XT4s in DA House

[DrJRapp]

Well I guess I finally can call myself an official member here. I unpacked my new XT4s this afternoon. I purchased them for my study library. All the new built in furniture made it impossible to fit my beloved Klipsch Chorus II in the room so it was time for something that could make a substantial audio presence without having huge physical dimensions. There are a lot of possibilities out there, but I chose the XT4 for several reasons. One of the most important was that I am contemplating a move to 802Ds from my Klipsch RF7. The sound character of B&W speakers is so so different from Klipsch that I needed to be sure I can live with the differences before plinking down about 20 grand for a surround setup featuring 802Ds.

Unfortunatly, my study libray is still about two weeks from being complete construction wise, due mostly to hurricane Wilma. So, it was either leave the XT4s in their boxes in the garage, or set them up in the family room/theater. Being the respectable audioholic that I am, which do you think I chose???...lol

Although the XT4 are not really designed for big rooms (my FR is in excess of 7K cubic ft), they are doing a credible job of filling the room with quality sound. I won't comment any further till they can get some mileage and loosten up a bit.

[RobP]

Congrats Jerry! I see that you finally gave in and came over to the dark side! :B I seen those at my dealer and really liked the looks of them, very streamline.

[GregLett]

congrats Jerry :T I'll wait to hear more. Fifteen days to go to order mine

[RebelMan]

Same here SG, I took a quick look just yesterday. No time to hear them though but the build quality is very impressive.

Welcome to DA Club Jerry! :T LOL

[Lestat]

Congrats. I'm ordering a pair today, actually. I should have them sometime next week, and can then post some more impressions.
My room is much smaller, about 3x5m or so, so they should do a great job of filling it.

L.

[csuzor]

Good choice Jerry, the aluminium construction should protect them from the next hurricane, and prevent water damaging them during the next flooding.

I see that you are true to your opinions, and bought it without critically listening or comparing to other models or asking for other's reviews, because room acoustics would have made them sound better or worse elsewhere. How should we interpret your upcoming comments on them? What is the acoustic layout and room treatment of your listening environment?

Don't get me wrong, your opinions are wanted and awaited, but I'm just not sure what you expect us to do with them.

[bigburner]

Don't get me wrong, your opinions are wanted and awaited, but I'm just not sure what you expect us to do with them.

Enjoy them. They're part of the rich pageant of HTG life.

[DrJRapp]

Good choice Jerry, the aluminium construction should protect them from the next hurricane, and prevent water damaging them during the next flooding..

I never thought of that....good point... :T ...LOL

I see that you are true to your opinions, and bought it without critically listening or comparing to other models ..

That was an assumption on your part. However, not true. And I do read and value other's opinions. But, fortunatly for me, I am at a financial position in life where I can afford to make my own mistakes instead of someone else's. :E

How should we interpret your upcoming comments on them? What is the acoustic layout and room treatment of your listening environment?.

If you were in America, you could interpret them any way you chose....is that the case in France, or are there different customs???...LOL

I'll give sufficient information on room acoustics at the time I make comments on the product...just like I always do.

Don't get me wrong, your opinions are wanted and awaited, but I'm just not sure what you expect us to do with them. ..

Whatever you want. Nobody's forcing you to read them in France...are they????


P.S. There are three things I enjoy about my gear, buying it. Listening to it and talking about it. None of the above is to be taken too seriously....just some Friday Night fun from Florida :T

[tdiciple]

Hi Jerry,

Nice Rebuttal against csuzor. LOL :lol:

BTW, You look like my math professor back when I was in University long time ago. Are you in education arena?

[RebelMan]

Nice Rebuttal against csuzor. LOL :lol:

tdiciple, Christophe's input into this forum has been helpful to many and he values the opinons of other's. Although he may not always agree, he is respectful about it. He also has a good sense of toung and cheek humor but I think his message to Jerry was constructively poingnant.

[tdiciple]

My message are not meant to discredit Christope in anyway. I am just saying that I agree with what Jerry is saying in his last post; especially this statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by csuzor
Don't get me wrong, your opinions are wanted and awaited, but I'm just not sure what you expect us to do with them. ..

Whatever you want. Nobody's forcing you to read them in France...are they????

Fred

[DrJRapp]

Hi Jerry,

Nice Rebuttal against csuzor. LOL :lol:

BTW, You look like my math professor back when I was in University long time ago. Are you in education arena?

Yes, amongst the many things I do I am an instructor of several engineering subjects at FAU. I don't teach much any more, not enough time.

Although I appreciate your comment about my rebuttal, I felt sorry to have to do it. These forums are about our enjoyment of the hobby, not about a battle of wits. There are some members such as Csuzor and RebleMan that just don't "get it", much in the way that the technical aspects of some of my discussions are beyond their grasp, so they make fun of it. As I said before, there are three things I enjoy about this hobby...buying the stuff, listening to the stuff and talking about the stuff. I'm here for my own enjoyment, not to "spread the word". If others happen to benifit from what I have to say, that is serendipitous.

[grit]

P.S. There are three things I enjoy about my gear, buying it. Listening to it and talking about it. None of the above is to be taken too seriously....just some Friday Night fun from Florida :T

Well put!

[RebelMan]

There are some members such as Csuzor and RebleMan that just don't "get it", much in the way that the technical aspects of some of my discussions are beyond their grasp, so they make fun of it.

There's nothing to get when you've already got it. Just kidding. :lol: Jerry just needs to lighten up a bit and stop feeling intellectually threatened when someone offers an opinion that differs from his.

I'm here for my own enjoyment, not to "spread the word".

I believe we are all here for the enjoyment of it. But let's be honest, any comment is spreading some kind of word.

[Lestat]

I see that you are true to your opinions, and bought it without critically listening or comparing to other models or asking for other's reviews, because room acoustics would have made them sound better or worse elsewhere.

Why would you ASSume that he bought the speakers without listening to them? Has he said so at some point?
As for asking for other's reviews, who gives a damn what others think, really? It's a subjective matter, if he doesn't like a speaker it doesn't really matter that everyone else thinks it's great, unless you are the type who buys what others have instead of what YOU like.

Now, is there any reason we can't get back to talking about the point of the thread, the XT4's, instead of having virtual pissing matches?

FWIW, I'm getting mine in on tuesday, and I'll chime in with a short description of how I like them - if anyone wants user reviews.

L.

[DrJRapp]

FWIW, I'm getting mine in on tuesday, and I'll chime in with a short description of how I like them - if anyone wants user reviews.

L.

I for one would love to hear your comments.

[GregLett]

so Jerry... How are they so far? Since I have about two weeks to go to get mine, I'm dying to read your comments. :B

[csuzor]

Guys, no harm meant nor taken. I am sure Jerry understood my humour, and responded with some of his. My post was written in jest because of the response from Jerry to Rebelman's experience on the Rotel 1077 thread.

I am waiting to hear Jerry's, and anyone else's, opinions on the XT4. A comparison with 7xx would be appropriate for me too.

I like this site, I don't get offended, and I help or offer advice where I can.

So, how about it, how do the XT4 sound? How did they sound before you bought them? And now in your home?

PS.

There are some members such as Csuzor and RebleMan that just don't "get it", much in the way that the technical aspects of some of my discussions are beyond their grasp, so they make fun of it.

I haven't seen anything technical in your posts I didn't understand, and between intellectual engineers, we may have different specialties but probably no lesser capability.

[DrJRapp]

The first album I played the other day was Sarah Brightman's "Harem". I replayed that this morning (in fact t is still playing as I write). The XTs have loosened up quite a bit since new. The have become more dynamic and the treble is opening up. I'm not sure they are all the way there yet.

I think the XT4s will do a fine job in my study/library which is 13x16 with a 10' ceiling but they sound a bit on the thin side while trying to fill my 20x36x10 family room. The room is heavily refelective because it has a lot of glass and a marble floor. This is balanced off by the fact that there is a double door to on side right where the (left chanel) 1st modal reflection would normally occur, and on the opposite side has a large DVD wall rack that acts as a diffuser where the right speaker 1st modal would happen. The rear opens to the rest of the house so there is very little sound reinforcent from rear wall reflections. The result is a room that is neither to bright nor too damped. The room is far from perfect, but not too bad either. With some work it is possible to get good speaker and room response. In this room the XT4s get plenty loud, just not very full. I wouldn't expect more from a speaker with only 5" woofers (x2) The highs are clear, but there is none of the alleged "brightness" that B&Ws seem to be known for. However, to me the top end seems to lack "air".

I want to comment on the physical design and setup experience. The construction is superb, but the people who packed these things for shipping seem to be lacking. One of the speakers had obviously been dragged across a concrete floor. The bottom had deep parallel scratches. The other was missing parts from the bubble pack. Three of the four carpet spikes were not in the buble wrap container (and the container was still sealed). This has turned into a minor problem as I will soon note.

I don't really like the design of the speaker bottoms. They have outriggers, but the outriggers are used only for use with carpet. For wood or tile (or any other hard surface) B&W suppies small rubber dots that get stuck into small recesses in the bottom of the speakers. Now, rememebring that this speaker is tall and thin, it tends to be unsatable with only the dots due to it's very small footprint. It is unstable even though the center of gravity is very low. I feel the speaker could easily be knocked over by an unsuspecting someone like my housekeeper. So, what I have done is to attach the outriggers and the carpet spikes to one of the speakers (can't do the other since 3 spikes are missing!),and placed it on a very small carpet floor mat. It makes everything much more stable. To solve the stability issue B&W just needs to make rubber tips for the spikes so that the outriggers can be used on hard floors. Meanwhile I'm going to try to find something that fits.

[GregLett]

bummer on the spikes That would annoy me. I like my speakers on a hard surface, I think they sound better. I used a piece of 12x12 tile on my carpet,
I'm planning on replacing it with granite.

[ZX10 Guy]

Use pennies under each spike or a set of these: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...sp?sku=QUADQS4

I have a set of those from audioadvisor and they work great. I don't like using pennies as they look ghetto.

[PewterTA]

Jerry, contact B&W, my friend had spikes missing from his 603s when he got them (I think the store he bought them from misplaced them, not B&Ws fault), well he contacted B&W and they sent him 8 replacement spikes for free and he got them in like three days...

I was really surprised about that. Top notch customer service from B&W. I don't think they even asked him where or when he got them (though not positive of that)...

[csuzor]

To solve the stability issue B&W just needs to make rubber tips for the spikes so that the outriggers can be used on hard floors.

I am surprised they did not include the rubber screw-in feet with the speakers. There were spikes and rubber feet, both with screws, in all my 7xx boxes. Sounds like that could be a good solution, but as noted by others, I found that making a hard floor connection gives a firmer bass than the rubber feet, so the spikes + protective disks may be the best option (sound and stability).

[DrJRapp]

I am surprised they did not include the rubber screw-in feet with the speakers.

Me Too. It's not like these were an economy set of speakers at $2500.00 US

the spikes + protective disks may be the best option (sound and stability).

I tend to agree with that, however, I developed another solution while out today at the flooring store. I've decided that the floor of my study/library is going to be cork. Cork has decent acoustical properties and at the same time wears well enough under a rolling chair. The spikes should work just fine with cork. Now all I have to do is call B&W for the spikes.

[ZX10 Guy]

You should also contact your dealer. Your dealer should be able to give you a set immediately if they have extras which I would assume most do as I haven't seen many dealers install spikes on their showroom demo speakers. I got a set of dealer demo speakers when my local dealer was clearing out the Nautilus speakers. My N804s didn't come with the spike kits. My dealer got me a set without charging me. They're also getting me a set of replacement grills as the cloth is torn on the edges of the grills I have with them now.

[Lestat]

Guys, no harm meant nor taken. I am sure Jerry understood my humour, and responded with some of his. My post was written in jest because of the response from Jerry to Rebelman's experience on the Rotel 1077 thread.

In that case, sorry for my outburst. As a new member, it wasn't immediately obvious that it was humor. (Perhaps a smilie would help? )

L.

[DrJRapp]

More Comments

B&W speakers are known for their soundstage and imaging and the XT4 should not be an exception. After spending about an hour fiddling around finding the best location in my room for them, I sat down with two discs with great soundstage and imaging...Holly Cole Trio "Don't Smoke in Bed", and PF Dark Sde of the Moon (1992 release). The image the XT4s create is almost uncanny for a speaker of their size, they certainly don't dissapoint in that respect. I just suspect that most people who will buy this speaker are doing so because they are more concerned about it's appearance than it's sound (ultimatly I'm one of those, in this particular case), and the XT4 won't wind up in it's best location for imaging. And imaging seems to be one of it's strong suits.

The XT4 comes with 2 foam plugs for the bass ports. Fortunatly, from owning SVS subs I am familiar with the function of those plugs tuning the bass ports for either strength or extension. I say fortunatly, because the XT4 owners manual doesn't explain their use very well. In fact all they have is three small drawings with graphs and a very brief explanation in some impossibly fine print that my 58 yo eyes can't read even with my reading glasses..lol Even as an engineer, without prior knowledge of the plug's use, I wouldn't have intuitively known what they were for. Hopefull, that is where your B&W dealer would useful.

One area of concern, and I'm waiting till Greg or someone else gets their XT4s to comment. I have heard (and experienced on a limited basis during more than one audition) almost universally about B&W characteristic "brightness", almost to the point of being a fault. The XT4s if anything are dulled out on the top end. Female vocals that are extensively silibant; on my Klipsch, most other demo systems I have heard, and even on the high end Alpine sound system in my car are not on the XT4s. Musical instuments that normally have a lot of "air" around them such as ochestral bells, cymbals, upper piano registers, etc. lack that air. The speakers sound really good, definitly enjoy them playing in the background but there just seems to be something missing on the top end by comparison to my (similarly priced, but much larger) RF7s. The XT4s sound like speakers, they never seem to dissapear. Female vocals especially seem to lack that "live" feeling. Perhaps this is due to their restricted size, perhaps not. Later in the week I'm going to pull down my RB15s (Small bookshelves) from the master bedroom sit them on stands next to the XT4 and compare what I am hearing.

Also, the XT4 aren't extremely dynamic. All music seems a bit compressed by comparison to my normal frame of reference. Not a lot, but enough to be noticable. This, once again could be a function of their size.

[Indytown]

B&W speakers are known for their soundstage and imaging and the XT4 should not be an exception. After spending about an hour fiddling around finding the best location in my room for them, I sat down with two discs with great soundstage and imaging...Holly Cole Trio "Don't Smoke in Bed", and PF Dark Sde of the Moon (1992 release). The image the XT4s create is almost uncanny for a speaker of their size, they certainly don't dissapoint in that respect. I just suspect that most people who will buy this speaker are doing so because they are more concerned about it's appearance than it's sound (ultimatly I'm one of those, in this particular case), and the XT4 won't wind up in it's best location for imaging. And imaging seems to be one of it's strong suits.

The XT4 comes with 2 foam plugs for the bass ports. Fortunatly, from owning SVS subs I am familiar with the function of those plugs tuning the bass ports for either strength or extension. I say fortunatly, because the XT4 owners manual doesn't explain their use very well. In fact all they have is three small drawings with graphs and a very brief explanation in some impossibly fine print that my 58 yo eyes can't read even with my reading glasses..lol Even as an engineer, without prior knowledge of the plug's use, I wouldn't have intuitively known what they were for. Hopefull, that is where your B&W dealer would useful.

One area of concern, and I'm waiting till Greg or someone else gets their XT4s to comment. I have heard (and experienced on a limited basis during more than one audition) almost universally about B&W characteristic "brightness", almost to the point of being a fault. The XT4s if anything are dulled out on the top end. Female vocals that are extensively silibant; on my Klipsch, most other demo systems I have heard, and even on the high end Alpine sound system in my car are not on the XT4s. Musical instuments that normally have a lot of "air" around them such as ochestral bells, cymbals, upper piano registers, etc. lack that air. The speakers sound really good, definitly enjoy them playing in the background but there just seems to be something missing on the top end by comparison to my (similarly priced, but much larger) RF7s. The XT4s sound like speakers, they never seem to dissapear. Female vocals especially seem to lack that "live" feeling. Perhaps this is due to their restricted size, perhaps not. Later in the week I'm going to pull down my RB15s (Small bookshelves) from the master bedroom sit them on stands next to the XT4 and compare what I am hearing.

Also, the XT4 aren't extremely dynamic. All music seems a bit compressed by comparison to my normal frame of reference. Not a lot, but enough to be noticable. This, once again could be a function of their size.

Could be the amp your using in creating more top end "air"? you also went from metal drivers to another material.

[DrJRapp]

Could be the amp your using in creating more top end "air"? you also went from metal drivers to another material.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Besides, the RF7s and the XT4s are running off the same amp. Just for kicks, I'll throw the RB 1080 on later today (that's the amp I'll ultimatly be using with the XT4s). The "air" I'm taling about is easily recognizable and has been characteristic of my systems for nearly 20 years with a variety of speakers and amps.

I went from Titanium drivers to Aluminum drivers, both metal, but distincly different sound. There is definitly something missing on the top end. While I am in a the comparison mode, there is a 20 year old pair of JBL bookshelves with aluminum dome tweeters in my warehouse to compare.

I just played a very revealing cut from the David Benoit album entitled Orchestral Stories. This is an album I got just last week. In the first few moments of the first cut (which is his tribute to 911) there is a cascade of orchestral bells that are poinient and beautiful and set the mood for the whole piece. With the XT4s they are barely there, as if they were half a mile distant so one has to listen very closely to even detect their presence. Either something is awry with this pair of XT4s or they have been designed to cut off at a frequency that is effecting the extreme high end.

My wife (she's the one with the golden ears) also says there is something missing. Pehaps on;ly 48 hours break in isn't enough....continuing.

[PewterTA]

The XT4, like all B&W speakers, from talking with the dealer I always work with, said that they need the typical 150-300 hours on them before they really open up. Though I'm not necessarily sure if that will create the live-airy feel to the speakers that you are wanting, normally that's a little more in the bass region.

[Indytown]

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Besides, the RF7s and the XT4s are running off the same amp. Just for kicks, I'll throw the RB 1080 on later today (that's the amp I'll ultimatly be using with the XT4s). The "air" I'm taling about is easily recognizable and has been characteristic of my systems for nearly 20 years with a variety of speakers and amps.

I went from Titanium drivers to Aluminum drivers, both metal, but distincly different sound. There is definitly something missing on the top end. While I am in a the comparison mode, there is a 20 year old pair of JBL bookshelves with aluminum dome tweeters in my warehouse to compare.

I just played a very revealing cut from the David Benoit album entitled Orchestral Stories. This is an album I got just last week. In the first few moments of the first cut (which is his tribute to 911) there is a cascade of orchestral bells that are poinient and beautiful and set the mood for the whole piece. With the XT4s they are barely there, as if they were half a mile distant so one has to listen very closely to even detect their presence. Either something is awry with this pair of XT4s or they have been designed to cut off at a frequency that is effecting the extreme high end.

My wife (she's the one with the golden ears) also says there is something missing. Pehaps on;ly 48 hours break in isn't enough....continuing.

Do you have the right SPL level from your sitting area (75) with the new speakers?

I would give them at least 100 to 150 hrs. to break-in then make a decision. I remember my old set of Monitor Audio GR60's didn't open up or sound right for at least 150hrs. of continuous use. I actually let them play facing each other, about 1/8 inch away from one another, one speaker out of phase. After 6 days they sounded very good. After that point they continued to get better.

I also realized that after break-in, lighting them up (not in clippind mode) for an extended period of time to move the drivers made them sound better at lower volumes. Light them up and leave the house for a few hours, press replay on a older player you may have after break-in.

I also, recall few years back I was at a dealers showroom and was listening to some Paradiagm 100 towers. They had that closed in sound with no emphasis on bells, triangles, etc. He switched out amps, to a Naim and there it was.

Hope things work out for you with the XT4's.

Indy

[csuzor]

I think there could be something real in your observations (but not a high-frequency cut-off, that would be highly unlikely). The Tweeter in the XT4 is simililar (if not exactly the same) to the 7xx series, and when I listen to the 8xx series my immediate response is: wow, I can hear the tweeter, it is so metallic! (even more so with the N8xx than with the 8xxS).

I found silver coated Cu cables made a very big difference on the 7xx tweeter, allowing them to reproduce the cymbals and bells with much more realism and clarity. And when I bi-ampped, initially I used these cables for the bass, and Cu for the mid-highs... bad choice... when I put the silver coated cables back on the mid-highs, the tweeter was even better than it used to be. I have a reference song where the drummer is "scratching" the cymbals, and I had never heard it like that before.

I conclude, the tweeter is well integrated with the mid in the 7xx, but has fragile response, so give it the best signal you can. Same for XT4?

[Lestat]

Could you elaborate on using the foam plugs to tune the bassport? You said the manual was vague about it.

L.

[DrJRapp]

Could you elaborate on using the foam plugs to tune the bassport? You said the manual was vague about it.

L.

Yes, it is. With both plugs out one gets the loudest bass response but it doesn't dig very deep. Add one plug and response under 100Hz drops by about 1-2db, but the response extends lower by about 5 hz. Add the second plug and response drops another 1-2 db and digs about 5hz lower even. Which you use is dependent on a number of things, none the least is your room response (I'm not even gonna get started there!!!).

Chris.... I am using silver coated cables and unfortunatly the XT4 isn't set up for bi-wire. I'm beginning to get the impression that the XT4 was intended to be the B&W "everyman's" speaker and not really aimed at audiophiles. It seemsto make every disc I have sound good, even some pretty bad ones, but all the great discs just sound good too, not spectacular. I really think there is a lot more breakin required because of the lack of dynamics. Unfortunatly, yesterday I only got to play them at low/moderate levels (62-70) most of the day because we had family over. My wife turned the system off this morning because our daughter is sick. So far I've only got about 60 hours on them.

[GregLett]

I'll take good over spectacular, for $2,500 Jerry I think the'll open up some more with more playing time.

[GregLett]

Just ordered my XT4's, should have it by next Friday I hope :B

[RobP]

I went to my dealer tonight to pick up my new ML sub, and they had the XT4s hooked up, Wow, what a great little speaker! Its amazing how much clean bass they put out.The mids are a little beamy, but heck for what they are they sure outperformed my expectations!

[monk_d_syple]

So are you gonna give us a look? Pics please.

Cheers

[RobP]

You talkin to me Monk?

[monk_d_syple]

No. To who ever started the thread. Actually anyone who has XT4s.

[RobP]

Ahh ok, Thanks Monk!

[GregLett]

Can't figure out how to post pictures. But I updated my Avatar. Picked up my XT4's today :B

[DrJRapp]

No. To who ever started the thread. Actually anyone who has XT4s.

The room that my XT4s will live in is almost ready. Pics will come soon. Probably next week.

[RobP]

How are they coming along Jerry? breaking in well?

[DrJRapp]

Not really, swapped them out for my regular mains. I'll break um in more when the get installed in the room they will live in. The room I was using is way too large (7000+ cu ft) for them to sound their best.