Limitation of B&W FPM's or upgrade to 805S

[Nolan B]

Wasnt really sure what to tittle this thread, but just a quick question so i understan something.

I currently have B&W FPMs powered by a Rotel RSX 1067 and RDV 1060. I have heard that if I upgraded from rotel to Classe it would be money wasted becuase my speakers can not display the quality of Classe properly.

Now here is my question. The difference in sound quality when playing a DVD A vs a CD is major, so my speakers can abviously sound better or worse depending on the source. Am I to understand this right that a Classe system would make CDs sound better then DVD A on my current setup? I find this hard to believe...and if that is not the case then how is it possible Classe is too good for my speakers?

or here is a anouther way to ask it...

Would something like a B&W 805s with classe make a CD sound better then a DVD A or SACD played on Rotel with My speakers or 600 series?

thx

[Miroku]

Well I am sure there are many answers to this question, but for me I think the absolute most important part of a stereo is the speakers. But beyond that personal rule I also think it's also important that components be at a somewhat similar level of quality. A lot of people will say that a system is only as strong as its weakest link, which I mostly agree with, but I think its better to budget more towards speakers than towards the other components.

I think 805's will sound better than 600's in pretty much any case, unless you paired the 805's with something really inappropriate.

To specifically answer your question in detail I think you need to listen to the different setups and cd/dvd-a sources you mention. You should see if your dealer will let you do some experimenting :T

[jim777]

I don't think anybody made such a test (classé/805 vs rotel/600) but I tried McIntosh/703 vs Rotel/603s3 and the older CM series.

I think that the difference is big enough that the 805's would sound better than the 600 series, even using DVD-A on the Rotel and CD only for the other kit. Rotel doesn't have SACD by the way. And their DVD players are not that great for CD's (compared to their CD-only player). I didn't hear the new $1500 one though.

And your speakers would sound better with better electronics, but for the same amount I would begin with a speaker upgrade. But once you get into the 800 series, you will eventually want to upgrade your electronics too... I think that a well balanced system shouldn't have a $700 CD player with $12k speakers

[kurtholz]

great advice from Jim,

my personal experience was i started with 603's, went to cdm9nt's, then to 803's with 805s's as surround, driven by Rotel,and a Rotel 1060 then switched to Krell, at the Cdm9nt level, the Krell made a huge difference,then added an arcamdv29,( huge improvement) jumping to 803/805 combo took it another level,

it's called upgradeitis, there is no cure, you are beyond helping,i can see the symptoms in your question

:-)

good luck

Kurt

[chinets]

Kurt,
Still braging about those nasty Krell's?? You should be ashamed of yourself when Rotel is the topic here.
Speakers are the heart of all your equipment. Bad Speakers will produce bad sound!! The electronics are secondary unless they cannot drive the speakers IMHO!!!!
Once you have the right speakers for your ears, then electronic upgrading is a personal thing. Some like smooth sounds and others like harsh sounds, and also your taste in music such as Rock Vs. Jazz for example.
Speakers are the your main focus here and one should stick to the type of sound generated by speakers ,because that will be your most noticable difference.
Kurt, E-Mail me you Krell pusher!!!
Chinets

[jim777]

Kurt,
Still braging about those nasty Krell's?? You should be ashamed of yourself when Rotel is the topic here.
Speakers are the heart of all your equipment. Bad Speakers will produce bad sound!! The electronics are secondary unless they cannot drive the speakers IMHO!!!!
Once you have the right speakers for your ears, then electronic upgrading is a personal thing. Some like smooth sounds and others like harsh sounds, and also your taste in music such as Rock Vs. Jazz for example.
Speakers are the your main focus here and one should stick to the type of sound generated by speakers ,because that will be your most noticable difference.
Kurt, E-Mail me you Krell pusher!!!
Chinets

:rofl:

Electronics are secondary??? That's a good one!! Very constructive. What else? I guess the source has really nothing to do with your sound.. I guess I upgraded my CD player for nothing :lol:

Maybe I should have bought 803D's with a RA1062 and an iPod..?

[Aussie Geoff]

Jim777,

I think Chinets is just saying that speakers limit the ultimate quality of what you hear, so if they are a bottleneck, yes you still can get some benefits by upgrading the electronics, but the best bang for the buck is to upgrade the speakers to remove the bottleneck, then focus on the electrnics once you have speakers that will reveal more of the inate quality of the electronics... Which I agree with.

To reverse the analpgy use used, otherwise we would all have Krell Evoltuon Amplifiers and Ayre CD players driving Radio Shack special speakers...

Ultimately this is all about balanced systems and synergies... :banana:

Geoff

[nyny]

Couldn't have agree more with Geoff on this one, cheers~ :T

[chinets]

Ditto Mr. Aussie Geoff !!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you are the only one that understood me!!!!! You hit in on the nail!!
Bravo!!!!!!!!! I liked the way you put it!!!!! You use your words wisely and I couldn't agree with you more.
Thanks pal have a good day,
CHEERS!!!!!!
Chinets

[jim777]

Well maybe I gave too much attention to the "electronics are secondary" comment...

BTW, do some people like harsh sounds??

No offence..

[miner]

Couldn't have agree more with Geoff on this one, cheers~ :T

Start 'upstream', upgrade 'downstream'.

[chinets]

Jim777,
Harsh, bright,boomy, In your face Music are some characteristics that some people enjoy especially with Rock Music or HT. Not my taste, but some people love it. I love that in HT, but not Music. Everyone has there own taste so you can't preach your own music and taste on someone else or force him to like what you like pal.
We call that communism. We have free speech here and we all have very different tastes In Music and equipment. Enjoy your own style and stop being so pushy with your own taste that we all have to swallow here.
Why are you always on the offensive...learn to relax and mellow down. Put on some music pal ,and if you have nothing good to say, then just don't say it!! My 2 cents worth!!!!

[jim777]

Well sorry chinets if I offenced you. I just couldn't understand some of your comments. I really thought that you were saying that electronics are of 0% importance. Sorry for that, now that you put it another way, I understand your point. Pure misunderstanding. BTW I'm relax, I'm not shouting out names or stuff (and I'm not for communism). I'm not forcing anyone either.

I just don't think that someone would use the word harsh to describe his favorite system, although it would sound harsh to you and me. Punchy and bright? Yes I agree that some want it that way. Some love their yamaha with room correction and stuff even if they have enough money to buy your dream system a few times. I don't force him to like my stuff, I might just invite him though, in case he just doesn't know what he is missing :P

Hope you can take my .02 for what it is too

[chinets]

Jimm777,
I appreciate your comments. Because we are so many foreigners on this forum, maybe we can't explain ourselves quite the way you or others would do ,because we don't have the right words to describe something.
Thanks for your understanding ,and maybe my misunderstanding of you too!!!!
I got yor 200 cents worth and I am happy with your kind and understanding comments.
I am glad that you understood me now.
Enjoy the Music,
Have a wonderful day Mon amie,
Chinets

[miner]

Yes, us 'colonists' would take a different meaning of 'enjoying a fag' than our brothers across the pond.

[jim777]

Yes, us 'colonists' would take a different meaning of 'enjoying a fag' than our brothers across the pond.

:rofl:


Well I'm happy that this issue is resolved. Everyone is happy. :T

So what should the guy do with his FPM's already?? :lol:

[Nolan B]

:rofl:


Well I'm happy that this issue is resolved. Everyone is happy. :T

So what should the guy do with his FPM's already?? :lol:

LOL...i was thinking the same thing.

My FPMs with PV1 sound amazing powered by rotel a rotel 1067. I would really rather not have to change the speakers in order to get a good upgrade becuase for reasons of space and looks they are perfect.

Obviously depending on what the source is the speakers sound different...sometimes very good. If I could get a Processor and Power amp that could make CDs sound like DVD A on my current set up I probably make the upgrade.

So wld something like Classe make CDs sound as good as HiRes audio on my current setup?

[jim777]

So wld something like Classe make CDs sound as good as HiRes audio on my current setup?

I have reason to believe so, because with my new McIntosh MCD201 SACD/CD player, well-mastered CD's sound almost as good as SACD's. I'm not sure that I could always tell which one is which.

You'll have to be able to try one at home to be sure though. Most dealers will let you borrow a player if you leave them a deposit. It's worth the try

[RebelMan]

So wld something like Classe make CDs sound as good as HiRes audio on my current setup?

Absolutely! Actually MUCH better than.

I currently own an RSX-1056 which is acoustically identical to the RSX-1067. I am also the proud owner of a new Classe' system that I have just started to break in. I will eventually post a compete review of my equipment only upgrade experience. For now I can tell you, in short, that CD's played on Classe' Delta series gear can be, and has been for me, a substantial improvement over DVD-A's, and the like, played through any of Rotel's pre-amplifier processors.

[Nolan B]

Absolutely! Actually MUCH better than.

I currently own an RSX-1056 which is acoustically identical to the RSX-1067. I am also the proud owner of a new Classe' system that I have just started to break in. I will eventually post a compete review of my equipment only upgrade experience. For now I can tell you, in short, that CD's played on Classe' Delta series gear can be, and has been for me, a substantial improvement over DVD-A's, and the like, played through any of Rotel's pre-amplifier processors.

thanks thats some fedback I can really use. What speakers did you use? Did you use the same ones for the rotel as you now have for Classe?

Also on a side note what DVD A player were you using?

[RebelMan]

I have the 803S's and the RDV-1050. Only the equipment has changed the same speakers were used in both cases. I am utilizing Fourplay's Fourplay on CD and DVD-A to make comparisons with.

The FPM's, as with virtually all of B&W's loudspeaker trimlines, inherited many of the technologies bore from the original Nautilus reference loudspeaker. The improvements I have found with my 803S's should scale in a similar way with your FPM's.

[Gump]

Absolutely! Actually MUCH better than.

I currently own an RSX-1056 which is acoustically identical to the RSX-1067. I am also the proud owner of a new Classe' system that I have just started to break in. I will eventually post a compete review of my equipment only upgrade experience. For now I can tell you, in short, that CD's played on Classe' Delta series gear can be, and has been for me, a substantial improvement over DVD-A's, and the like, played through any of Rotel's pre-amplifier processors.

Congratulations on the new Classe gear, RebelMan! Very exciting...I'm looking forward to your review. :T