Impact of Electrical Source on B&W / Classe Peformance?

[moonlightdrive21]

Hey fellas. I have the 802D's with a 200w Classe amp.

I have a dedicated outlet that goes from the wall outlet straight to the electrical box in my garage. Just my power amp is plugged into this wall outlet.

However, sometimes when I listen to music, I get fuller sound with noteably better bass. Sometime it's less with the same CD's. I can't seem to figure out how the circumstances are different that are causing the differences in sound performance.

Is there something I can do with my electrical line to get better sound out of my stereo? Is there something I can have my electrician do?

Thanks!
Dave

[Karma]

HI moon,
Your post worries me. If the dedicated line is working properly it would not have any trouble powering a 200W amp. If the trouble is with the service, you may have a serious and dangerous problem. HAVE IT CHECKED OUT IMMEDIATELY BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. YOU COULD BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN. DO NOT USE IT UNTIL THE TESTS ARE DONE. ARE YOU CLEAR ON THIS???

I am a trained Electrical Safety Officer at work with 40 years of experience. This is how I would advise my clients. DO IT, NOW!!!!

If you are still having problems after your service is tested, AND YOUR HOUSE IS STILL STANDING, come back and maybe the forum can help.

Sparky

[aphexist]

YOUR POST WORRIES ME TOO! SHIP YOUR 802Ds TO ME! I WILL TEST THEM FOR A FEW MONTHS AND GIVE THEM BACK, I PROMISE!

[Karma]

HI aphexist,
Gee, I didn't think of that. I'm now second in line. Isn't it nice to have a concerned community so willing to help our fellow members?

Sparky

[moonlightdrive21]

HI moon,
Your post worries me. If the dedicated line is working properly it would not have any trouble powering a 200W amp. If the trouble is with the service, you may have a serious and dangerous problem. HAVE IT CHECKED OUT IMMEDIATELY BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. YOU COULD BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN. DO NOT USE IT UNTIL THE TESTS ARE DONE. ARE YOU CLEAR ON THIS???

Thanks for the advice. But I wanted to mention that there is not a very noticeable difference/fluctuation in bass performance, but one that is noticebale to an audiophile's discerning ear. With that said, do you still think this is likely an electrical issue and a dangerous situation?

I was only wondering if it is an electrical problem, which may have nothing to do with it.

Thanks,
Dave

[dyazdani]

I've noticed subtle differences under varying conditions in several systems. I think it has to do with loading/noise on the grid. This can be time of day related (on-peak, off-peak) or due to usage in your own home.

I've absolutely noticed a "decrease" in performance while running kitchen appliances (motorized) - mixers, blenders, food processors, etc.

Have you kicked around any power filtering ideas?

BTW- if the line wasn't installed by a licensed electrician, I would also get it checked at once for safety.

[Karma]

HI Dave,
There is no justification for me or anyone else read between the lines. Too much is at stake. Of course it could be something else. But based upon the content of your post, a dire warning is justified. And now you are trying to wiggle out. Do so at your own risk. You must absolutely certain of the viability of the new service. Period.

If you were a good friend, I would inform you that you are being stupid, knowing my friend would excuse such harsh language with the understanding that it is tough love.

Since you are so willing to ignore good advice, I see no reason to offer more.

Sparky

[Karma]

HI Dave,
I'm going to relent a little. You are not giving me enough information. If you had seen what I have seen over the years you, I hope, would have been just a harsh. I have seen some unbelievably stupid things people have done with electrical wiring. My original hi fi repair shop, in a rented space, burned to the ground a year after I vacated. It was an electrical fire. One of the reasons I left was because of the very poor electrical wiring. And that work was done professionally or so I was told. I never really believed it.

For example, I don't know if you installed the new service. Or, was it installed by a licensed electrician ? Or some willing relative? Was it installed according to code? Were the proper wire types and gages used. What about the breaker. How were the wires run? We don't know. Any of these things could cause a short or overheating. Boom, there goes the house.

If you are convinced, and I'm not at all sure you are qualified to make that call, the service is properly installed by someone who knows what they are doing, then it's time to look elsewhere. There can be other causes but usually they are a result of the service being shared by another high current user. Since yours is not shared it is very suspicious.

Also, you did not indicate if you had noticed the same sonic variations before the new service was installed. Or, if you go back to your former AC connections, do you hear the same problems. You flat need to be more descriptive with us and yourself. Please give us some help.

Good Luck. Keep a water hose handy (actually, don't use water on an electrical fire; get a properly rated fire extinguisher).

Sparky

[moonlightdrive21]

Thanks guys. I will have an electrician check it out to be safe. The line, like all other lines in my house, was installed by licensed electricians while my house was being built 3 years ago. It did pass code.

As far as filtering goes, I originally had my power amp hooked up to a panamax line conditioner/protector, but was told that plugging the amp directly to an outlet instead will result in the best audio performance. What kind of filters are you referring to?

If I were to have a new outlet added for stereo equipment, is there any general advice anyone can give on what to ask the electrician to do/purchase to allow for optimal audio performance?

Thanks,
Dave

[PewterTA]

Are you sure it's not your ears???

I know on different days at different times after I've done different things, my speakers sound very different. IE...if I listen to the radio louder than normal on the way home (not ear bleeding loud, just louder) than I notice less bass from my speakers.

If I'm in the room with no noise for a while (like if I'm reading something) and then turn it on and listen, it sound sooo much louder and fuller and the highs and lows are much more powerful when at the same volume level....

Maybe that's what's going on, that or there are so major flucuations coming from your power company...that can also do it. You would need to buy some equipment to correct that then. Something that takes the power and makes sure it's constant going to your amp.

[moonlightdrive21]

Are you sure it's not your ears???

It's possible. I do often have listening sessions in my car or home and sometimes have loud parties, and then go to use my main system. I don't think this is the heart of the problem, but I would not rule it out. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks,
Dave

[Karma]

HI Dave,
Thanks for making me feel a LOT better. Having it checked is a good move. Try to get the electrician to check it at the outlet under load. This is to see if there are any hidden bad connections (high resistance). For any given load there will be a voltage drop. The electrician has the tables to to determine if the drop is within limits for the size wire that is used. Also have him check the green ground connection (known as the equipment ground). You will sleep better, I think.

As for plugging your amp directly into the wall, you should. Very few conditioners and filters can supply enough current at acceptable voltages for a 200W amp. All power amps should plugged directly even those in a multichannel receiver. Everything else in you system should be OK on a filter. They might (the operative word) even help. Personally, the only improvement I have ever seen is using a very high current isolation transformer. Even they are chancy. The power where I live is relatively clean. That's probably why I not seen improvements.

Sparky

[Karma]

HI Dave,
Pewter makes an excellent point. I have found that my ears do sort of fatigue during a car trip. I used to go into Santa Fe for listening and equipment review sessions with my good friend and former Stereophile reviewer Guy Lemcoe (I love to drop names :P ). I discovered that it took about an hour before my ears worked well enough for critical listening. Everything just kind of sounded the same. Some might claim my ears never recovered. Seriously, I took to wearing ear plugs which made a huge difference. The trip was only about 35 minutes in a fairly quiet car.

Even now, years later, I still wear ear plugs even for short trips. It is a bit antisocial though. When I go to Albuquerque where my dealer is located it is about a 2 hour trip. I always wear ear plugs because I know I will be doing critical listening. They definetely work. I need all the help I can get.

Sparky

[dyazdani]

HI Dave,
As for plugging your amp directly into the wall, you should. Very few conditioners and filters can supply enough current at acceptable voltages for a 200W amp.
Sparky

A very true statement. I was thinking specifically of something like an Ultimate Outlet from PS Audio. They have a high current model for larger power amps - it runs $399 retail. My dad has one with (formerly) a Levinson 333 and now a Pass X250. The other "few" as Karma suggested are usually quite expensive.

I have my amps plugged directly into the wall, but have a Monster 5000 filter for the rest. My system is on a dedicated breaker as well.

[jim777]

Your amp and equipment should all be on the same power strip in the electrical box.

The way it works, is that you have two "live" wires for 240V appliances, and 120V is made with one "live" and neutral. All your "music" should be on the same "live"; even best if it isn't the same "live" as your kitchen and motors (like air exchangers).

But most of what you hear is probably just your ears... you would need a SPL meter and a test-tones cd to be 100% sure that volume is really different...

[moonlightdrive21]

Thanks all !!

[misterdoggy]

YOUR POST WORRIES ME TOO! SHIP YOUR 802Ds TO ME! I WILL TEST THEM FOR A FEW MONTHS AND GIVE THEM BACK, I PROMISE!

Hey Aphexist You are a funny guy !! :T

[Cornchips]

Certified Electrician Coming Next Tuesday.....

Got a $400 quote for a new dedicated (grounded) outlet and for adding a ground wire to the exisitng outlet.

Don't freak pn the price -- we're talking 1920's plaster and lathe walls with random diagonal solid harwood fire stops.

Is there anything I should ask for (or demand)? Anything I should pre-purchase before Tuesday?

Please denote comments/suggestions as Dedicated Outlet (DO)
or Rest of System (ROS) outlet.

Thanks
--ksr

[Kal Rubinson]

Before investing more money, why not try to get measurements of the line over different times/conditions to see IF it is at fault.

Kal

[Eliav]

HI Dave,
Thanks for making me feel a LOT better. Having it checked is a good move. Try to get the electrician to check it at the outlet under load. This is to see if there are any hidden bad connections (high resistance). For any given load there will be a voltage drop. The electrician has the tables to to determine if the drop is within limits for the size wire that is used. Also have him check the green ground connection (known as the equipment ground). You will sleep better, I think.

As for plugging your amp directly into the wall, you should. Very few conditioners and filters can supply enough current at acceptable voltages for a 200W amp. All power amps should plugged directly even those in a multichannel receiver. Everything else in you system should be OK on a filter. They might (the operative word) even help. Personally, the only improvement I have ever seen is using a very high current isolation transformer. Even they are chancy. The power where I live is relatively clean. That's probably why I not seen improvements.

Sparky

Hey Sparky
I have my Classe CAM400 monoblocks plugged in to the Monster 5100II power conditioner, it has a designated outlet for 'high current-power amp." do you think I'd better plug it to the wall outlet ? what about surge protection ?
Thanks
eliav