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HI All,
Now that subwoofers can be found in many sound systems, I am curious if any of you use two. Please add your observations about dual subs to this thread.
Let me offer some background. My first system with subs was in 1976. This was a system based upon the Dahlquest DQ-10 main speakers. These were revolutionary speakers that introduced the average audiophile to the importance of imaging and sound staging. Dahlquest realized that the DQ-10's had inadequate bass so they introduced the DW-1 subwoofer along with a separate active crossover. I first bought one DW-1, then a second. Of course this was a bi-amplified setup. All of my subsequent systems have been biamped with dual subs. It is the way to go, IMO.
A few years later I graduated to the Acoustec Model 2 electrostatics, which had no real bass, and successfully integrated the DW-1's into that system. The DW-1 had no bad habits which made it very easy to integrate their sound with the main speakers seamlessly. Unfortunately, they were not bass monsters either only going down to about 25 Hz.
Still later, having fallen in love with panel speakers, I used the DW-1's with a pair of Apogee Calipers. Again, the DW-1's worked very well with the Calipers which had a reputation of being hard to add subwoofers to.
Moving forward to about 1995, I now had Martin Logan CLSIIA electrostatic mains. I was still using the (edit: meant DW-1's rather than DQ-1's'; sorry if I confused anyone). Then the now defunct Kinnergetics Inc. introduced the SW-800 sub which was specifically designed to integrate both physically and sonically with the CLSIIA's. I bought but not without some hesitation. They were expensive, required biamping, were only available in pairs, I had never heard them, and they were stunningly beautiful in Rosewood. Stererophile magazine rated the CLSIIA/SW800 combo as Class A speakers. That was good enough for me. The SW-800 are bass monsters. I still have them along with the Martin Logan's in my main listening room. They go down to an honest 16 Hz with power and authority and integrate with the mains perfectly. They achieve the goal of not calling attention to themselves. They just make great bass when called upon to do so. I also have 400 Watts per speaker, a Mark Levinson Model 23 power amp, driving them.
Recently I have been putting together my HT system in my bedroom which is where I watch most of my TV. Space is an issue. The room is 15 X 12 X 8 and not a lot free wall space. I had to be space frugal. Having always admired B&W's sound, I bought 805S's along with the dedicated stands + a HTM4S for my main speakers. Then came a single ASW800 sub. For the first time ever, I had only one sub. I really disliked the single sub setup. It was very obvious to my dual sub conditioned ears that two were needed. Unfortunately, the ASW800 is discontinued. But I got lucky and found an absolutely pristine used one in the right color on ebay. I bought it immediately. I hooked it up last night. Yes!!!
Life is good again. With two subs my initial objections vanished. What were the improvements you ask? First, the headroom has improved by a factor of two. The bass sounds easier, less stressed when pushed hard. On paper the frequency response has not changed. But subjectively, the system seems to go lower. I think this is because the dual subs are exciting room resonances from two separate locations. Response is probably not better but the overall room response is obviously smoother with much less boom.
Many folks think there is no directional information in low bass. Sometimes that is true because some recordings are mastered with summed low bass. In cases where there is true stereo information, bass does image in a subtle way. This is demonstrated by the way bass adds to the sound staging of the recording. You can tell where the recording venues walls are by bass arrival times. This also affects the perception of venue size. These things are subtle but important. Of couse, with movies and DD this is not a factor becase of the single LF Effects channel. But music is my top priority.
Last, my single sub, not being able to be placed in the center but to the side, distorted the bass imaging at the crossover frequency. This drives me nuts because it causes the sub to call attention to itself. I could not get used to it. With two subs I now have a perfectly symmetrical placement with each located behind each 805S. The overall imaging and integration of the subs with the 805S’s is much better and almost seamless. More level and filter tweeking should produce a seamless system.
The bottom line is this is turning into a fabulous sounding little system. I'm very happy. It sounds much bigger than its physical size would suggest.
Sparky
Now that subwoofers can be found in many sound systems, I am curious if any of you use two. Please add your observations about dual subs to this thread.
Let me offer some background. My first system with subs was in 1976. This was a system based upon the Dahlquest DQ-10 main speakers. These were revolutionary speakers that introduced the average audiophile to the importance of imaging and sound staging. Dahlquest realized that the DQ-10's had inadequate bass so they introduced the DW-1 subwoofer along with a separate active crossover. I first bought one DW-1, then a second. Of course this was a bi-amplified setup. All of my subsequent systems have been biamped with dual subs. It is the way to go, IMO.
A few years later I graduated to the Acoustec Model 2 electrostatics, which had no real bass, and successfully integrated the DW-1's into that system. The DW-1 had no bad habits which made it very easy to integrate their sound with the main speakers seamlessly. Unfortunately, they were not bass monsters either only going down to about 25 Hz.
Still later, having fallen in love with panel speakers, I used the DW-1's with a pair of Apogee Calipers. Again, the DW-1's worked very well with the Calipers which had a reputation of being hard to add subwoofers to.
Moving forward to about 1995, I now had Martin Logan CLSIIA electrostatic mains. I was still using the (edit: meant DW-1's rather than DQ-1's'; sorry if I confused anyone). Then the now defunct Kinnergetics Inc. introduced the SW-800 sub which was specifically designed to integrate both physically and sonically with the CLSIIA's. I bought but not without some hesitation. They were expensive, required biamping, were only available in pairs, I had never heard them, and they were stunningly beautiful in Rosewood. Stererophile magazine rated the CLSIIA/SW800 combo as Class A speakers. That was good enough for me. The SW-800 are bass monsters. I still have them along with the Martin Logan's in my main listening room. They go down to an honest 16 Hz with power and authority and integrate with the mains perfectly. They achieve the goal of not calling attention to themselves. They just make great bass when called upon to do so. I also have 400 Watts per speaker, a Mark Levinson Model 23 power amp, driving them.
Recently I have been putting together my HT system in my bedroom which is where I watch most of my TV. Space is an issue. The room is 15 X 12 X 8 and not a lot free wall space. I had to be space frugal. Having always admired B&W's sound, I bought 805S's along with the dedicated stands + a HTM4S for my main speakers. Then came a single ASW800 sub. For the first time ever, I had only one sub. I really disliked the single sub setup. It was very obvious to my dual sub conditioned ears that two were needed. Unfortunately, the ASW800 is discontinued. But I got lucky and found an absolutely pristine used one in the right color on ebay. I bought it immediately. I hooked it up last night. Yes!!!
Life is good again. With two subs my initial objections vanished. What were the improvements you ask? First, the headroom has improved by a factor of two. The bass sounds easier, less stressed when pushed hard. On paper the frequency response has not changed. But subjectively, the system seems to go lower. I think this is because the dual subs are exciting room resonances from two separate locations. Response is probably not better but the overall room response is obviously smoother with much less boom.
Many folks think there is no directional information in low bass. Sometimes that is true because some recordings are mastered with summed low bass. In cases where there is true stereo information, bass does image in a subtle way. This is demonstrated by the way bass adds to the sound staging of the recording. You can tell where the recording venues walls are by bass arrival times. This also affects the perception of venue size. These things are subtle but important. Of couse, with movies and DD this is not a factor becase of the single LF Effects channel. But music is my top priority.
Last, my single sub, not being able to be placed in the center but to the side, distorted the bass imaging at the crossover frequency. This drives me nuts because it causes the sub to call attention to itself. I could not get used to it. With two subs I now have a perfectly symmetrical placement with each located behind each 805S. The overall imaging and integration of the subs with the 805S’s is much better and almost seamless. More level and filter tweeking should produce a seamless system.
The bottom line is this is turning into a fabulous sounding little system. I'm very happy. It sounds much bigger than its physical size would suggest.
Sparky
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