B&W 803d vs 804s- anyone's experience ?

[Eliav]

Hi
I am trying to find the best B&W match for my rotel 1095 (recently purchased).
I have listened to the 804s and loved it,although I tfelt the lower ends to be a bit limited. I also auditioned the 802d and was really excited. unfortunately, my dealer did not have the 803d as a demo.
Can anybody share his/her experience with this speaker ? will it be adequately driven by the 1095 ?
P.S I have an english translation of a greek audition of the 803d, pretty disappointing I would say..

Thanks

Eliav

[jlee]

I would go with the 804S. 1095 will drive them very nicely. It's an amp I had for my 804's for 2 years. Anything higher than the 804S, and the 1095 really doesn't do the speaker justice.

[Eliav]

Thanks
what about the 803s ?, reportedly, they have the same power amp requirements as the 804s (200w). By the way, I auditioned the 802d with the rotel 1095 and a Mcintosh, the rotel had done a very nice job...
thanks again
Eliav

[RebelMan]

The 803S's are rated for 250 watts not 200. The ROTEL RMB-1095 will drive the 803S's pretty well but like jlee said it would be better suited for the 804S's.

[Eliav]

re

Thanks guys, appreciate your input !!
Eliav

[jlee]

The 803S's are rated for 250 watts not 200. The ROTEL RMB-1095 will drive the 803S's pretty well but like jlee said it would be better suited for the 804S's.

The 803S (assuming it's roughly the same in the impedance curve as the old N803) will actually be EASIER to drive than the N804 since it is 1dB more efficient (actually on paper B&W said 1dB, but in practice it seems to be a bit more than that, maybe 1.5 dB)... the new 804S has the same efficiency on paper and with similar cabinet and driver sizes, should be about the same to drive as the 803S... however, what I meant is that pricewise, the 1095 is suitable for the N804 or 804S, but if you go with the 803S which is $1500 more than the 804S, IMHO, you could get SO much more from the 803S with a better amp than the 1095. At that price point, the 1095 begins to become the weaklink and that's what I meant by "not doing the 803S justice."

[Eliav]

I understand.
I actualy experienced the "doing justice with the speakers" concept when I auditioned the 802d with the 1095 and than with a Mcintosh power amp. Since my new HT system is my entery purchse to the high end HT, I wanted to start as high as I can afford without going terribly wrong with products matching ( i.e 1095+ 802d).
From the "right match" stand point, which equasion in your opinion yields the best acoustic results : 1095 +804s or 1095 + 803s ? will the better driven 804s result in a better detailed imaging / effortless/open sound than the "weekly" driven 803s with all it's advantages over the 804s?
I know that the best way to judge this is trusting someone's own ears, What is your experience with this ?

Thanks
Eliav

[misterdoggy]

Hi Eliav,

In Amplification IMHO, its not only about output, but also about construction. 802d and a 1095 would be a temporary solution until you upgraded the Amplifier. There are probably others in the club that power the 804S' or N804's with the 1095. Once you step in to the 803S and above IMHO I agree with Jlee that the 1095 becomes your weakest link. With speakers like the 803S they deserve at the very least a 1090 devoted to only the fronts or so many other options like the Parasound line. You can pick up used Parasound Amplifiers for reasonable prices and its top quality.

[Eliav]

hi
Thanks. Well, budget-wise , I think it will be easier for me to begin with the 803s, and later on upgrade my amp.( or add a 2 channel one for the front speakers) rather than to start with the 804s, and then upgrade BOTH speakers and amplifier.
Eliav

[Pieter]

The saner choice.

[misterdoggy]

One step at a time

[Eliav]

Thanks guys, I have another question ;
will bi-amplifying the 803s by the 1095 give me better ACOUSTIC results or jus louder volume ?
Eliav

[Aussie Geoff]

Thanks guys, I have another question ;
will bi-amplifying the 803s by the 1095 give me better ACOUSTIC results or jus louder volume ?
Eliav

A better accoustic - the volume will be identical - as each amp will still only provice 200W in its frequency range - the total volume is limited to 200W -which will still be very loud!

I agree with your 803S choice. I'd start with the 1095 and then later if and when I felt the urge (and had the funds) upgrade the amplifier. This will give your upgraditis two bursts of satisfaction. Besides - my sense is we are starting to see the birth of a new range of affordable digital amplifiers that seem to (for my ears) blow away all but the best of the best traditional amplifiers for not many $ - so your next upgrade after the 1095 may well be digital!

Geoff

[misterdoggy]

Besides - my sense is we are starting to see the birth of a new range of affordable digital amplifiers that seem to (for my ears) blow away all but the best of the best traditional amplifiers for not many $ - so your next upgrade after the 1095 may well be digital!

Geoff

Geoff

Which ones are those ?

I've read a little bit about Spectron and Yamaha and Bel Canto and others, but right now they are still expensive. What have you listened to. If Digital will be taking over, why is the market still so strong on solid state. ? I've also read some articles about Class D (digital) amplification and wonder where a/b stops and d begins.

[Eliav]

Great !
You all really helped making my initial "gut feeling" a final decision..803s it will be.
When you bi-amp the speakers, is there any recommended setting with the processor (rotel 1068) for bi-amp two channel listening ?
( have not yet even opened the rotel boxes, waiting for my speakers.....)
Do I have to order double set of speakers cables ?

Thanks
Eliav

[misterdoggy]

The 1095 has single posts for your speaker cable. If you want to biwire (not biamp) you need to have 2 connects on one side and they go to 4 on the other side. Be sure to remove the connector between the posts of the 803S if they come delivered attached. Which probably is not the case.

[Aussie Geoff]

Geoff

Which ones are those ?

I've read a little bit about Spectron and Yamaha and Bel Canto and others, but right now they are still expensive. What have you listened to. If Digital will be taking over, why is the market still so strong on solid state. ? I've also read some articles about Class D (digital) amplification and wonder where a/b stops and d begins.

Try http://www.nuforce.com/products.htm or
http://www.acoustic-reality.com/ or
www.halcro.com and their new Logic series
even Rotel will very shortly be out with a new range of digital amps...

However I sense the wave is just beginning and will transform amplificaiton as we know it over the next 5 years... People will look at the 100 pound solid state amps in the same way as many of us still look at Valve amplifiers... (controversal I know)

Geoff

[Eliav]

Hi
Thanks for the tips

Eliav

[jlee]

A better accoustic - the volume will be identical - as each amp will still only provice 200W in its frequency range - the total volume is limited to 200W -which will still be very loud!

I agree with your 803S choice. I'd start with the 1095 and then later if and when I felt the urge (and had the funds) upgrade the amplifier. This will give your upgraditis two bursts of satisfaction. Besides - my sense is we are starting to see the birth of a new range of affordable digital amplifiers that seem to (for my ears) blow away all but the best of the best traditional amplifiers for not many $ - so your next upgrade after the 1095 may well be digital!

Geoff

I agree with Geoff... get the 803S... easier to upgrade the amp later. Rotel maintains it's value and that is why it makes great "beginner's hifi" or "entry level high end." You can't lose going with Rotel... to appreciate the really high end stuff, first u must start with the lower end stuff and train your ears... then, and only then, will you be able to fully appreciate the high end stuff and what it takes to make it sound it's best.

That being said, that's probably the only reason to go with the 804S first if your dealer allows a 1 year trade in... that way u get to experience both the 804S and 803S and your ears will get some training.