Meridian and Naim Amp's with 802 or 803D's

[DavidB]

Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my first post. Does anyone hear have any experience of these brands with B&W speakers. I have a demo at a dealer tomorrow and they've suggested these amp's, I think mainly because they are also recommending NAIM and Meridian surround processors. Only one thing to do, go along and have a listen!

I want to try and line up a demo with the Clasee 5200 to see how that compares.

[JKalman]

I would ask the dealer what kinds of upgrade policies the companies have, i.e. - when a new piece comes out, can you send the old one back in and for a nominal fee, perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 the price have the hardware updated? For me that is a huge selling point since hardware changes can make a piece of equipment obsolete.

This is why I bought a Bryston Peamp/Processor and amplifier. They just updated the SP1.7 quite significantly, and for almost 1/5 the price of the unit new I will be able to send the piece in and have it updated so it has the same hardware as the new unit inside.

I'll see if I can find out Naim's policy. I think from what I have heard about Meridian's policy is that it is not very good at all. In today's audio market I think this is inexcusable and company's who take this attitude towards their customers don't deserve a loyal fan base let alone to sell any of their equipment at all. Meridian might have changed its policy recently so I am not certain that this is still true, but I have read posts about people buying their top of the line pieces only to find a new top of the line piece released a few weeks later. According to the posters, Meridian was completely unsympathetic to the customers who got screwed.

[JKalman]

I called the Naim distributor in the USA, and it sounds like they do have mail back upgrades through your local dealer, i.e. - you give your model to the dealer and they send it in to Naim for hardware upgrades at a smaller price than buying a new piece. I am not 100% certain as we were having trouble communicating. From looking at the Naim website it looks like they are very into compartmentalizing the circuit boards in their equipment which would seem to support ease of upgrade-ability. I've also heard great things about Naim and their philosophy of separating internal parts of a unit to protect them from interfering with each other.

Of course as an owner of Bryston I recommend you try them out also, no other company I know of has a 20 year transferable warranty.

[ZX10 Guy]

Well, I was the one who posted up something about Meridian recently. I own their now discontinued 568.2MM processor. The people who were upset were the ones that bought the 568s new a few months before the G series came out. Meridian didn't offer a trade up policy for these recently purchased processors and the dealers didn't inform or honestly didn't know that the new G series were coming out so soon. I waited till after the G series came out and bought my dealer demos at a substantial discount. So I made out.

But with all that said. Meridian does support their products and do have upgrade policies for revisions within the same product family. The venerable 565 pre/pro had an upgrade kit when there were revisions introduced in the later production models for older 565s. The same occurred with the 568. Meridian came out with a .2 upgraded version which had better DSP engines in it. Older 568 "v1" processors could be upgraded by sending the unit back to Meridian. The MM card, which provided MHR Smartlink capability, could also be added to both the 568 "v1" processors that I think had the .2 upgrade done to it and the native 568.2 processors. Even though the 568 was discontinued, Meridian still released the 2.5 beta firmware a few months after the G series hit the market for the 568 pre/pros. The 2.5 beta firmware fixed some bugs and added Dolby PLIIx.

Their flagship 800 series pre/pro is probably the most expandible pre/pro out there. The entire pre/pro is designed around a card bus chassis setup. Want to add SACD capability? Buy the appropriate card to plug in. Meridian has been committed in their support of the 800 series. If you have the money (a base unit costs around $14k), the 800 series pre/pro is hard to beat.

[JKalman]

There you have it. Thanks ZX10 Guy.

[DavidB]

Well it was an interesting and confusing demo.

I started out listening to the 803D's in stereo firstly with the Meridian G68(pre amp/processor),G98(DVD/CD) and G55 (2x200w Power Amp), whilst I thought the sound was good I thought the mid range in particular lacked clarity. Moving on to the equivalent Naim equipment it sounded more musical,tighter and with better bass.

We then switched to the 802D's again listening just to music. Firstly with the Meridian, great sound but it sounded like the speakers were capable of so much more. Moved back to the Naim system and it was a revelation, a truely wonderful listening experience. Almost captivating.

I then moved on to listening to the systems in Home Cinema 5.1 format and the roles were almost exactly reversed. The Naim sounded dull and lacking clarity, the Meridian had you on the edge of your seat with incredible detail and I swear it almost made the picture look better even though it was the same DVD player!

So my quandry is which system to buy. I think the answer is to go with the Meridain G68 processor but maybe try a different amp to get a better sound when playing music, if it's as good as the Naim that would be fantastic. Sadly the Naim really fell down for Home Cinema use.

I'd love to hear from anyone that has experience with the 802D's and the Meridian processor. The dealer is going to come back to me with some suggestions...maybe Classe or Bryston?

[Rob72]

Hi DavidB,

I have the same interests as you when it comes to the Meridian gear. I placed an order for 802D's and in the future will upgrade my amp and pre amp. Meridian as Classe are on the list.

My limited experience with Meridian is that they are really known for their DVD/Processor's and not so much for their amps. Whenever I have asked about their amps most people have steered me to look at something else. I was curious if anyone on the board who owns the Meridian G68/G98 combo has combined it with a different amp.

Having said this I auditioned the G68/G98 on movies and it was absolutely amazing! I did not get a chance to listen to music on it though. Try the Meridian g98/g68 combo with a different amp when you audition the Classe and Bryston gear.

I'd be really curious how they would sound.

Good Luck

[Rob72]

Hi David,

Do post your experience with the Classe 5200 as this is another amp I am really interested in.

I have not seen one up close but it must be a monster in size that is.

[DavidB]

My dealer is going to call me on Monday so I'll let you kno what they recommend. I have seen a Classe 2200 which is the same size as the 5200 and it's huge! It was powering a pair of 800D's and even at the relatively low volumes I heard it at sounded fantastic.

[JKalman]

Of course as an owner of Bryston I recommend you try them out also, no other company I know of has a 20 year transferable warranty.

I should be adding the Ayre C-5xe to my setup the middle of next week some time, since my main dealer said that the President of B&W told him there would be no 805D speakers anytime in the next year. I guess I won't have a surround setup for a long time to come, perhaps when I can get a used pair of 803Ds down the road. I can't say I'm upset, since the C-5xe should take care of all my woes. :W

Oh, BTW, I still recommend you demo the Bryston gear. 20 year transferable warranty, upgrades to new hardware at a small fraction of the original cost, and transparency, etc. Don't take my word on this, but for God's sake, find out for yourself.

[DavidB]

My dealer has recommended a a power amp by Dynavector, reckons it's comparable to the Naim Nap 500 (a mere £12,000!) and is a relative bargain at £4,500. He doesn't think the Classe amp is the way to go given how much I like the Naim sound, doesn't think it's as musical.

Anyone have any experience of Dynavector?

[misterdoggy]

I should be adding the Ayre C-5xe to my setup the middle of next week some time, I can't say I'm upset, since the C-5xe should take care of all my woes. :W

JKalman,

I've got the Ayre D1-Xe which is their top of the line DVD/CD player and its incredible. You're not gonna believe the sounds. There will be detail in CD's you thought you knew, but never heard before.

[JKalman]

JKalman,

I've got the Ayre D1-Xe which is their top of the line DVD/CD player and its incredible. You're not gonna believe the sounds. There will be detail in CD's you thought you knew, but never heard before.

misterdoggy, I'm probably not getting the Ayre C-5xe for a few months now again. I've just decided to trade in my 802D for an 800D and i will need the 6000 I was going to spend on the Ayre C-5xe for that instead, if the dealer decides to do it. You can be sure I will be in the market for that ayre C-5xe again in 3-5 months though when I save up another 6k.

[Jmac]

Greetings

I am somewhat of a 'lurker' here, as I have previously owned B&W speakers; I am a great fan of them and am quite certain that for my next 'move' along the road of HiFi/HT B&W speakers will again be my personal No 1 choice.

As I speak, I own a full Naim 2 channel system, and I guess by the pricing you mention that you reside in the UK; I'm in Australia.

Having heard all that Naim have to offer, and being familiar with the B&W line up as far as the 801's (albeit I have not yet heard the new diamond tweeter models) I would opinion that you might get away with Naim amps for say, 804s, or 803s, but really I doubt that even an NAP500 would drive an 802 to anything like it's ultimate capabilities. As an example I have heard an NAP500 driving Wilson Benesch, and found the results, whilst good, comparitively dissapointing.

The dynamics of the Naim amps (a principle strength) were somewhat subdued by the Wilson Benesch speakers, and conversly the imaging strenghts of the Wilsons were compromised by the Naim amps, which are comparitively weak in that aspect of performance. The most disapointing aspect was simply that the NAP500 didn't have enough power to drive the speakers to realistic levels in a very large room; audible distortion verging on clipping was easily heard; not what one wants or expects for an amp that retails at AU$40,000.00 - yes, you read right - Naims prices are horrendous here.

Having at first run my Naim amps with B&W speakers, I found similar results, which is why I changed to Naim speakers. Naim is very much a complimentary system, and whilst mixing and matching can work, sticking with Naim throughout seems to bring the best overall results.

You also don't mention your listening tastes, as with Naim in particular, it is a shall we say acquired taste in sound, that very much favours rock, pop, etc. If you favour classical, I'd say you could do better elsewhere.

I would suggest Bryston also, or Classe. Bear in mind that B&W own Classe, and use the amps for voicing the speakers etc, so a match is almost guarranted. Another option would be Rotel; especially the new 1077 digital amp, which from reviews, and from what I have heard of digital amps is a cracker to say the least.

In addition to my Naim system, I also have an Sony TADA9000ES amp, purhased primarily for HT as an 'add on' to the Naim, but which I have since found comfortably outperforms my Naim 2 channel system for 2 channel music listening, plus of course has 7 channels of amplification, and state of the art HT/multichannel SS decoding.

I fully intend adding B&W speakers to this to form a new 'main' system, to combine 2 channel and multi-channel usuage. I am reliably informed Sony used B&W 800 series speakers in the voicing of this amp, and whether it be the Sony, or the Rotel, I am hugely impressed by digital amps in general, and they have no problems driving the likes of 800 series B&W speakers, so perhaps another option to consider.

Unless you like purely rock music, and are not that interested in HT, or multichannel SS, I could not speaking as an owner, recommend Naim amps for B&W speakers IMHO.

Hope this helps

Best Regards

John.. 8)

[neil w]

david
a few of recent demonstrations of the cds555 from naim in dealers were done with naim amps and 800 or 802 b&w
the majority of people ther said the sound was very good indeed

btw i have a nap500 and nap300 driving n802 fronts and rears very satisfactory

neil

[DavidB]

Neil and John. Thanks very much for your input.

I have to say I thought the Naim system I heard was excellent for music but lacking for HTin comparison to the Meridian. The Naim HT processor just doesn't seem up to the job which is forcing me to look at the Meridian processor coupled with another manufacturers Amps. The Meridian processor is reputed to be one of the best.
Naim apparently don't mix well with Meridian so it seem slike the test will be between Classe,Bryston and this Dynavector Amp coupled to the Meridain processor. I will also be able to hear a Naim system in parallel for comparison. The fact that the dealer doesn't normally run Dynavector but is going to the trouble of getting it especially for me to demo it suggests to me that they know what they're talking about...at least I hope so!

[Jmac]

David;

I am lead to believe that the Dynavector amps are very good indeed; made here in Australia I am told - I've not personally heard one, as apparently the majority of their market is export focused. However at pinkfishmedia dot com, you will find a number of members with dynavector amplification who could tell you far more about it than I. Also there are many Naim owners there as well.

Be advised that Naim is a very contentious brand, with both admirers and outright haters - either way it is a passionate attachment or a disease, depending which side of the fence your'e coming from.

I take note that NeilW reports successful results with his Naim amps, & B&W combination. However, with regards to the referenced thread re the new CD player auditioned with B&W 800 speakers, it also should be noted, having read the relevant thread myself, that there were seemingly as many dissenters as those in agreement re the B&W/Naim match. Unfortunately, some Naim owners will not have a bar of anything that doesn't have a Naim badge on it, which is sad IMHO. At the end of the day, it comes down to your ears, as they are really the only ones that matter!

Personally I think you're very much on the right track with a Meridian processor, and Classe, Bryston amps etc. Only my humble opinion mind, but it'd be the route I'd be following with such a superb pair of speakers.

But then, I'm a little biased, as 800 series B&W speakers would be one of my dream/ultimate speakers, and I would be after the very best amplification etc I could get for them.

I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear how you get on..

All the best

John..

[DavidB]

Hi John,

Thanks for your feedback. I had a look at that other site but I couldn't find a Forum? Will be at least two or three weeks before I get to run another demo.

Cheers
David

[DavidB]

Forget that just found that it's a "net" URL.