 803d will sound with a 400watt krell/levinson/classe" ). getting the best of better speakers usually entails buying better and stronger amplification and signal processing (pre/pro).
have you considered using your budget for a better amp. or upgrading to 803s?
If you however anticipate long process of on going upgrades
( torture/pleasure pathway most of us experience..) than get the best speakers you can afford and later upgrade the electronics.
hope it helps
cheers
Eliav

[Hoffi]

A year ago, I planned the same upgrade. After listening several times to the 803D, I decided NOT to buy it because I was not pleased by the sound improvement compared to 804. So I made the bigger step and went for the 802D. :T So try to find a dealer, where you can listen to 803D with your own equipment before making a decision!

[scanido]

If you go the 803D route you will definately need to do them justice with stronger amplification. I suggest giving your 804S a listen with a stronger amp prior, you'll be surprised at how much more bass and more detail you will get with say a 4B-SST.

I currently have a 4B-ST driviing my 804S and i feel that the sound is not lacking at all - to each his own. Of course this could be my room, but I would say it is a medium sized room - 18 x 14 and the bass is full, loud and controlled.

The 803D are nice, but get ready to spend the same amount on upgrading the electronics. What about the center channel, if your into HT, there's another cost getting the more expensive HMT2D, and then that would need better electronics as well. It goes on and on.

[chemguy]

Thank you everyone for all your comments so far. You've given me some great things to consider.

I do have one question, and forgive my ignorance on these issues of wattage and sound quality. I seldom listen to my music at anything above "moderate" levels. Why then should a 400 W amp improve the sound quality over a 150 W amp if I was to listen to them both at the same "comfortable" decibel level. I can understand how more power could drive the speakers to "louder" levels, but at quieter levels, how does greater wattage improve the bass response. Possibly this issue is no longer a B&W one, so if this issue has been addressed in other forums or threads, just redirect me to them.

Thanks again for your advice.

[Eliav]

try to drive a Toyota Camrey on 80 miles/hours, and than switch to Aston Martin Vanquish (V12 engine) on the SAME SPEED, would you be able to tell the difference ?
In which of the two will you be able to accellerate to 100mph quickly and effortlessly if need be ?
In which of the two, you feel like having enormouse power reserve available any time you need it ?
Quality of build difference ?
Overall driving experience ?
and I can go on and on
Power amps. are your system engine. it will very much determine your system flexibility, agility smoothness/harshness and so forth. it's not the speed your going (=the volume you're playing..) it's the overall quality of the ride
(= overall quality of sound)

My 2 cents on power amps. :W
Cheers
Eliav

[dknightd]

I wouldn't buy the 803D without listening to them first using your amp and comparing them to your current speakers. If you listen at moderate levels then your amp
might be fine. But your definition of moderate might not be the same as others.
I'd rather have the 803d than the 804s, but I can only afford 703, so perhaps
my opinion is not as useful as others.
It does sound to me that room acoustics should be your first upgrade.

It must be tempting to take advantage of the first year trade in program, but,
I wouldn't do it unless you planned to also upgrade room (and perhaps amp)
in the forseeable future.

[chemguy]

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I think I'll probably stick with the 804S'. I have arguably one of the best integrated amps on the market right now paired with an excellent speaker. The extra 5 k$ CAN just doesn't seem justifiably worth it considering my happiness with my current system.

Although I haven't heard my amp with the 803D's, I did have a chance to listen to it with the 802D's...it was nice BUT I was a little disappointed that the sound was not better than it was. I know, this is almost a sacrilegious thing to say on this site, the 802D being so highly revered, but it was no doubt due to the lack of symbiosis between the amp and speakers.

Anyway $5000 can go a long way and with three kids and summer vacation on the way, there are more important things in life to consider, at least IMHO...

[scanido]

Great choice, $5000 CAD is indeed a huge chunk of cash! 804S's are excellent speakers in their own right. Enjoy the speakers!